Self-effulgent acarya is very rare but is bound to manifest

[Guest guest]

> > I believe that this was situation that Srila Prabhupada faced before he

> > departed, that there was no one of his disciples or Godbrothers who was

> > without some tinge of personal desire, therefore he didn't select any

> > one person as Acarya, but left us, in essence, an Acarya Board (ie the

> > GBC).

 

> > Prabhupada once told me that the problem with the Gaudiya Math was that

> > they were always trying to create the perfect man but you cannot create

> > the perfect man and therefore I have this GBC.

 

Trivikrama Maharaja is right in saying that Prabhupada at that time could'nt

see anyone qualified to become the next acarya so he appointed the GBC.

Because Prabhupada says the same thing for his Guru Maharaj.

 

"If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to

be acarya he would have mentioned." SP to Rupanuga

 

> My question for Samba and the others is what to do if there is no such

> devotee currently active here on the earth planet? It certainly is a real

> possibility given the rarity of such an exalted position.

 

Certainly the unalloyed devotee of the Lord is very very rare. This is

confirmed in the Bhakti Sandarbha 177 and Hari-bhakti-vilasa 10.117:

 

br€hmaŠ€n€m sahasrebhyah satray€ji viiyate

satray€ji-sahasrebhyaƒ sarvaved€nta-p€ragaƒ

sarva-ved€nta-vit-ko˜y€ viŠu-bhakto viiyate

vaiŠav€n€m sahasrebhyah ek€ntyeko viiyate

 

Out of many thousands of brahmanas, one who performs sacrifice for Lord

Visnu is best. Out many thousands of such yajnika-brahmanas one who knows

the meaning of Vedanta is best. But of millions of such vedantists, a

devotee of Visnu is best. And out of THOUSANDS of Visnu bhaktas, one who is

an unalloyed devotee of Visnu is the best.

 

So if the self-effulgent acarya is not there at present (which is difficult

to say with conviction unless one is on that platform), he certainly will

emerge in the near future. This is verified by Prabhupada's words:

 

"Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but

never mentioned an acarya. His idea was acarya was not to be nominated

amongst the governing body. He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the

mission. So his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out

successful and self effulgent acarya would be automatically selected."

--SP to Rupanuga

 

So in a way Prabhupada means that the GBC has to wait & manage the society

till the acarya becomes self-manifest and then he will automatically be

selected.

 

Also the Krsna consciousness movement is going to be spread for the next

10,000 years in every village, town & city of the world by the pure devotees

or acaryas who will purify the entire planet by mantra-upasana (pure

chanting of the Hare Krsna mantra) and by giving others their association

according to Brahma-vaivarta Purana:

 

Text 57

sadyaƒ p™t€ni t…rth€ni sadyaƒ p™taˆ jagattath€

manmaˆtrop€sak€ vipr€ ye maducchibhojinaƒ

 

"It will be the same in the case of pilgrimage sites and the whole world.

Those intelligent worshippers of My mantra who partake My remnants will

purify everything."

 

Text 58

m€meva nityaˆ dhy€yaˆte te mat pr€Š€dhik€ƒ priy€ƒ

tadupasparam€treŠa p™to v€yuca p€vakaƒ

 

"They are more dear to Me than My life, who everyday meditate only on Me.

The air and fire become pure simply even by their indirect touch."

 

Text 59

kaler daa-sahasr€Ši madbhakt€ƒ saˆti bh™-tale

ekavarŠ€ bhaviyaˆti madbhakteu gateu ca

 

"For 10,000 years of Kali such devotees of Mine will fill the whole planet.

After the departure of My devotees there will be only on varna [outcaste]."

 

Ofcourse Prabhupada stays the most prominent founder-acarya, Lord Caitanya's

senapati bhakta for the next 10,000 years.

 

Your servant,

Nayana-ranjana das

[Guest guest]

>

>"If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to

>be acarya he would have mentioned." SP to Rupanuga

>

 

 

We appreciate, at least within ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada as an acarya. We

also appreciate Srila Prabhupada as someone who was always a pure devotee,

and so forth. So if at least for conversations sake, how would that

understanding jive with the idea that no one was qualified as an acarya at

the time of Srila Bhaktisidhanta's departure?

