Should we embrace Vedic culture?

[Guest guest]

On 28 Nov 1999, Mahatma das wrote:

 

 

>

> Aren't we here to "purify", literally "change" our consciousness? And get

rid of the "western ideas" and adopt "real vaishnava culture"? And I'm not

"demanding" perfection in that at all. Just that we ought to adopt it! At

least make the attempt. Isn't that what the KC movement is really about?

>

 

 

It would appear what the KC movement is really about is getting rid of the

idea that we can somehow enjoy more completely by competing with God, rather

than by serving Him in a loving relationship. That 'idea' is not unique to any

one culture.

 

Our primary vehicle for correcting this 'idea' is the introduction of the

process of chanting the Maha Mantra.

 

Personally, I feel a certain over obsession with the East vs. West in this

regard misses the essential point.

 

 

>

> I really feel that SP indeed wanted to "supplant" western culture with

> "pristine" vedic culture... but when that'd happen... "your guess is a good

as mine"! Till then... Hare Krishna!

>

> I think if everyone was adopting vedic culture and it was working for

> everyone, I wouldn't have brought this up. I only brought this up because

this is not happening, not because I think western culture is better. Of

course, I would like to add that perhaps everything we think is vedic, is

not. It may be a neo vedic something or other that we just think is vedic.

>

>

 

 

The real value of prisine Vedic culture is that it is uniquely well suited for

supporting the spiritual ambitions of the human being. Otherwise, why should

we care a fig about it?

 

Fortunately, in Kali Yuga, Lord Caitanya has outlined the chanting process for

all things auspicious. Certainly Vedic culture is most useful within that

context, but the chanting transcends all cultural designations.

 

Still, I have little doubt that while we will see the chanting process as

something gradually developing all things auspicious, as a natural by-product

a good chunk of auspiciousness will certainly include 'pristine' Vedic

culture. But without emphasizing the Lord Caitanya's process of chanting, our

Kali Yuga attempts at Vedicising KC will prove hollow to the point of almost

being cartoonish.

 

Still, not wanting to be out of character, I feel I need to pile on some more

added cynicism. I frankly doubt many of our Vedic wannabe advocates would be

satisfied with the State of the Vedic Union even if they were conmplaining

during previous more supportive Yuga eras. Sometimes some of their idealized

sound-bites just plain sound Disneyesque.

 

There are just no easy solutions with regards to escaping the natural miseries

of conditional life, and our deep-rooted attachment for them. Trust me, people

living in Vedic culture were also 'in maya', otherwise, for the most part,

they wouldn't be here to debate the topic.

 

On the other hand, if there is some need to 'push' fashionable Vedic versions

of Vedic culture, it might be better to consider allowing various 'Hindu' type

groups to lead the charge. Might be better for ISKCON to emphasize more

universal religious principles such as chanting, dancing and taking prasada.

 

ys,

 

Sthita-dhi

[Guest guest]

I Dear Dhyanbankunda Prabhu,

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Your letter is laid out as if the whole text was your response to the

quote from Basu Gosh Prabhu below:

 

I'll put the name of the person over wehat they wrote. It will continue with

their quotes until the other name appears over their quote.

 

Ys, Md

 

 

BG

 

><< But what about the idealism that this movement was started with? The

>idealism that had westerners adopting Indian dress, food, religious

>practices, etc.? >>

 

 

But it seems that this is a discussion between you and him, just that when

you quote him, you do not mark these quotes (program bug?)

 

I went through it and tried to mark with ">" what I thought was Basu

Gosh's quotes. Please correct me if I erred somewhere.

 

Your humble servant,

 

Dhyana-kunda dasi

 

.........................................................................

MD

 

For many, idealism has now become somewhat balanced after seeing what they

are capable of acheiving as well as how they prefer to live.

 

>I think some may also feel, rightly or wrongly, that vedic cultural is

>external and thus not essetially important. In other words, they may

>prefer pants and pizza to dhoties and dokla (or saris and sandesa) and

>not feel that it has much of an effect one way or the other on their

>Krsna consciousness.

 

Now this would make an interesting discussion. How much effect does

culture have on one's spiritual life? Any comments?

 

BG

 

>Aren't we here to "purify", literally "change" our consciousness? And

>get rid of the "western ideas" and adopt "real vaishnava culture"? And

>I'm not "demanding" perfection in that at all. Just that we ought to

>adopt it! At least make the attempt. Isn't that what the KC movement is

>really about?

 

MD

 

What I have noticed in my travels is that Iskcon has a different flavor in

different countries. This showed me that cultural conditioning is very

deep and Iskcon absorbs some of the local culture. For example, when I

first went to Italy I saw that chapatis just didn't rate compared to

pizza. And I heard that in Japan the devotees can't live without eating

seaweed. Even if we say that we are meant to adopt the vaisnava culture,

for many it will be difficult or at least there will be certain things

they just won't want to adopt of certain things they won't want to give

up. So it really seems that Iskcon devotees are combining both cultures

and devotees individually find a happy medium, some more on the vedic side

and some not.

 

>When I produced my first kirtana tape, I used western music with the idea

>of making the maha mantra attractive to people that weren't so involved

>in KC. And it worked. But at the same time many devotees liked the tape.

>I wasn't making the tape for them and never even expected that thye would

>like it. But this goes to show that not everyone just wants to hear

>traditional bengali kirtans.

>

BG

 

>Now I'm sure there will be some who will rationalize listening to such

>stuff employing a similar kind of logic that you have above. But I know

>& I hope you understand that if we want to make advancement in KC... we'd

>have to give it up eventually. And there are so many more of these types

>of analogies... hope you get the point.

 

MD

 

Your point is well taken but.......

 

Every morning we listen to a rendition of the Brahma Samhita that is

certainly western. The only thing not western are the kartals. Otherwise

you have guitar, bass, drums and keyboard. And somehow Prabhupada liked

it. Just thought I would throw this in for the sake of discussion.

 

BG

 

>I really feel that SP indeed wanted to "supplant" western culture with

>"pristine" vedic culture... but when that'd happen... "your guess is a

>good as mine"! Till then... Hare Krishna!

 

MD

 

I think if everyone was adopting vedic culture and it was working for

everyone, I wouldn't have brought this up. I only brought this up because

this is not happening, not because I think western culture is better. Of

course, I would like to add that perhaps everything we think is vedic, is

not. It may be a neo vedic something or other that we just think is

vedic.

 

 

Your servant,

 

Mahatma dasa

[Guest guest]

On 28 Nov 1999, Mahatma das wrote:

 

Basu Ghosh wrote this, not me.

>

> Aren't we here to "purify", literally "change" our consciousness? And get

rid of the "western ideas" and adopt "real vaishnava culture"? And I'm not

"demanding" perfection in that at all. Just that we ought to adopt it! At

least make the attempt. Isn't that what the KC movement is really about?>>

 

< There are just no easy solutions with regards to escaping the natural

miseries

of conditional life, and our deep-rooted attachment for them. Trust me,

people

living in Vedic culture were also 'in maya', otherwise, for the most part,

they wouldn't be here to debate the topic.>

 

It is interesting to note that Vyasadeva, under Narada's direction, rejected

the whole of karma kanda which comprises much of vedic culture. Bhaktivinoda

thakura said that if all the vedas were lost and we only had the Bhagavatam,

there would really be no loss.