Interpretation is at the heart of the ritvik controversy.

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> > > > > > "In our vaisnava society, Vedic authority has been seriously

> > > > > > compromised by an unshastric apotheosis of Srila Prabhupada.

> > > > > > Most people in our society are willing to accept a conclusion

> > > > > > based solely on Srila Prabhuapda's words without bothering to

> > > > > > insist that the conclusion be supported by sastra or the words

> > > > > > of previous acaryas.

 

 

 

Krishna Kirti Prabhu uses the word "apotheosis", my dictionary defines that

word as: 1)elevation to divine status; deification. 2)glorification of a

thing; sublime example.

 

Prabhu you really trying to tell us that the "apotheosis" of Srila

Prabhupada is unshastric, and by doing so we seriously compromise Vedic

authority?

 

How about the verse from the Eleventh Canto where Lord Sri Krishna says:

 

acaryam mam vijaniyan

navamanyeta karhicit

na martya-buddhyasuyeta

sarva-devamayo guruh

 

"One should know the acarya as Myself and never disrespect him in any way,

One should not envy him, thinking him an ordinary man, for he is the

representative of all the demigods."

 

It certainly seems as if Lord Krishna is being quite "apotheosis" in his

discription of the acarya. I don't think there is a question of Srila

Prabhupada not fitting Lord Krishna's discription of an acarya, is there?

 

 

> > > We often encounter some idea, and the author will say, "I am not

> > > saying it, Srila Prabhupada is saying it!" But as soon as we say,

> > > "Srila Prabhupada said, Vyasa said, etc.", we are offering an

> > > INTERPRETATION of what is said. In fact, you can't really read or hear

> > > something without interpreting it. Understanding something necessarily

> > > means interpreting the words, sounds, pictures, ink on the page, etc.

> > > from which we draw our understanding. That is why we have to check

> > > ideas not only against guru, but sadhu and shastra as well to see that

> > > as far as possible our INTERPRETATION of guru's instructions is

> > > correct.

> > >

> > > ys KKdas

 

 

 

> > But if Krsna says: dehino smin..., and Srila Prabhupada says (just

> > repeating) you are not this body but soul, and i preach you are not this

> > body but soul - then where is interpretation? I say :Prabhupada SAID you

> > are not this body because Krsna HAS SAID you are soul, amsa. So if i

> > just repeat then where is any INTERPRETATION as you proposed above?

>

> That is why we need a LIVING guru, LIVING saintly people, etc., to help us

> understand.

 

But what if there is no LIVING guru or, or LIVING saintly person that is

able to perfectly present what Srila Prabhupada or the sastra says without

some influence of impure INTERPRETATION?

 

I believe that this was situation that Srila Prabhupada faced before he

departed, that there was no one of his disciples or Godbrothers who was

without some tinge of personal desire, therefore he didn't select any one

person as Acarya, but left us, in essence, an Acarya Board (ie the GBC).

 

> Srila Prabhupada himself stressed so much on attending

> classes on Gita and Bhagavatam, even though he himself was not giving the

> lecture. Why don't we just do away with the Bhagavatam class and put a

> tape of Srila Prabhupada's on? That is how important the association of

> saintly people are, even if they are our godbrothers.

 

This I agree with.

 

> Even the ritviks are not simply understanding Srila Prabhupada's

> instructions as they are--they have taken shelter of the interpretations

> of some office clerk from Birmingham, who himself never accepted a

> spiritual master, never gets up before 6 or 7 a.m., and has the audacity

> to pretend that he knows something about spritual life. The sad thing is

> that so many devotees have been duped by him, but again, this has been

> possible because of a widely pervasive misunderstanding of what

> constitutes proper and improper evidence.

 

The Ritvik movement is in general a political movement, the devotees who

adhere to it are not so much interested in sastric evidence, but in evidence

that the current administration is faulty. The Democratic Party is not

interested in the evidence brought forward by the Republicans. Unfortunately

there has been amble evidence that the GBC and Iskcon gurus have made a

number of blunders.

 

> Sure, a few devotees will stray from the path, but 1 in 3 devotees? (Based

> on polls conducted both on VNN and CHAKRA) Are so many devotees

> insincere?

>

> "We have met the enemy, and he is us!"

>

> Conclusion: if we really want to stop ritvik once and for all, we have to

> remove its root causes. This misunderstanding about Srila Prabhupada's

> position and the status of his words are one of the roots of ritvik.

> Please note that in 1989/1990, the GBC did move to quash ritvik.

> Obviously, they did not remove its root; just like a weed--if you don't

> remove its root, it will surely grow back. And that, it did.

>

> ys KKdas

 

I appreciate that Krishna Kirti Prabhu has been a leader in confronting the

deviant Ritvik philosophy, and for this he is certainly due great credit.

However if we are to find some common ground with them we have to admit

where they are right.

 

When Satvarupa Maharaja asked Srila Prabhupada how initiations would be

conducted after his dissapearence Srila Prabhupada responded that I will

appoint some of you as "officiating acarayas". Did Prabhupada not know what

he was saying? I believe he did want his disciples to be officiating gurus

not the full fledged type that are mostly discribed in our literature.

 

So in a sense he did want us to be Ritviks, but on behalf of who? Not on

behalf of Srila Prabhupada as the Ritviks wrongly assume, but on behalf of

the "Acarya Board" the GBC. This year the GBC in their meeting in Mayapur,

without using the words that I have used here, have said basicly the same

thing.

 

Unfortunately it is probably too late to reach a compromise with our Ritvik

friends, especially as they are so much influenced by this imposter KK

Desai.

 

Ys TS