Interpretation is at the heart of the ritvik controversy.

[Guest guest]

>So "no body can give Lord Krishna. Even a 100% guru cannot really give

>Lord Krishna" are words of deep realisation and understanding, This is

>correct. Because the disciple has to make endeavour by PARI PRASHNA AND

>SEVA and then only guru can really give krishna.

 

.....again, then guru *requests* Lord Krishna, Who is Supremely independent,

reveals Himself to a sincere devotee. In this sense the guru delivers Lord

Krishna to a sincere disciple. Delivering and giving are two differnt things

if one understand it right.

 

ys, bb

[Guest guest]

>

> ....again, then guru *requests* Lord Krishna, Who is Supremely

> independent, reveals Himself to a sincere devotee. In this sense the guru

> delivers Lord Krishna to a sincere disciple. Delivering and giving are two

> differnt things if one understand it right.

 

Note that a pure devotee can not only deliver Krsna, he can also GIVE*

Krsna, if he likes:

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.6.8, Vrndavana, November 30, 1976

 

"Bhaktivinoda Thakura has sung, krsna se tomara, krsna dite para: "Vaisnava

Thakura, Krsna is your property. If you like, you can *GIVE."

 

Your servant,

Nayana-ranjana das

[Guest guest]

Dear Nayana-ranjana Prabhu,

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada and

ISKCON.

 

> > To me the above statement "Infact, nobody can give Lord Krishna. Even a

> > 100% guru cannot really *give* krishna" are words of DEEP REALISATION AND

> > UNDERSTANDING. This statement is simply perfect.

 

> I have proved with references from Bhaktivinoda Thakura's song, Prabhupada'

> purp. & Madhurya Kadambini, that a pure devotee has Krsna and can give Krsna

> to others as per his desire. Ultimately it happens due to Krsna's desire....

 

I totally agree with your quotations. There is not an iota of doubt in that.

What I am trying to say is the spiritual master or a pure devotee can give

(deliver) one inch. The other inch has to be from the disciple or receiver.

(I am talking about the two inches of rope in Damodara Leela). In that sense a

pure devotee even though he has Lord Krishna (Krishna says "I dwell in the

hearts of my pure devotees") cannot really give krishna. The analogy of radio

transmitter and receiver may help us to understand. A perfect transmitter

cannot deliver/give/transmit the message/signal to an imperfect or defective

receiver.

 

The problem in today's ISKCON is we only concentrate on the qualifications,

characterestics and duties of a spiritual master (transmitter) and forget that

disciple (reciever) also must have certain qualifications, characterestics, and

duties.

 

If Krishna or his pure devotee can give both the two inches then there is no

question of love. The whole world would be filled with Robotic Jivas chanting

Hare Krishna blissfully. In the second inch Krishna has given us a little bit

of free will.

 

Lord Caitanya's mercy is flowing freely for every one. But how many of them

are taking it. If we have a container with full of holes how can we hold that

mercy that is flowing for everyone. The mercy will flow through the holes.

(The reciever has to be perfect).

 

When Srila Prabhupada is delivering the mercy in Mumbai pandal out of thousands

of people only one or two could take it. Srila Prabhupada *could not really

give* the mercy to those who could not take it. Ofcourse to the extant one is

sincere, and to the extant one can surrender to that extant one can take

Krishna.

 

Lord Krishna or his pure devotee *only* can give/deliver. But "They cannot

really give /deliver to a person who cannot take it". If they do give (what is

impossible for krishna or his pure devotee) both the inches of rope then there

is no question of Love. Yes all the confusion will be removed if you apply

acintya bhedabheda tattva.

 

As I said Krishna Consciousness is science of (self) realisation . Finally

everybody speaks based on one's realisations. The devotees speak based on

realisation which is based on "guru, sadhu, and shastra'. Where as the

Sahajiyas or Ritvik Mayavadis also speak based on their personal realisations

which are based on mental concoctions in their tiny brains.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

Your humble servant,

Bhadra Govinda Das.

 

 

 

>

[Guest guest]

> When Srila Prabhupada is delivering the mercy in Mumbai pandal out of

> thousands of people only one or two could take it.

 

One of them was HH Radhanatha Swami.

[Guest guest]

Late comment on KK's text...

 

Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu.

 

VaiŠava d€sanud€s,

 

B€su Ghosh D€s

[Guest guest]

When Srila Prabhupada is delivering the mercy in Mumbai pandal out of

thousands

of people only one or two could take it. Srila Prabhupada *could not really

give* the mercy to those who could not take it. Ofcourse to the extant one

is

sincere, and to the extant one can surrender to that extant one can take

Krishna.

 

Lokanath Swami also came at that time. Same at Delhi Pandal, only three to

my knowledge: Jananivas, Pankajangri and me.

 

Dasanudas

Mkd