offenses against Prabhupada's Bhakta's going unchecked

[Guest guest]

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Wed, 17 Nov 99 11:12 -0500

btb (AT) georgian (DOT) net <btb (AT) georgian (DOT) net>

COM: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) <basu.ghosh.acbsp (AT) bbt (DOT) se>,

COM: Madhusudani Radha (dd) JPS (Mill Valley - USA)

<madhusudani.radha.jps (AT) bbt (DOT) se>,

DMW (Dharma of Men and Women) <dmw (AT) bbt (DOT) se>,

COM: (International) Women's Ministry <women's.ministry (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

Re: offenses against Prabhupada's Bhakta's going unchecked

 

At 9:38 AM -0500 11/17/99, COM: Kusha (dd) ACBSP (Philadelphia, PA - USA)

wrote:

>[Text 2786296 from COM]

>

>Wow! How you misunderstood such offensiveness from Pranada's words is

>shocking. Pranada's statement meant that local tradition as well as the

>standard Srila Prabhupada set supports ladies standing up front. As we,

>ladies remember Srila Prabhupada never had us stand in the back in India. We

>stood on the left side. The standard where ladies stood in the back was

>imposed shortly after Srila Prabhupada's departure. I also remember at that

>time the ladies were not able to chant their rounds in the temple room after

>the mangal Tulasi arotik. However, this was not Srila Prabhupada's standard.

>

>Also in all local Vrindavan temples like Radha Raman, Bankibhihari, Radha

>Govindaji, as well as Nathdwar temple of Srinathji ladies are standing up

>front during arotik. Jivan Mukta please, please don't misunderstand

>Pranada's words to mean something offensive to His Divine Grace. This is a

>mistake.

>

>In Srila Prabhupada Seva,

>Kusha devi dasi

 

>1. Do the women deserve this? By Pranada dasi CHAKRA Text of November 13,

>1999

>

>Neither local custom nor examples set by Srila Prabhupada obligates ISKCON

>managers to enforce a rule that women cannot take darsana in the front.>>>>>>

 

Dear Mother Kusha,

 

PAMHO. AGTSP.

 

>NEITHER local custom NOR examples set by Srila Prabhupada obligates

>ISKCON managers to enforce a rule that women cannot take darsana

>in the front.

 

NEITHER "A" (local custom) NOR "B" (examples set by Srila Prabhupada)

obligates (morally or legally bind) ISKCON managers.

 

This means that both "A" and "B" are authorities that DO NOT (NEITHER and

NOR) obligate (morally or legally bind) ISKCON managers to act in a certain

way! Therefore they can do whatever they want irrespective of local customs

and Prabhupada's examples.

 

If you say that this is not the meaning she was trying to convey, then

fine, I accept that. Nevertheless, that is how I read it and it turns out

to be a very badly written sentence.

 

If Pranada dd wanted to say that Prabhupada allowed women "to take darsana

in the front" and that we ARE obligated to follow Prabhupada's examples and

local custom, then the proper phrasing for that is:

 

"Local custom and the examples set by Srila Prabhupada obligate ISKCON

managers to allow women "to take darsana in the front." Your sentence is

also very clear: "local tradition as well as the standard Srila Prabhupada

set supports ladies standing up front." Bas. Clear and unequivocal.

 

Accepting that Pranada dd and the women of the IWM want to follow Srila

Prabhupada's standards for Vrndavana along with the local customs, why have

they not used the examples of our closest relatives, the Gaudiya Matha, for

some direction on these matters?

 

The IWM, of which Pranda dd is a member, demands among other things, that

women be allowed:

 

1) to engage in all types of service,

2) to utilize adequate living arrangements

 

Are these women wanting to serve the Deities as pujaris? If so, local

custom and Srila Prabhupada's standard in India prohibits this. Do they

want to serve as TP's and GBC? Where is the local custom and example of

Srila Prabhupada that allowed this to occur?

 

Likewise how can women demand living space in Vrndavana when Prabhupada

clearly frowned upon it?

 

Letter from Srila Prabhupada to: Gopala Krsna Los Angeles 9 June, 1976:

 

"Why there are so many women in Vrindaban? Vrindaban is meant for

retirement, elderly persons in Krishna Consciousness can devote all their

time to devotional service. Such men are wanted to live in Vrindaban, not

women and children. That is a fact, the holy dhamas are meant for the

sannyasis and brahmacaris especially. If necessary, the management must be

done by sannyasis and brahmacaris, not grhasthas."

 

ys. JMd

 

PS. Have you read one of your member's(Dhyanakunda dd's) statements about

not trusting Prabhupada and being irrated by his confidence? Comments?

 

------ End of forwarded message -------

[Guest guest]

Hare Krsna,

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

So now Guru Krsna, Jivan Mukta and Sita Prabhus know better than Pranada

what Pranada was saying and thinking? Unbelievable.

 

If they can misinterpret the words of someone who is actually present to

clarify them, no wonder they're accomplishing such word jugglery with

Prabhupada's texts.

 

Thre is no point in continuing to explain to them what Pranada meant. You

can't wake someone up who's only pretending to be sleeping.

 

Ys,

Madhusudani dasi