ISKCON UK 'does not' promote Narayana Maharaja

[Guest guest]

> Dear Prabhus, Hare Krsna. PAMHO. AG 2 SP.

>

> In an amazing about turn, the temple authorities at

> Bhaktivedanta Manor have facilitated HH Narayana Maharaja, on

> his current UK tour. This action constitutes an amazing

> flip-flop, in that the followers of Narayana Maharaja were

> banned from even entering the Manor, with prominent notices to

> that effect posted up in the temple.

 

Try to get your facts right. Narayana Maharaja disciples are not

banned from the Manor, they get banned only if they proselyitize

in the Manor. This is a fair policy.

 

> However Narayana Maharaja

> has now been allowed to hold a program in Srila Prabhupada's

> personal quarters, which were packed out to the rafters with

> ISKCON members and outsiders alike. Many came out commenting

> on the significance of Narayana Maharaja preaching sitting

> next to Srila Prabhupada, in Srila Prabhupada's own room.

> Narayana Maharaja commented during the meeting, looking at

> Srila Prabhupada's murti, that Srila Prabhupada is smiling.

> This series of events convinced many that therefore Srila

> Prabhupada must be speaking through Narayana Maharaja.

 

Srila Prabhupada said that he speaks through the GBC; he never

said anything about speaking through Narayana Maharaja. Your

text is calculating and misleading.

 

> This has led to a civil war breaking out around the Manor,

> with one group of ISKCON supporters going so far as stating

> that the 'Manor is in maya' for not preventing Narayana

> Maharaja from holding a program there.

 

> It has also confirmed

> for many the long held suspicion that many in positions of

> power in ISKCON are sympathetic to Narayana Maharaja.

 

Prove it or wthdraw it.

 

> Indeed one such well-known convert here in the UK is Jagattam

> Dasi, a Former Bhaktin leader, and one of the most senior

> female devotees in the UK yatra. She is openly preaching the

> glories of HH Narayana Maharaja, and recently went on Narayana

> Maharaja's tour of Holland. Ironically Mother Jagattam is also

> the wife of Ajamila das, another leader in the UK, who had

> recently been selected to represent the GBC in the recent

> debate on CHAKRA. Maybe it is just a coincidence that the

> person who turned a blind eye to Narayana Maharaja's program,

> Manor temple president, HH Vipramukhya Swami, is also the

> editor of CHAKRA. This had led some to comment that Ajamila

> would be better off preaching closer to home, rather than

> trying to take on all the ritviks half-way across the world.

> Evidently Ajamila's strong arguments in support of the GBC

> have not even convinced his own wife.

 

My wife attended the Narayana Maharaja programmes mainly because

her friends got deeply involved. She says she is checking it

out. I can't force her to follow me 100% in my loyalty to

ISKCON. The question arises: Will Narayana Maharaja tell her to

follow her husband's loyalty to ISKCON? We shall see what is the

result of NM's influence.

 

> It appears that Ajamila

> and Vipramukhya are reaping the benefits of preaching the

> 'living (physically present) guru' philosophy - which states

> that Srila Prabhupada's guidance alone is insufficient.

 

Your cynical tone here is policitcal, indicating intent to

provacate. This is not Vaisnava.

 

> Naturally they should not be surprised when people flock to

> that person whom they perceive as being the most attractive

> physically present Guru on the planet.

 

That NM is the most attractive 'physically present Guru on the

planet' is only your opinion. My opinion is that 100 Narayana

Maharajas do not equal even one Prabhuvisnu Swami, or one

Satsvarupa Maharaja, and many other truly excellent ISKCON

gurus. But that is only my opinion too. But it is an apoinion

that is largely shared by around 15,000 disciples of the eighty

or so ISKCON gurus.

 

You are entitled to your opinion but please don't shuv it down

the throats of us who are unwilling as the fanatical Ritivks do.

 

> Indeed so strong is

> their message for the 'physically present' Guru, that even

> Prabhupada disciples, whom the GBC claim have an 'exemption

> clause' from the need for a 'physically present' Guru, have

> also been drawn to the need for such a 'physically present'

> Guru. It seems that they have bought the GBC arguments that

> such a Guru is needed, but not bought the arbitary 'exemption

> clause'.

 

I and many other disciples of Srila Prabhupada are more than

100% confident that we can -- without Narayana Maharaja --

attain the highest destination in this very lifetime, with all

required rasas too.

 

Your insinutation that nobody in ISKCON can make it without

Narayana Maharaja is impudent.

 

> Vipramukhya Swami has tried to dissipate the furore following

> the program by claiming that he was powerless to act since

> Narayana Maharaja's group forcibly took over the Manor.

