Prabhupada is gone?

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 11/23/99 8:21:42 PM Central Standard Time,

> btb (AT) georgian (DOT) net writes:

>

> << Why are we hell-bent upon making ISKCON "unfortunate" by having female

> leaders? >>

 

> Mahatama replied:

> I guess someday when you go back to godhead you can ask Prabhupada why he

> said that women can become gurus and why he asked some female disciples to

> become GBC members.

 

 

I have always wondered about this: Is Srila Prabhupada "gone" back home far,

far away from us? I can understand that when he left his body he would "go"

to Krsna's lotus feet, but wasn't he already there when he was with us?

 

Why isn't Srila Prabhupada in a new body, about 22 years old, right here on

earth to take all of his disciples back home?

[Guest guest]

Yikes, prabhu! All due respect but Now runs a little to speculative even for

me! Do you really beleive that?

 

YS

 

Chaturatma dasa

[Guest guest]

> Yikes, prabhu! All due respect but Now runs a little to speculative even

> for me! Do you really beleive that?

>

> YS

>

> Chaturatma dasa

 

 

Hari bol! Don't worry Prabhu, I'm not venturing into weirdo territory. I was

just expressing innocently something I have wondered about over the years.

It is said that the spiritual master does not go home until he delivers all

of his disciples. In what form does he "stay"? And if he is not here in

"human form" to perform our deliverance, is our access to him available

without physical presence forever? And is that access to him limited to only

his disciples that he initiated before he left his mortal body or is access

to siksa guru open to everyone always?

 

Personally I feel Srila Prabhupada is as much "here" as he has always been

for me. For 99% of my devotee life I have always served him through my mind,

pictures, tapes, books, etc. I had only a few personal associations with him

and those were not one on one (morning walks, lectures, as body guard). I

never received personal, physical, one on one instructions from him but

never felt that I didn't have his association. He was traveling the world

performing his daiva-varnasrama duties as a Vaisnava sannyasi and once in

awhile he would stop at a temple I was fortunate enough to be staying at.

 

Now, when I look at the same pictures of him I have always looked at and

read his same books I have always read, I think of him as on an extended

preaching mission somewhere in the universe and perhaps he will once again

stop back here in some form which is more readily associative or perhaps I

will be able to associate with him better in my heart at that time.

 

In any case, it seems that the disciple can associate with and serve the

guru, and thereby advance spiritually, whether he is physically present or

not. When we used to "complain" to the temple authorities that we wanted

personal darshan with Srila Prabhupada when he would visit they would say

that doing our service in the temple was "better" than physical association

with Srila Prabhupada. Actually I received diksa in the exact same way.

 

One last thing, is it stated somewhere that the guru never returns in a

Vaisnava body to continue preaching? Just wondering.

 

 

Hari!

 

Janesvara dasa

[Guest guest]

> >Why isn't Srila Prabhupada in a new body, about 22 years old, right

> >here on earth to take all of his disciples back home?

 

On 28 Nov 1999, Chaturatma das wrote:

 

> Yikes, prabhu! All due respect but Now runs a little to speculative even for

 

> me! Do you really beleive that?

>

> YS

> Chaturatma dasa

 

Well if he is, I certainly hope he gets appointed to the GBC but quick

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada's Perfect Answer:

 

·> You have asked if it is true that the Spiritual Master remains in the

·> material universe until all of His disciples are transferred to the

·> Spiritual Sky. The answer is yes, this is the rule. Therefore, every

·> student should be very much careful not to commit any offense which

·> will be detrimental to this promotion to the Spiritual Kingdom, and

·> thereby the Spiritual Master has to incarnate again to deliver him.

·> This sort of mentality will be a kind of offense to the Spiritual

·> Master. Out of the ten kinds of offenses, the number one offense is to

·> disobey the orders of the Spiritual Master. The instructions given to

·> the disciple by the Spiritual Master at the time of initiation should

·> be strictly followed. That will make one advance to the spiritual path.

·> But if one deliberately defies such instructions, then his advancement

·> is hampered from the very beginning. This defying means to disconnect

·> the relationship with the Spiritual Master. And anyone who defies and

·> therefore disconnects the relationship with the Spiritual Master can

·> hardly expect the assistance of the Spiritual Master life after life. I

·> hope this will clear up this question sufficiently for you.

·>

·> >>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: Jayapataka -- Los Angeles 11 July, 1969

 

·> In the bhakti-yoga process, the role of the spiritual master is most

·> important and essential. Although the spiritual master will always come

·> back until his devotees have achieved God realization, one should not

·> try to take advantage of this. We should not trouble our spiritual

·> master but should complete the bhakti-yoga process in this life. The

·> disciple should be serious in his service to the spiritual master, and

·> if the devotee is intelligent, he should think, "Why should I act in

·> such a way that my spiritual master has to take the trouble to reclaim

·> me again? Let me realize Krsna in this life." That is the proper way of

·> thinking. We should not think, "Oh, I am sure that my spiritual master

·> will come and save me. Therefore I will do as I please." If we have any

·> affection for our spiritual master, we should complete the process in

·> this life, so that he does not have to return to reclaim us.

·> In this regard, there is the example of Bilvamangala Thakura, who, in

·> his previous life, was elevated almost to prema-bhakti, the highest

·> platform of devotional service. However, since there is always a chance

·> for a falldown, somehow or other he fell down. In his next life, he was

·> born in a very rich brahmana family, in accordance with the principle

·> enunciated in the Sixth Chapter of Bhagavad-gita (6.41): sucinam

·> srimatam gehe. Unfortunately, as is often the case with rich boys, he

·> became a prostitute hunter. Yet it is said that his spiritual master

·> instructed him through his prostitute, saying, "Oh, you are so attached

·> to this mere flesh and bones. If you were this much attached to Krsna,

·> how much good you might achieve!" Immediately Bilvamangala Thakura

·> resumed his devotional service.

·> Although the spiritual master assumes responsibility for his disciple,

·> we should not take advantage of this. Rather, we should try to please

·> the spiritual master (yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah **). We should

·> not put our spiritual master in such a position that he has to reclaim

·> us from a house of prostitution. But even if he has to do so, he will

·> do it, because he assumes this responsibility when he accepts his

·> disciple.

·>

·> >>> Ref. VedaBase => Path of Perfection, Ch 8: Failure and Success in

Yoga

 

·> [The Goswamis]They save time in this way, and

·> radha-krsna-padaravinda-bhajananandena

·> mattalikau, be jolly in the service of Radha-Krsna, bhajanananda. That

·> should be the basis of jolly, jollyness. And this should be adjusted or

·> minimized according to... Our real pleasure should be in

·> bhajananandena. Radha-krsna-padaravinda-bhajananandena. In this way we

·> have taken very serious job. In this life we want to finish this

·> material existence for good. That should be the responsibility, that

·> "We are going to finish this material existence for good. No more

·> coming." Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [bg. 4.9]. If you take

·> responsibility in that way, then everything will be adjusted. Serious.

·> My Guru Maharaja used to say like that, that "Finish this business in

·> this life. Don't delay for the next life." He was telling also that

·> "Don't give me trouble again to come here to deliver you." That is the

·> responsibility of spiritual master. Spiritual master responsibility is

·> to take the disciple to Krsna, until he is able to do, to help him, to

·> help him, to help him. That is the verdict of the sastras. Just like

·> Bilvamangala Thakura. His spiritual master delivered him, taking the

·> shape of a prostitute. So these stories are there.

·>

·> >>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.3.18 -- Gorakhpur, February

·> >>> 11, 1971