Sri Visnupriya-palli

[Guest guest]

Mother Sita wrote:

 

> The following is from Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Maharaja's biography,

> "Prabhupada Saraswati Thakur" pgs. 32-33, from a lecture given on Sept.

> 21, 1925. As we have previously presented references from His Divine Grace

> AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada on this topic, it is hoped we

> won't be accused of "jumping over", but rather this reference below shows

> that HDGACBSP's support for women's asramas was in parampara:

>

> "Our maths are being built at many places, and many sannyasis,

> vanaprasthas, grhasthas, and brahmacaris are living there all the time and

> receiving the opportunity to learn spiritual conduct. But we have been

> trying for a long time also give the mothers (women) the opportunity for

> devotional service. Of course, those who have the facility and opportunity

> for devotional service in their own homes do not need a separate

> residence. But very often we hear that many of them get impeded in their

> devotional service due to bad association. It will be very beneficial for

> them if we can build Sri Visnupriya-palli ("palli" means "neighborhood")

> in Sridham Mayapura near the residence of Sriman Mahaprabhu, and if they

> can live there separately from their families and render devotional

> service. They actually belong to the group of Sri Visnupriya Devi (the

> wife of Sriman Mahaprabhu, who was left behind in Navadwip when He took

> sannyasa). Therefore it is proper for them to live in the house of Sriman

> Mahaprabhu and to serve Him under the shelter of Sri Visnupriya Devi.

> There should not be any bad association or mundane male association for

> them there. Only a few devotees like Isan (the old devotee servant who

> took care of Sri Sachidevi and Sri Visnupriya Devi after Sriman Mahaprabhu

> left) would stay at a distance and take care of them. It is necessary to

> have such an exemplary neighborhood so that the mothers (women) can read

> scripture every day, discuss devotional topics with each other, and have

> ista-gosthi about devotional topics, so they can give up all luxury and

> live an exemplary, saintly life and always chant the holy name and take

> care of the ingredients of Sriman Mahaprabhu's service and serve him in

> every way. -- Saraswati Jayasri, p. 339)

 

Most beautiful & relevant quote from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. Thanks for

posting it.

 

> Yes, I agree. That's a nice arrangement. But as far as women managing on

> their own, and not as their husbands' assistants, that is meant for widows

> who are living a life of renunciation. It would be inappropriate for a

> woman on her won to be managing temples other than one which is

> exclusively for women or one where her husband is managing.

 

Ofcourse there can be some rare exceptions to this rule like in our

parampara we see Jahnava Devi, Hemalata Thakurani, Gangamata Goswami taking

on the role of acaryas and gurus who had many male disciples.

 

So we can conclude from the above quote that in general women who like to do

some leadership service should take shelter of Visnupriya Thakurani and as

instructed by Srila Prabhupada & Srila Bhaktisiddhanta start a women ashrama

where they can get the opportunity to manage & lead other women. And if

among these women leaders who are leading a highly pure life in the women

ashrama there are some mothers who by their activities prove themselves very

advanced & elevated in KC, then they may be accepted as guru especially for

other mothers and even for men if they become very highly advanced or

self-effulgent as Prabhupada puts it. Women (especially single women)

managing themselves without any help of men is such a great idea because it

greatly reduces the pressure off the temple authorities & resident

brahmacaries in the temple who may also be involved the management.

 

Also one of the reason why Srila Prabhupada said that single unamrried women

in the temple is very risky maybe because it builds up a kind of

psychological impression in the minds of the brhmacaries who see the same

women day after day in the temple programs and ultimately the brahmacari may

feel like talking & interacting with them because they are single &

unmarried. And in the end the temple may end up loosing the services of a

brahmacari who now wants to become a grhasta. That is why it is risky.

Srila Prabhupada told HH Giriraja Swami that your duty as a manager in

Bombay is to see that all the brahmacaries remain brahmacaries and all

ladies get married.