> However no one is buying such a patethic excuse since

> Vipramukhya Swami has not displayed such weakness when ritviks

> are concerned, who are still banned from the Manor by HH

> Vipramukhya Swami, and indeed are immediately escorted from

> the Manor by the Police.

 

H.H. Vipramukhya Maharaja rightly follows the GBC policy that NM

not be allowed to speak in ISKCON temples since NM's preaching

breaches the ISKCON policy of repeating only what Srila

Prabhupada has taught us. Vipramukhya Maharaja himself agrees

with this policy. Again you got your facts wrong.

 

> This is just the latest in a series of incidents that is

> confirming for many, that the merger of the various Gaudiya

> Matha branches and ISKCON, possibly with Narayana Maharaja as

> the acarya, is not far away.

 

Srila Prabhupada said that the BIG mistake the GM made after the

disappearance of SBST was that they APPOINTED an acarya against

implicit instructions not to do so. Srila Prabhupada said this

destroyed the GM. Now you are saying that we should "appoint" NM

as the acarya of ISKCON. I say you are a fool. If we follow your

foolish forbidden idea ISKCON will be destroyed.

 

> With huge attrition from ISKCON's

> ranks to the Gaudiya Matha, it seems that ISKCON have realised

> that a policy of co-operation with the Gaudiya Matha, will

> actually be mutually beneficial.

 

ISKCON does not say that. Prove it. You are being childish and

foolish.

 

> The scenario that some have

> proposed is that ISKCON gurus continue to give diksa, with

> Narayana Maharaja installed as a prominent siksa Guru.

 

Name even one single ISKCON leader or regular devotee who holds

NM as 'a prominent siksa Guru' over Srila Prabhupada. Again you

are ranting foolishly.

 

> This

> would allow the ISKCON gurus to keep their status and money,

> rather than losing them altogether, as is happening now, once

> persons seek shelter from Narayna Maharaja, and other Gaudiya

> vaisnavas. This 'siksa-guru' proposal has already been

> floated, ironically by former rasika bhava disciples of

> Naryana Maharaja, though the proposals only lay out the

> groundwork for greater emphasis on 'living siksa' over and

> above diksa, and very cleverly do not allude at all to the

> Gaudiya Matha.

 

Among ISKCON's eighty or so gurus you can get the best siksa. In

fact any ISKCON devotee who is totally devoted to pushing on

purely Srila Prabhupada's movement is a worthy living siksa

guru. I for one will take the dust of their lotus feet and

sprinkle it upon my head because such a devotee is completely

blessed by Srila Prabhupada. ISKCON doesn't need to IMPORT siksa

gurus, that is the way Srila Prabhupada wnanted it. ISKCON is

complete and wonderfully self-generating, and the best is yet to

come.

 

> We have also already seen the close co-operation between the

> GBC and the Gaudiya Matha over the IRG court case.

 

Just because a relative does a favour for a relative it does not

mean he can use that as a licence to taker over that family.

 

> Indeed a

> merger would make sense since they are very well matched in

> their disdain for the IRG position that Srila Prabhupada is

> the only Guru. We also saw how HH Tripurari Maharaja gave the

> main address at the recent annual BBT meeting, where he was

> applauded for his call that the BBT print books from other

> Gaudiya vaisnavas besides Srila Prabhupada. And of course we

> already know that the most senior men in ISKCON were for many

> years taking rasika bhava lessons from Narayana Maharaja,

> though they now appear to have externally renounced their

> former guru, to hold onto their positions in ISKCON.

 

As H.H. Tamal Krishna Goswami explained in an isthagosthi at the

Manor a few years ago, he discontinued his relationship with NM

because it was taling him away from Srila Prabhupada. Again you

are uninformed and yet you specualte.

 

> It will be interesting to see what further repercussions ensue

> from the rigorous preaching of the 'living guru physically

> present philosophy' promoted by Ajamila and the GBC.

 

Yes ISKCON has an abundance of living diksa and siksa gurus

among who you'll find the best on the planet. No need for any

unauthorised imports.

 

> Ys, Chandra

 

ys

 

ada

[Guest guest]

Dear Ajamila prabhu,

 

please accept my humble obeisances.All glories to Shrila Prbahupada.

 

>That NM is the most attractive 'physically present Guru on the

>planet' is only your opinion. My opinion is that 100 Narayana

>Maharajas do not equal even one Prabhuvisnu Swami, or one

>Satsvarupa Maharaja, and many other truly excellent ISKCON

>gurus. But that is only my opinion too. But it is an apoinion

>that is largely shared by around 15,000 disciples of the eighty

>or so ISKCON gurus.

 

I agree.Vaishnavas are attractive to me because of their service.

