We need more than a bandaid solution to the recent flare-up in

[Guest guest]

> The recent events in Vrindavan, India signal an urgent need to correct a

> gender-relations problem in ISKCON. However the 4 point solution the

> Women's Ministry suggests, only serves to exacerbate the problem. Simply

> providing women equal/same facilities as men will not foster genuine

> respect or protection for women. Motherly respect is not demonstrated by

> how many women manage temples or how many women give class. It will only

> manifest when men and women each adhere to their respective dharmas for

> the pleasure of Guru and Krsna.

>

> "The GBC will not tolerate any mistreatment of female devotees,

> discrimination against female devotees, or preferential treatment given to

> male devotees in any form.

>

> This is an official directive from the GBC Executive Committee.

>

> Your servant,

> Bir Krishna das Goswami

> Chairman-GBC"

>

> On the one hand, our GBC condemns "preferential treatment given to male

> devotees in any form" yet on the other hand we know it is our duty to give

> preferential treatment to sannyasis. It is statements like this that are

> used to disregard the more subtle rules of vaisnava etiquette between the

> sexes. Should women no longer honour their husbands, sons and male guests

> with any preferential treatment? Is any and all prefential treatment

> towards men antagonistic to women's devotional service? Hopefully that is

> not what Bir Krsna Maharaja intended but his statement has been taken that

> way.

>

>

> If the holy dhama is especially meant for sannyasis and brahmacaris, as

> per Prabhupada's directive, then hopefully the GBC is thinking of ways to

> ensure they are also being protected in their asrama. We've seen enough

> falldowns now to know this is needed. But what the ISKCON Women's Ministry

> is proposing would make it practically impossible for sannyasis and

> brahmacaris to avoid the association and personal service of women, as per

> the rules of their asrama, because they would be obliged to share

> managerial responsibilities and have frequent close contact with them.

>

> Let's hope the GBC will, through education, culture and devotion, honour

> the rights of ALL individuals to perform their prescribed duties according

> to the direction of guru, sastra and sadhu and inspire us all to make

> progress on the path back to Godhead.

>

> Your servant, Sita devi dasi

 

 

Wonderfully written, and fair, and honest, well done.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krsna:

pamho, agtSP

 

Thank you Sita Mataji, you couldn't express it better. My husband

Dhanañjaya Pandit das and me fully agree with you. Until we all don't

follow Srila Prabhupada's instructions AS IT IS, we won't be succesfull.

Srila Prabhupada clearly and paciently instructed us of the importance of

varna & asrama, if we will leave it aside, then our philosphy will

disappear, and everything will be loose.

 

Women has prescribe duties, do we like it or not, is out of question, we

have women bodies due our karma, and as women we can do lots of nice

service, Why be so determinate to be in leading positions? that won't asure

us to go back to Godhead. Wich is the difference to have darshan of the

Deities more close or not? Does the closer devotees get more mercy? NO.

The mercy comes due our conciousness. Is not how much nectar do we get,

just a drop of good nectar with the proper conciousness will make us

advance. Of course that I also agree that women has to have darshan of the

Deities, instead of seeing the sikha of the behind devotee...

 

Men has prescribe duties, do they like it or not, so each one has to deal

with his position according to Srila Prabhupada's teachings,

guru-sadhu-sastra.

 

In my humble opinnion, When men and women will accept their karma, follow

their duties, their dharma as devotees that they willingly choose to be,

accepting inititation, accepting vows, regulatives, etc... then we will be

*real happy*, and even more, we will go Back to Godhead, meantime, fighting

for rights will only keep as in the body conception, being frustrated and

unhappy, what for do we came to Krsna Conciousness movement?