 

Further, even though Srila Prabhupada is accepted as an acarya within

ISKCON, he is not accepted in that same mood by other followers of

Bhaktisidhanta, what to speak of practitioners in the other Vaisnava lines.

While undoubtedly respected, Srila Prabhupada does not hold their faith

exclusively as he does with his followers in ISKCON.

 

I am only bringing this up to point out that the exclusive faith enjoyed by

practitioners within a guru/disciple relationship is also a personal

experience, guided by the principles of guru, sadhu and sastra. I am only

mentioning this to back up the principle that Prabhupada appeared to be

discouraging regarding the appointment of acaryas, and so on.

 

 

>

>"Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but

>never mentioned an acarya. His idea was acarya was not to be nominated

>amongst the governing body. He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the

>mission. So his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out

>successful and self effulgent acarya would be automatically selected."

>--SP to Rupanuga

>

>So in a way Prabhupada means that the GBC has to wait & manage the society

>till the acarya becomes self-manifest and then he will automatically be

>selected.

>

 

 

In the future there may very well be ISKCON devotees who will prove to be

especially empowered. Still, at least in my mind, they should not take the

place of the GBC. I believe such an attempt could prove to be a tremendous

mistake.

 

But on the other hand, if such an especially empowered devotee where to

work within ISKCON, I am sure they would know the appropriate way to handle

such a potentially awkward situation in a manner that is most pleasing to

the Vaisnavas. Still, I am a little reluctant to indulge in a sort of 'wait

for the messiah' mentality. Krsna is more than capable to help as with

whatever help that we may require right now.

 

 

ys,

 

Sthita

[Guest guest]

> So if at least for conversations sake, how would that

> understanding jive with the idea that no one was qualified as an acarya at

> the time of Srila Bhaktisidhanta's departure?

 

We accept that no one was qualified because Prabhupada said that same thing

about his Guru Maharaj. (If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was

qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. SP to Rupanuga)

 

> Further, even though Srila Prabhupada is accepted as an acarya within

> ISKCON, he is not accepted in that same mood by other followers of

> Bhaktisidhanta, what to speak of practitioners in the other Vaisnava

> lines.

 

But still the world knows that he was the self-effulgent acarya. You cannot

deny that. All the genuine followers of Bhaktisiddhanta & other bona-fide

vaisnava sampradayas accept Prabhupada as an acarya.

 

> In the future there may very well be ISKCON devotees who will prove to be

> especially empowered. Still, at least in my mind, they should not take the

> place of the GBC. I believe such an attempt could prove to be a tremendous

> mistake.

 

Being unanimously selected by the GBC as the self-effulgent acarya does not

mean he will replace the GBC but will head the GBC.

 

>

> But on the other hand, if such an especially empowered devotee where to

> work within ISKCON, I am sure they would know the appropriate way to

> handle such a potentially awkward situation in a manner that is most

> pleasing to the Vaisnavas.

 

Why do you an awkward situation? It is the most fortunate situation to get

the association of a maha-bhagavata whether they may be his disciples,

godbrothers, disciples of his godbrothers or well-wishers.

 

>Still, I am a little reluctant to indulge in a

> sort of 'wait for the messiah' mentality. Krsna is more than capable to

> help as with whatever help that we may require right now.

 

Bhaktisiddhanta did not select but decided to wait for the self-effulgent

acarya to manifest and Prabhupada also, so why can't we?

 

Your servant,

Nayana-ranjana das

[Guest guest]

>[Text 2636221 from COM]

>

>> So if at least for conversations sake, how would that

>> understanding jive with the idea that no one was qualified as an acarya at

>> the time of Srila Bhaktisidhanta's departure?

>

>We accept that no one was qualified because Prabhupada said that same thing

>about his Guru Maharaj. (If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was

>qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. SP to Rupanuga)

>

 

 

So how does that jive with our understanding of Prabhupada as someone who

was preminently qualified -- since birth? I am not saying he was or wasn't

qualified, etc. What I am thinking it this situation is more a reflection

of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's practical strategy for pushing on KC.