And all the ISKCON devotees you have cited above have excellent track

records of service to their spiritual master.They have opened hundreds of

centres,made thousands of devotees,distributed millions of books between

them.This is significant service.Why do some people think that because some

who talks of rasa all the time is necessarily more advanced than these great

souls.It appears to me that devotees who are attracted to this sort of thing

are very sentimental.

There is nothing missing in ISKCON in the philosophy departmant and all the

nectar is there for any sincere soul who is prepared to get absorbed in his

or her rounds reading and service.There are NO SHORT-CUTS TO BHAVA.PUT YOUR

HAND IN YOUR BEAD-BAG,AND GET INTO WHATEVER SERVICE YOU HAVE AND THEN YOU'LL

SEE THE NECTAR FLOWING.I preach to myself more than anyone.

 

>Your insinutation that nobody in ISKCON can make it without

>Narayana Maharaja is impudent.

 

>H.H. Vipramukhya Maharaja rightly follows the GBC policy that NM

>not be allowed to speak in ISKCON temples since NM's preaching

>breaches the ISKCON policy of repeating only what Srila

>Prabhupada has taught us.

 

And this is EXACTLY why we cannot take shiksha from Narayan Maharaj - he

differs too much from Prbahupada in terms of Philosophy and mood.

 

> > This is just the latest in a series of incidents that is

> > confirming for many, that the merger of the various Gaudiya

> > Matha branches and ISKCON, possibly with Narayana Maharaja as

> > the acarya, is not far away.

>

>Srila Prabhupada said that the BIG mistake the GM made after the

>disappearance of SBST was that they APPOINTED an acarya against

>implicit instructions not to do so. Srila Prabhupada said this

>destroyed the GM. Now you are saying that we should "appoint" NM

>as the acarya of ISKCON. I say you are a fool. If we follow your

>foolish forbidden idea ISKCON will be destroyed.

 

>Among ISKCON's eighty or so gurus you can get the best siksa. In

>fact any ISKCON devotee who is totally devoted to pushing on

>purely Srila Prabhupada's movement is a worthy living siksa

>guru.

 

I completely agree.Any bhakta who follows faithfully the order of his bhakta

leader or temple commander will get the full blessings of Shrila Prabhupada

and will advance rapidly.I have seen it myself hundreds of times.

Because this society is linked to the powerful preaching mission of Lord

Caitanya and his authorised devotee ANYONE who is PLUGGED IN can get ALL the

mercy and nectar and advnacment that they want and deserve.Just look at our

dear Jayananda prabhu who is no longer with us or great devotees like

Harinamananda prabhu, or as you have mentioned,Jananivas prabhu.There are

many more souls simply absorbed in the samadhi of their service and we all

know where they are going at the end of this life.

 

>I for one will take the dust of their lotus feet and

>sprinkle it upon my head because such a devotee is completely

>blessed by Srila Prabhupada. ISKCON doesn't need to IMPORT siksa

>gurus, that is the way Srila Prabhupada wnanted it. ISKCON is

>complete and wonderfully self-generating, and the best is yet to

>come.

 

I love it and it's true.Look out world you ain't seen nothin' yet!We are a

young society learning to cope with the disappearance of our founder who

tried to cram thousands of new ideas into 12 short years into the heads of

many young and often not-yet-fully-mature people.

Our leaders were and still are learning but because they are,by and

large,sincere in trying to follow his divine grace I feel as you say the

best is yet to come.

>

>As H.H. Tamal Krishna Goswami explained in an isthagosthi at the

>Manor a few years ago, he discontinued his relationship with NM

>because it was taling him away from Srila Prabhupada. Again you

>are uninformed and yet you specualte.

 

Some of our devotees in ISKCON have already gotten heavily involved with

Narayan Maharaj, even some big leaders,but they have seen it does them no

good in helping to fulfill the order of their guru,Shrila Prabhupada.So

devotees should try to learn from this experience and not go thru the same

experimental process that is again sure to fail.

 

>Yes ISKCON has an abundance of living diksa and siksa gurus

>among who you'll find the best on the planet. No need for any

>unauthorised imports.

 

Exactly.Taking shiksha outside ISKCON is not authorised.Shrila Prbahupada

has expressly warned us about getting too involved with the Gaudiya Math.Why

do devotees continue to do so?Do they not care for Shrila Prabhupada's

insructions?It would seem so.I would like Chandra prabhu to answer this

question.I can personally send anyone Prabhupada's letter in which he

advises non-involement with the GM and goes on to say that the latter would

merely confuse and disrupt our society.What part of this does Chandra prabhu

not understand??

 

YOur servant and nephew,

 

Nitaicandra das

 

 

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