Guest guest Posted November 23, 1999 Report Share Posted November 23, 1999 >It seems to be that we are far away of accepting Srila Prabhupada's >instructions AS IT IS. >But HE clearly instructed us DON'T CHANGE NOTHING, DON'T ADD NOTHING > >ys, Sridhari dd Exactly, and when the women asked Srila Prabhupada where they could chant, he told them that they could chant in the temple room where the men were chanting. And we all know where he suggested that the men should go if they became too agitated. Please let us follow Srila Prabhupada's clear instructions and not change anything. Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 1999 Report Share Posted November 24, 1999 > > [Text 2800303 from COM] > > > >It seems to be that we are far away of accepting Srila Prabhupada's > >instructions AS IT IS. > >But HE clearly instructed us DON'T CHANGE NOTHING, DON'T ADD NOTHING > > > >ys, Sridhari dd > > Exactly, and when the women asked Srila Prabhupada where they could chant, > he told them that they could chant in the temple room where the men were > chanting. And we all know where he suggested that the men should go if > they became too agitated. Can you support your above statement with quotes please, mataji? You leaders see that the Krsna Conscious standards in regard to initiation, cleanliness, dress and activities of the devotees, THE RESTRICTION OF ASSOCIATION BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN, all be strictly followed. Devotional service cannot be done whimsically. Letter to: Madhavananda, 1 January, 1974 > > Please let us follow Srila Prabhupada's clear instructions and not change > anything. if you are saying here that not change anything, I still don't understand why you believe in having good reason for changing Srila Prabhupada's book. Why do you contradict yourself as convenience? ys, Sridhari dd > > Ys, > Madhusudani dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 1999 Report Share Posted November 27, 1999 > >It seems to be that we are far away of accepting Srila Prabhupada's > >instructions AS IT IS. > >But HE clearly instructed us DON'T CHANGE NOTHING, DON'T ADD NOTHING > > > >ys, Sridhari dd Madhusudani Radha dd. wrote: > Exactly, and when the women asked Srila Prabhupada where they could chant, > he told them that they could chant in the temple room where the men were > chanting. And we all know where he suggested that the men should go if > they became too agitated. Sridhari dd. "Can you support your above statement with quotes please, mataji? "You leaders see that the Krsna Conscious standards in regard to initiation, cleanliness, dress and activities of the devotees, THE RESTRICTION OF ASSOCIATION BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN, all be strictly followed. Devotional service cannot be done whimsically." Letter to: Madhavananda, 1 January, 1974 ---------------------- For those who do not know, here are some very pertinent instructions from Srila Prabhupada: **************************** Who has introduced these things, that women cannot have chanting japa in the temple, they cannot perform the arati and so many things? If they become agitated, then let the brahmacaris go to the forest, I have never introduced these things. The brahmacaris cannot remain in the presence of women in the temple, then they may go to the forest, not remaining in New York City, because in New York there are so many women, so how they can avoid seeing? >>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: Ekayani -- Bombay 3 December, 1972 *********************************** Devotee (9): What I meant to say is he does not want to chant with women in the temple room. I have seen this before. He says, "I do not want to chant in a room with women. I would rather be away from the women." Prabhupada: That means he has got distinction between men and women. He is not yet pandit. Panditah sama-darsinah [bg. 5.18]. He is a fool. That's all. He is a fool. So what is the value of his words? He is a fool. Indian man (4): So he'll go first to make... Prabhupada: He should always consider, "There is woman, that's all. She is my mother." That's all. Matrvat para-daresu. Then what is the...? Suppose you sit down with your mother and chant. What is the wrong? But he is not so strong; then he should go to the forest. Why he should live in the Nairobi city? >>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi ***************************************** Morning walk Dec 10 1975: Indian man: Women are subordinate. Prabhupada: Not subordinate actually. The occupations are different. It does not mean... That is another mistake. ********************** Prabhupada: There are so many Western woman, girls, in our society. They are chanting, dancing, taking to Krsna consciousness. Of course, because superficially, bodily, there is some distinction, so we keep women separately from men, that's all. Otherwise, the rights are the same. Prof. O'Connell: Is it possible, Swamiji, for a woman to be a guru in the line of