 

 

 

>> Further, even though Srila Prabhupada is accepted as an acarya within

>> ISKCON, he is not accepted in that same mood by other followers of

>> Bhaktisidhanta, what to speak of practitioners in the other Vaisnava

>> lines.

>

>But still the world knows that he was the self-effulgent acarya. You cannot

>deny that. All the genuine followers of Bhaktisiddhanta & other bona-fide

>vaisnava sampradayas accept Prabhupada as an acarya.

>

 

 

To various degrees, but not to the same degree that we do within ISKCON.

They do not necessarily share the intimacy that we feel for him as his

followers.

 

 

 

 

>> In the future there may very well be ISKCON devotees who will prove to be

>> especially empowered. Still, at least in my mind, they should not take the

>> place of the GBC. I believe such an attempt could prove to be a tremendous

>> mistake.

>

>Being unanimously selected by the GBC as the self-effulgent acarya does not

>mean he will replace the GBC but will head the GBC.

>

>>

>> But on the other hand, if such an especially empowered devotee where to

>> work within ISKCON, I am sure they would know the appropriate way to

>> handle such a potentially awkward situation in a manner that is most

>> pleasing to the Vaisnavas.

>

>Why do you an awkward situation? It is the most fortunate situation to get

>the association of a maha-bhagavata whether they may be his disciples,

>godbrothers, disciples of his godbrothers or well-wishers.

>

 

 

 

If such a situation occurs in a manner that is pleasing and inspiring to

all the devotees, then so be it. But as we all know from our own ISKCON

history, and as previously pointed out by both Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and

Srila Prabhupada, a premature almost messianic precuppation with acard

can often lead to much distasteful and distracting politicing. So I feel

somewhat concerned with what could possibly be an over emphasis on waiting

for the next acarya/messiah.

 

 

 

>

>Bhaktisiddhanta did not select but decided to wait for the self-effulgent

>acarya to manifest and Prabhupada also, so why can't we?

>

 

 

While we can certainly hanker for the association of elevated devotees, our

Krsna conciousness doesn't need to wait for what we might consider ideal

association. For instance, even in presence of both Srila Bhaktisidhanta

and Srila Prabhupada, many recognized devotees lost both their momentum and

stature within the society of Vaisnavas.

 

There are no 'romper room' solutions for becoming Krsna conscious. As Krsna

is both unlimited in His potencies and our best friend, He is constantly

helping us in the most ideal way possible. In that light, the guru is His

representative.

 

ys,

 

sthita

[Guest guest]

>

> >

> >"If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time

> >to be acarya he would have mentioned." SP to Rupanuga

> >

>

>

> We appreciate, at least within ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada as an acarya. We

> also appreciate Srila Prabhupada as someone who was always a pure devotee,

> and so forth. So if at least for conversations sake, how would that

> understanding jive with the idea that no one was qualified as an acarya at

> the time of Srila Bhaktisidhanta's departure?

>

> Further, even though Srila Prabhupada is accepted as an acarya within

> ISKCON, he is not accepted in that same mood by other followers of

> Bhaktisidhanta, what to speak of practitioners in the other Vaisnava

> lines. While undoubtedly respected, Srila Prabhupada does not hold their

> faith exclusively as he does with his followers in ISKCON.

>

> I am only bringing this up to point out that the exclusive faith enjoyed

> by practitioners within a guru/disciple relationship is also a personal

> experience, guided by the principles of guru, sadhu and sastra. I am only

> mentioning this to back up the principle that Prabhupada appeared to be

> discouraging regarding the appointment of acaryas, and so on.

>

>

> >

> >"Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things,

> >but never mentioned an acarya. His idea was acarya was not to be

> >nominated amongst the governing body. He said openly you make a GBC and

> >conduct the mission. So his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would

> >come out successful and self effulgent acarya would be automatically

> >selected." --SP to Rupanuga

> >

> >So in a way Prabhupada means that the GBC has to wait & manage the

> >society till the acarya becomes self-manifest and then he will

> >automatically be selected.

 

>

> But on the other hand, if such an especially empowered devotee where to

> work within ISKCON, I am sure they would know the appropriate way to

> handle such a potentially awkward situation in a manner that is most

> pleasing to the Vaisnavas. Still, I am a little reluctant to indulge in a

> sort of 'wait for the messiah' mentality. Krsna is more than capable to

> help as with whatever help that we may require right now.