 

Those women who are assisting their husbands in managerial activities in

ISKCON temples should limit the assistance to their husbands and not

interact with other men especially the brahmacaries & sannyasis in the name

of assisting in the management. I have seen that sometimes the wife of the

president takes a dominating role in making management decisions and

directly interacts with the temple brahmacaries. The sincere brahmacaries

leave because of this and those brahmacaries who want to associate with

women in the garb of wearing saffron have a great time.

 

I am open for comments.

 

Your servant,

Nayana-ranjana das

[Guest guest]

At 3:13 AM +0000 12/6/99, COM: Nayana-ranjana (das) (BBT Bombay - IN) wrote:

>[Text 2833924 from COM]

 

>Most beautiful & relevant quote from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. Thanks for

>posting it.

>

>> Yes, I agree. That's a nice arrangement. But as far as women managing on

>> their own, and not as their husbands' assistants, that is meant for widows

>> who are living a life of renunciation. It would be inappropriate for a

>> woman on her won to be managing temples other than one which is

>> exclusively for women or one where her husband is managing.

>

>Ofcourse there can be some rare exceptions to this rule like in our

>parampara we see Jahnava Devi, Hemalata Thakurani, Gangamata Goswami taking

>on the role of acaryas and gurus who had many male disciples.

 

Yes, I agree Prabhu. But BHaktivinoda Thakura has nicely explained this

situation:

 

Bhaktivinda Thakura says in his Bhaktyaloka p.85:

 

"General rules are not changed because something happens to a particular

person in a special situation. Sri Dhruva Maharaja went to Dhruva loka in

his material body; seeing that, should one waste time hoping for the same?

The general rule is a living entity gives up his material body and goes to

Vaikuntha in his spiritual body. General rules should be accepted by

people in general."

 

And what is the general rule?

 

"Suniti, however, being a woman, and specifically his mother, could not

become Dhruva Maharaja's diska-guru." (SB 4.12.32)

 

Like Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Prabhupada, the perfect acarya, who lives

and breathes according to sastra, reconciles what our imperfect senses

consider contradictions by saying:

 

"t is not that woman cannot be acarya. Generally, they do not become.

In very special case. (From transcript of original tape of SP dictating

BGAII intro. 660219BG.NY)

Just like in very special cases someone can go back to Godhead in his

material body. But *generally*, you'd better not count on it!

The following may also be of interest. It is from Jyotirmayi's paper:

SP: Woman is to help her husband.

JM: So the duty of the brahmana is to preach. It is to learn the philosophy.

SP: Yes, to learn and to preach.

JM: And to teach the philosophy. So in our movement, the women have always

preached philosophy, given classes, given lectures.

SP: Oh yes, oh yes. With the husband. She is always helping hand to hand the

husband.... Assistant.

JM: Does that mean that the girls should not give lectures and not give

classes?

SP: Why not? If she is a brahmana's wife, she can give lecture.

JM: Jadurani, for example, now she is no longer with her husband anymore.,

but she is giving classes, she is giving lectures. So is that good?

SP: Yes, yes. Why not? This varnashrama dharma, woman is according to the

husband. That's all. Jadurani is suppose to be a brahmana's wife, her

husband has taken sanyasa, so she can preach.

JM: So women can preach. They can give classes. They can give lectures.

SP: Oh yes.

Who did Prabhupada say could give class? Wives of brahmanas. But the WM

says that ANY woman should be allowed to give class anywhere at any time,

and to anyone. The WM say that ANY woman can should be allowed to become

gbc or diksa guru. Such is simply NOT supported by Srila Prabhupada's words

or example. Why did our GBC allow this to happen?! Dancing dogs??

>I have seen that sometimes the wife of the

>president takes a dominating role in making management decisions and

>directly interacts with the temple brahmacaries. The sincere brahmacaries

>leave because of this and those brahmacaries who want to associate with

>women in the garb of wearing saffron have a great time.

A TP who is a dancing dog in the hands of his wife is disqualified from

being TP! Such weakness is a disgrace and a social liability.

>I am open for comments.

You got'em.

Ys. JMd