Letter to Krsna Kirti Prabhu

[Guest guest]

Dear Krsna Kirti Prabhu

Please accept my prayers for your advancement in Krishna consciousness.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

 

Prabhu I wanted to say that I, along with my friend of over 20 years, Basu

Ghosh, never felt that you were being offensive to my person in any of these

exchanges that we have been having. Rather I very much respect your depth of

knowledge and your ardor for the Vedic culture.

 

However my faith and belief is that Srila Prabhupada is just as much an

incarnation of Krishna as Vyasadeva is. I think his books prove that.

 

Hoping this finds you in a happy serving mood.

 

Yours sincerely

Trivikram Swami

[Guest guest]

Dear Trivikrama Maharaj, please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to

Srila Prabhupada.

 

I thank you and welcome your prayers.

 

When Srila Prabhupada says, "The sastra is the center of all," I take that

to heart. And since my guru maharaja's comment was not accompanied by

evidence, even though the comment is from him, his opinion on the matter

cannot yet be considered conclusive. I am currently discussing this with

him in private, and with other refererences you may not have included when

you posted my texts to the other conference.

 

Personally, I'm not prepared to accept a conclusion if it is obviously in

contravention of scriptural authority, even if that conclusion comes from my

initiating guru. When Srila Prabhupada says "sastra is the center of all",

he is not saying "guru" is the center of all. That is my firm conviction,

it is also Srila Prabhupada's order, and, yes, my guru maharaja has also

instructed us to do like this.

 

>However my faith and belief is that Srila Prabhupada is just as much an

>incarnation of Krishna as Vyasadeva is. I think his books prove that.

>

 

"The first personal expansion is Sankarsana, and the others are incarnations

like the fish incarnation. Sankarsana is an expansion of the Purusa, or

Visnu. The incarnations such as Matsya, the fish incarnation, appear in

different yugas for specific pastimes."

 

[purport] "The purusa-avataras are the Lords of the universal creation.

These are Karanodakasayi Visnu, Garbhodakasayi Visnu and Ksirodakasayi

Visnu. There are also lila-avataras, and these include (1) Catuhsana, or the

four Kumaras, (2) Narada, (3) Varaha, (4) Matsya, (5) Yajna, (6)

Nara-Narayana, (7) Kardami Kapila, (8) Dattatreya, (9) Hayasirsa, (10)

Hamsa, (11) Dhruvapriya, or Prsnigarbha, (12) Rsabha, (13) Prthu, (14)

Nrsimha, (15) Kurma, (16) Dhanvantari, (17) Mohini, (18) Vamana, (19)

Bhargava Parasurama, (20) Raghavendra, (21) Vyasa, (22) Pralambari Balarama,

(23) Krsna, (24) Buddha and (25) Kalki.

 

"These twenty-five Personalities of Godhead are known as lila-avataras.

Because they appear in each day of Brahma, or in each kalpa (millennium),

they are sometimes known as kalpa-avataras. Of these incarnations, Hamsa and

Mohini are neither permanent nor very well known, but They are listed among

the prabhava-avataras. Kapila, Dattatreya, Rsabha, Dhanvantari and Vyasa are

eternally situated and very widely known. They are also counted among the

prabhava incarnations. Kurma, Matsya, Narayana, Varaha, Hayagriva,

Prsnigarbha and Baladeva, the killer of Pralambasura, are counted among the

vaibhava-avataras." (CC Madhya lila 20.245 trans & purport)

 

This list corresponds to the list offered in the first canto of the

Bhagavatam. Elsewhere, Vyasa is also considered a saktyavesa avatara, but

since he appears in every millenium, he is also a lila-avatara.

 

There is a difference.

 

Your servant, Krishna-kirti das

 

P.S. This debate has taken a considerable amount of my time, during which

other worldly tasks have been accumulating. Although this discussion is

very important and should continue, I will have to temporarily excuse myself

from further public debate. Private letters are welcome. Hare Krishna.

[Guest guest]

Could someone clarify this please?

 

It would appear that if Prabhupada's books are "guru", they are so for

Prabhupada's initiated disciples only. For everyone else they are sastra

(or, alternatively, words of a sadhu or spiritual teachings or something

else, depending on the reader's relation with Prabhupada).

In other words, it is as if Prabhupada's books had a different significance

for and a different impact on readers who have a different relationship

with Prabhupada -- his disciples, his granddisciples, other Vaisnavas,

non-devotees, etc.

 

On the other hand, if Prabhupada's books are seen as "guru" for everyone,

wouldn't this be the ritvik approach to Vaisnavism?

 

your servant,

Kunti dd