 

STORY: one man with no swimming talent helplessly cried "God please save

me?" So one by one diffrent boats were coming but our hero refused help

because he wanted to be saved by God. So he died and in heaven he released

complaint "Why didn't you help me?" Answer "Well i sent three boats with

helping crew but you didn't want to be helped." END OF STORY

 

So we may not necesssary see how KRsna is heling us if we are blind with our

conceptions.

 

STORY: There was some monasty(church) in the Midle ages. Monks hold massess

and had good crowd from local villages coming for religious rights. But

somehow monks started to think who is the best of them, and gradually they

lost respect for each other and stopped cooperation. So perceiving such

polluted atmosphere pepole stopped coming. Monks were frustrated but they

don't know what to do. One day great sage visited their church and being

asked for help, help said that there is a Messiah among them, but he did not

say who and left. So because monks were sinciere and obedient to sage they

started respect each other thinking about another monk as a potenial

Messiah. And congregation started to come again.

END OF STORY

 

If Srila Prabhupada was eligeble to be Acarya, why BSST did not appoint him?

But who would listen to grhasta Abay Caran that time? But Abay Caran showed

to be an Acarya by His preaching work, so all Gaudiya Maths had to recognize

him because none of the rest could actually fulfill BSST order for spreading

Sankirtan in the West. So let us see who among followers of Srila Prabhupada

have no ting of material aspiration but is fully dedicated to the service,

who's heart is so pure that he cries chanting maha mantra, and who's

preaching work is succesful. krsna sakti vina nahe tara pravartana (CC Ant

7.11) Let us see who can fulfill Srila Prabhupada orders.

 

STORY: There were 12 ladies appointed to wait for bridegroom. They waited

for whole night, but 6 of them felt asleep and other 6 waited with lights

on. Brightgroom came 4h30 AM."

 

Mangala arati ki JAY!

RADHASTAMI ki JAAAY!!

 

Your sevant

Dvarkadhis das

[Guest guest]

> For instance, even in presence of both Srila Bhaktisidhanta

> and Srila Prabhupada, many recognized devotees lost both their momentum

> and stature within the society of Vaisnavas.

 

It dosen't mean that the benefit one derives from the association of

devotees is simply based on one's sincerity. It also very much depends on

the spiritual position of whom we taken shelter of. That is why Prabhupda

says one has to be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as one's spiritual

master.

 

> There are no 'romper room' solutions for becoming Krsna conscious. As

> Krsna is both unlimited in His potencies and our best friend, He is

> constantly helping us in the most ideal way possible. In that light, the

> guru is His representative.

 

One cannot say that having a madhyama or kanishtha guru is an ideal

situation. It is a kind of a compromise. That is why Prabhupada clearly says

in NOI:

 

"A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can

also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and

it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the

ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple

should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master."

 

Devahuti became imbued with transcendental realization by serving Kardama

Muni, her husband, because Kardama Muni was full of transcendental

realization by the dint of his mediation on the Supreme Personality of

Godhead. So she automatically inherited Kardama Muni's realization just by

serving him. This is how knowledge is transmitted between guru & disciple.

First of all the guru should have realized knowledge. Depending on his

realization, he can guide his disciple.

 

Another quote from SB 10th canto establishes this fact. I am not able to get

the exact quote now but Prabhupada says that only if the spiritual master is

carrying Krsna is his heart then the disciple can also carry Krsna in his

heart. We can also understand that to the extent guru is carrying Krsna in

his heart to that extent only the disciple will be able to carry Krsna in

his heart. This is confirmed by Prabhupada in the NOI purp quoted above.

So it is by no means an ideal situation if a self-effulgent acarya is not

around.

 

> Answer "Well i sent three boats with

> helping crew but you didn't want to be helped." END OF STORY

>

> So we may not necesssary see how KRsna is heling us if we are blind with

> our conceptions.