 

yhs, Sridhari devi dasi

 

----------

> De: btb (AT) georgian (DOT) net

> A: COM: DMW (Dharma of Men and Women) <DMW (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: India

(Continental Committee) Open (Forum) <India.Open (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Basu Ghosh

(das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) <Basu.Ghosh.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

> CC: COM: (International) Women's Ministry <Women's.Ministry (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

> Asunto: We need more than a bandaid solution to the recent flare-up in

Vrindav

> Fecha: Lunes 15 de Noviembre de 1999 13:00

>

> [Text 2781020 from COM]

>

> The recent events in Vrindavan, India signal an urgent need to correct a

> gender-relations problem in ISKCON. However the 4 point solution the

> Women's Ministry suggests, only serves to exacerbate the problem. Simply

> providing women equal/same facilities as men will not foster genuine

> respect or protection for women. Motherly respect is not demonstrated by

> how many women manage temples or how many women give class. It will only

> manifest when men and women each adhere to their respective dharmas for

the

> pleasure of Guru and Krsna.

>

> An order was given by the chairman of the GBC Executive Committee to the

> Vrindavana temple authorities, before any investigation or discussion was

> conducted. Part of this order stated:

>

> "The GBC will not tolerate any mistreatment of female devotees,

> discrimination against female devotees, or preferential treatment given

to

> male devotees in any form.

>

> This is an official directive from the GBC Executive Committee.

>

> Your servant,

> Bir Krishna das Goswami

> Chairman-GBC"

>

> On the one hand, our GBC condemns "preferential treatment given to male

> devotees in any form" yet on the other hand we know it is our duty to

give

> preferential treatment to sannyasis. It is statements like this that are

> used to disregard the more subtle rules of vaisnava etiquette between the

> sexes. Should women no longer honour their husbands, sons and male guests

> with any preferential treatment? Is any and all prefential treatment

> towards men antagonistic to women's devotional service? Hopefully that is

> not what Bir Krsna Maharaja intended but his statement has been taken

that

> way.

>

> Here is a letter written to another member of the GBC Executive Committee

> by none other than His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada.

>

> "Why there are so many women in Vrindaban? Vrindaban is meant for

> retirement, elderly persons in Krishna Consciousness can devote all their

> time to devotional service. Such men are wanted to live in Vrindaban, not

> women and children. That is a fact, the holy dhamas are meant for the

> sannyasis and brahmacaris especially. If necessary, the management must

be

> done by sannyasis and brahmacaris, not grhasthas." Letter from Srila

> Prabhupada to: Gopala Krsna Los Angeles 9 June, 1976

>

> Here is another similar one written to Madhukara:

>

> "We cannot expect that our temples will become places of shelter for so

> many widows and rejected wives, that will be a great burden and we shall

> become the laughingstock in the society. There will be unwanted progeny

> also. And there will be illicit sex life, that we are seeing already."

> (Letter to: Madhukara, 4 January, 1973)

>

> These letters may sound shocking to some people but they prompt us to

> question why there are so many unprotected women in Vrindavana without

the

> presence of their natural protectors; their fathers, husbands or sons?

Also

> why did these women not accept the local standard of deity greeting which

> has been going on since Prabhupada was personally present? Why did they

not

> first contact higher authorities before angrily trying to push their way

to

> the front of the altar? Is this behavior approved by the Women's

Ministry?

>

> If the holy dhama is especially meant for sannyasis and brahmacaris, as

per

> Prabhupada's directive, then hopefully the GBC is thinking of ways to

> ensure they are also being protected in their asrama. We've seen enough

> falldowns now to know this is needed. But what the ISKCON Women's

Ministry

> is proposing would make it practically impossible for sannyasis and

> brahmacaris to avoid the association and personal service of women, as

per

> the rules of their asrama, because they would be obliged to share

> managerial responsibilities and have frequent close contact with them.

>

> Let's hope the GBC will, through education, culture and devotion, honour

> the rights of ALL individuals to perform their prescribed duties

according

> to the direction of guru, sastra and sadhu and inspire us all to make

> progress on the path back to Godhead.

>

> Your servant, Sita devi dasi