disciplic succession? Prabhupada: Yes. Jahnava devi was -- Nityananda's wife. She became. If she is able to go to the highest perfection of life, why it is not possible to become guru? >>> Ref. VedaBase => Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 1999 Report Share Posted November 27, 1999 At 5:28 PM +0100 11/27/99, COM: Harsi (das) HKS (Timisoara - RO) wrote: >[Text 2812473 from COM] >For those who do not know, here are some very pertinent >instructions from Srila Prabhupada: > >**************************** > >Who has introduced these things, that women cannot have >chanting japa in the temple, they cannot perform the arati and so >many things? If they become agitated, then let the brahmacaris go >to the forest, I have never introduced these things. The brahmacaris >cannot remain in the presence of women in the temple, then they >may go to the forest, not remaining in New York City, because in >New York there are so many women, so how they can avoid >seeing? >>>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: Ekayani -- Bombay 3 December, >1972 Who is saying that women can't chant in the temple? Yet even in the temple there must be restriction of association between men and women. >*********************************** >Devotee (9): What I meant to say is he does not want to chant with >women in the temple room. I have seen this before. He says, "I do >not want to chant in a room with women. I would rather be away >from the women." > >Prabhupada: That means he has got distinction between men and >women. He is not yet pandit. Panditah sama-darsinah [bg. 5.18]. >He is a fool. That's all. He is a fool. So what is the value of his >words? He is a fool. > >Indian man (4): So he'll go first to make... > >Prabhupada: He should always consider, "There is woman, that's >all. She is my mother." That's all. Matrvat para-daresu. Then what >is the...? Suppose you sit down with your mother and chant. What >is the wrong? But he is not so strong; then he should go to the >forest. Why he should live in the Nairobi city? > >>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi The presence of women in the temples was one of ISKCON's faults. Of this there is no doubt. At the same time so many desitute women were coming to ISKCON for shelter. Therefore the men and the women had to try to co-exist even though ideally the women would have their own separae asramas. Prabhupada did not want this intermingling encouraged or expanded. In fact, when it was proposed that a girls' gurukula be built in Vrndavana near the boys' gurukula, Prabhupada strongly rebukes that idea and said that if any so-called girls' gurukula was to be built, it should be in a different town altogether. Conclusion: Deal with the exigencies and plan for a better future. >Morning walk Dec 10 1975: > >Indian man: Women are subordinate. >Prabhupada: Not subordinate actually. The occupations are >different. It does not mean... That is another mistake. > >********************** > >Prabhupada: There are so many Western woman, girls, in our >society. They are chanting, dancing, taking to Krsna >consciousness. Of course, because superficially, bodily, there is >some distinction, so we keep women separately from men, that's >all. Otherwise, the rights are the same. > >Prof. O'Connell: Is it possible, Swamiji, for a woman to be a guru in >the line of disciplic succession? > >Prabhupada: Yes. Jahnava devi was -- Nityananda's wife. She >became. If she is able to go to the highest perfection of life, why it >is not possible to become guru? > >>>> Ref. VedaBase => Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal And so what is the contradiction? Jahnava devi was the internal potency of the Lord. Exceptions are always there to a general rule. Bhaktivinda Thakura says in his Bhaktyaloka p.85: "General rules are not changed because something happens to a particular person in a special situation. Sri Dhruva Maharaja went to Dhruva loka in his material body; seeing that, should one waste time hoping for the same? The general rule is a living entity gives up his material body and goes to Vaikuntha in his spiritual body. General rules should be accepted by people in general." And what is the general rule? Suniti, however, being a woman, and specifically his mother, could not become Dhruva Maharaja's diska-guru. (SB 4.12.32) Like Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Prabhupada, the perfect acarya, who lives and breathes according to sastra, reconciles what our imperfect senses consider contradictions by saying: "t is not that woman cannot be acarya. Generally, they do not become. In very special case. (From transcript of original tape of SP dictating BGAII intro. 660219BG.NY) Just like in very special cases someone can go back to Godhead in his material body. But *generally*, you'd better not count on it! So what were you trying to prove with these quotes anyway? ys. JMd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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