 

Krsna is surely helping us by giving us the association & shelter of

advanced devotees. But he helps us the most when he gives us the shelter of

a maha-bhagavata. Prabhupada says others are also guiding but their guidance

is insufficient. That is why it is said that one is very very fortunate to

meet a maha-bhagavata and it is simply Krsna's causeless mercy cannot be

attributed to one's sincerity or any other cause.

 

Your servant,

Nayana-ranjana das

[Guest guest]

>[Text 2636488 from COM]

>

>> For instance, even in presence of both Srila Bhaktisidhanta

>> and Srila Prabhupada, many recognized devotees lost both their momentum

>> and stature within the society of Vaisnavas.

>

>It dosen't mean that the benefit one derives from the association of

>devotees is simply based on one's sincerity. It also very much depends on

>the spiritual position of whom we taken shelter of. That is why Prabhupda

>says one has to be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as one's spiritual

>master.

>

 

 

 

I would look at it the other way around. The benefit one gets from

associating with Vaisnavas is also very much dependent on one's personal

sincerity. Krsna is known to be inclined to fulfil the hearts desire of His

devotees. We must remember that spiritual advancement is not based on one's

physical proximity with a recognized pure devotee.

 

One the other hand. we often quote 'he reasons ill who say that Vaisnava's

die,' etc. The association of pure devotees is also not limited by either

mundane time and space. Still, there is a recognized system within Vaisnava

culture for approaching both Krsna and the established disciplic succession.

 

 

 

>

>Krsna is surely helping us by giving us the association & shelter of

>advanced devotees. But he helps us the most when he gives us the shelter of

>a maha-bhagavata. Prabhupada says others are also guiding but their guidance

>is insufficient. That is why it is said that one is very very fortunate to

>meet a maha-bhagavata and it is simply Krsna's causeless mercy cannot be

>attributed to one's sincerity or any other cause.

>

 

 

Yes, it is all Krsna's mercy descending through His network of devotees. We

must take that mercy wherever and whenever we find it, and not reject

Krsna's help if we feel it is not presented in an appropriate package for

such prospective elevated devotees as our good selves.

 

As mentioned previously, even when Krsna sends his recognized

'self-effulgent acarya' that is no garentee that the devotees will be able

to avoid the hard work of becoming Krsna consciousness. Even in Lord

Caitanya's presence, there are examples of Vaisnavas who ran into

diffulties with their own desires to interact within the material energy.

And then there are also stories of even empowered devotees facing various

sometimes apparently overwhelming challenges.

 

Again, finding a recognized maha-bhagavata to officially take shelter of

will not make the reality of our daily struggle within the conditional

world evaporate.

 

ys,

 

Sthita

[Guest guest]

Dear Sthita prabhujii AGSP what do you mean in the future they will be

devotees that will prove to be specially empower, first a vaisnava doesn't

have to prove nothing to nobody, second of all just look around you in you

every day live there are many devotees empower by SRILA PRABHUPADA and KRSNA

know !!!as we speak, talking about the future are the the scientists,in the

future will create life, SP says that's like giving a postdate check is

ussless,in the future nothing, this transcendental ISKCON family even thought

there are been mistakes is making first class vaisnavas,remember out of many

very few will understand, so if somehow or other we take SP instruction, to

be like the honey bee just looking for nectar instead of been always wasting

time looking for garbage, fault finding and full of criticism that will be

much better don't you think??.

As far Im concern not just my GURU MAHARAJA , but many devotees are

empower by SRILA PRABHUPADA and KRSNA after all the problem is that we are

trying to see the sadhus with our eyes, there is a wonderful class were SP

says

: dont try try to see a sadhu with your eyes you see a sadhu with your ears,

we are so immature that we think here is a good devotes here is a bad

devotee,that is one more of our unlimited faults today

yours

premananda goura das

[Guest guest]

>[Text 2637070 from COM]

>

>Dear Sthita prabhujii AGSP what do you mean in the future they will be

>devotees that will prove to be specially empower,

 

 

Yes, all the devotees are empowered by Krsna. With regards to the

conversation regarding 'acarya', etc., I am agreeing with some of the other

devotees that there could possibly be Vaisnavas coming forward in the

future who'se service appears especially empowered. So we shall see.

 

ys,

 

Sthita