it SHOULD BE UNDERSTOOD that they cannot advance very well

[Guest guest]

> SP says that's like giving a postdate check is

> ussless,in the future nothing, this transcendental ISKCON family even

> thought there are been mistakes is making first class vaisnavas,remember

> out of many very few will understand,

 

No one is saying that one has to sit idle till the self-effulgent acarya

manifests, one should become continue his devotional service, respect and

worship his own diksha guru as per his position and become even more serious

as instructed by Narahari Sarkara Thakura. To worship & serve one's

imperfect husband is better than serving another's perfect husband. This

means there can be only one diksha guru. And if our diksha guru is an

uttama-adhikari then nothing like it. And if one has unfliching faith that

his diksha guru is an uttama-adhikari than fine, it is alright. But the

recent falldowns in ISKCON have evoked a strong feeling that not all gurus

are uttama-adhikaries. This issues have to addressed & discussed because not

all granddisciples may not be having unflinching faith like you because all

gurus may not be uttama-adhikaries.

 

Now one will ask how can one judge the position of his diksha guru. It is an

offense. Prabhupada says that Rupa Goswami states that one should

differenciate between a kanishtha, madhyama & uttama devotee (& also guru)

and act with each of them in a different manner.

 

NOI

 

"A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can

also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and

it SHOULD BE UNDERSTOOD that they cannot advance very well toward the

ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance."

 

NOI

 

"In this verse Srila Rupa Gosvami advises the devotee to be intelligent

enough to distinguish between the kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and

uttama-adhikari."

 

This 'SHOULD BE UNDERSTOOD' is very important. It means that the disciple

should understand that he cannot advance very well and others should also

understand this point. And this understanding is not considered an offense

by Srila Prabhupada. If he dosen't understand this, he will be dispointed

afterwards. Actually this should be done before accepting the spiritual

master. There is no problem in waiting as much as we have to, to ultimately

get an uttama-adhikari as our spiritual master.

 

It is Prabhupada's extraordinary mercy that in this description of the

uttama, madhyama & kanishtha bhaktas, Prabhupada clarifies the situation

about uttama, madhyama & kanishtha gurus as well. He has done it so

explicitly only in NOI for our sake. If he had not done so we would have a

hard hard hard time trying to understand these points because this concept

of madhyama & kanishtha gurus is not discussed explicitly in the sastras.

 

> As far Im concern not just my GURU MAHARAJA , but many devotees are

> empower by SRILA PRABHUPADA and KRSNA after all the problem is that we are

 

Everyone is empowered to some extent. But it is not that all are empowered

to the same extent. And Rupa Goswami says that one has to respected

according to extent of his empowerment. Otherwise it is Vaisnava aparadha to

one who is cent percent empowered. Like for eg. the zonal-acaryas by

assuming the position of full-fledged acaryas which they were not, they

minimized the position of the real acarya, Srila Prabhupada. Also like for

eg. if you enter a Vaisnava assembly, according to Hari-bhakti-vilasa, you

must offer obeisances first to one who is most advanced whether he may be a

grhasta, sannyasi or brahmacari.

 

> trying to see the sadhus with our eyes

 

The sadhu can be seen by hearing, by his ability to converts other into

Vaisnavism & from how strictly he is following his spiritual master.

 

Your servant,

Nayana-ranjana das

[Guest guest]

First of all prabhujii what is this NOI is this S P folio?? Zonal

acharya??prabhu thats old news, guru should be worship as good as GOD,I fell

like going again and again to chew whats already been chew,uttama madyama,etc

any body is better that a fallen disciple ,whats the trip??so there are

disciples from good standing ISKCON GURUS listening to all this and because

they are in maya they say ho!! MY GURU IS NOT AN UTTAMA!!!!! BUT THIS OTHER

ONE IS !!!ok I reject my GURU because this uttama he is gonna give me

something this other lesser guru has giving me and then blup blup blup,this

is tiresome quotes here there,first of all clarified ,many rvtiks try to hide

in this quotes here ,this quote there,the principle is there GURU MUST BE

HONOR ,WORSHIP,AND OBEY untill he deviates from the parampara,no SRILA

PRABHUPADAS disciples are gonna take that away from us,not rvtiks,no gaudiya

mat ISKCON ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!.

I feel is very cruel to try to take the most essencial part of our culture

that is that with out the mercy of GURU we caN not even get close to KRSNA,,a

disciple that dosent worship his guru will fall down certanly,why trying to

implant or inject in devotees all this my guru is pure or is better that

yours etc,why dont concentrate in what SP WANTS,PREACH PREACH

PREACH,DISTRIBUTE BOOKS,SERVE PRASADAMwe should metter our devotion to SRILA

PRABHUPADA looking How many lost souls im bringing to SP LOTUS FEET AND

INCRISING ISKCON FAMILY

GURUS ARE GONNA BE WORSHIP IN ISKCON FOR THE NEXT 10 THOUSAND YEARS WETHER

YOUR LIKE IT OR NOT,OR WETHER RVTIKS LIKE IT OR NOT,OR WETHER SOME PRABHUPADA

DISCIPLES DONT LIKE IT WE WILL WORSHIP GURU FOREVER

yours

prema

[Guest guest]

>

>This 'SHOULD BE UNDERSTOOD' is very important. It means that the disciple

>should understand that he cannot advance very well and others should also

>understand this point.

 

 

It should also be understood that disciples may not advance very well even

if offered siksa and diksa from a mahabhagavata. I can only hope that we

are very careful how we understand our position in relationship to the

other various sadhus.

 

ys,

 

Sthita

[Guest guest]

> First of all prabhujii what is this NOI is this S P folio??

 

Nectar of Instruction.

 

>Zonal acharya??prabhu thats old news

 

But the remanants were still being chewed till recently and the

after-effects are also being seen now. So you just can't reject it as old

news. The GBC recently gave an apology to Pradyumna prabhu who had wrote a

visionary letter at that time protesting against it.

 

Your servant,

Nayana-ranjana das

[Guest guest]

> First of all prabhujii what is this NOI

Nectar of instruction.

 

 

> GURU MUST BE HONOR ,WORSHIP,AND OBEY untill he deviates from the

> parampara,no SRILA PRABHUPADAS disciples are gonna take that away from

> us,not rvtiks,no gaudiya mat ISKCON ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!.

> I feel is very cruel to try to take the most essencial part of our culture

> that is that with out the mercy of GURU we caN not even get close to

> KRSNA,

 

Actually no one even mentioned it in discussion. So why do you suggest that

by discusion guru-tatva we try not to worship guru, even so he may not be as

advanced? Rather SP in Nectar of Instruction text 5 clearly says who is fit

to be worship AS uttama, even he may be not so, in our Movement. I cited it

already in other comments.

 

ys dvd

[Guest guest]

I was answering other letter prabhu,sorry forgive my ofenses

[premananda goura das