. . . I'm better than any karmi!

[Guest guest]

> I'm just joking, Prabhu. I hope you did not take this seriously. Some

> people feel good just because they think they are superior to someone

> else. Thus some of us are pleased to feel superior to the so-called

> "karmis." But, actually, these feeling of superiority are contrary to

the

> mood of Lord Caitanya, and they don't help us on the road back to

Godhead.

>

> Is that more clear for you now?

 

Dear Hare Krsna Mataji:

please accept my humble obeisances. All the glories to Srila

Prabhupada.

 

Oh, yes I understood it know, nowadays sometimes I get frighten when I hear

some tipes of jokes, so I ask to clarify to avoid misunderstoods, may be it

is my lack of english, any way thank you very much for your good humor.

 

BTW; Although you mean to offer me great respect by calling "Prabhu,"

I humbly request you to call me "Mataji." Just like in Spanish,

if you call me "Señor Sridhari," that would not be very proper,

whereas "Señora Sridhari" would be.

In the very same way, "Prabhu" is the masculine gender,

whereas "Prabhvi" is the feminine. But in Vedic culture,

one honors the chaste woman by calling her "Mataji."

So if you *really* want to express respect for this

humble soul, please kindly do not call me "Prabhu."

 

I apreciatte your asociation and good service to Srila Prabhupada. thank

you

 

your servant, Sridhari devi dasi

[Guest guest]

At 21:40 -0300 12/21/1999, COM: Sridhari (dd) JPS (Mendoza - ARG) wrote:

 

>BTW; Although you mean to offer me great respect by calling "Prabhu,"

> I humbly request you to call me "Mataji." Just like in Spanish,

> if you call me "Señor Sridhari," that would not be very proper,

> whereas "Señora Sridhari" would be.

> In the very same way, "Prabhu" is the masculine gender,

> whereas "Prabhvi" is the feminine. But in Vedic culture,

> one honors the chaste woman by calling her "Mataji."

 

 

Below is what Srila Prabhupada had to say on the topic. Certainly he

knew both how to address women and what the feminine and masculine

versions were of different sanskrit words. Yet, as you can see

below, he thought it was both appropriate and respectful to see and

address even women as "prabhu". I hope you're not implying that you

know better than him.

 

See especially the examples in section #4 below, e.g.:

 

My dear Gangamayi,

Please accept my blessings. . . I am glad to hear that you are

determined to stay and live in the temple now and that you are becoming

very much attached to the Deity worship and very serious about serving

the Deity along with Malati Prabhu. . . (May 9, 1974)

 

My Dear Sacimata Prabhu,

Please accept my blessings. I am in receipt of your letter dated 3rd

October 1976 and I have noted the contents carefully. . .

 

Do you think Prabhupada would have written this if it had been *wrong*?

 

While it is certainly all right for a man to think of and address a

woman as "mother" or "mataji", and this has never been objected to,

*no one* to date has shown us any place in which Srila Prabhupada has

directed his *female* disciples and granddisciples to refer to *each

other* that way. Do you really have evidence that the use of such a

title from one woman to another woman is "vedic" or that Srila

Prabhupada instructed women to call each other that?

 

Ys,

Madhusudani dasi

 

SRILA PRABHUPADA ON THE USE OF THE ADDRESS "PRABHU"

 

1. Devotees address each other as “prabhu”

 

We advise everyone to address one another as Prabhu. Prabhu means

master, so how the master should be disobeyed? Others, they are also

pure devotees. All of my disciples are pure devotees. Anyone sincerely

serving the spiritual master is a pure devotee . . . Do not try to make

a faction . . . Amongst ourselves one should respect others as Prabhu,

master, one another. As soon as we distinguish here is a pure devotee,

here is a non-pure devotee, that means I am a nonsense. (letter to Tusta

Krishna December 14, 1972)

 

Any Vaisnava is addressed as prabhu, but Sri Caitanya Mahäprabhu is

Mahäprabhu, the topmost prabhu, the master prabhu. All others are

servant prabhu. . . all Vaisnava should be addressed as prabhu; that is

the etiquette. (CcAdi 7.2 lecture March 2, 1974)

 

In Krishna consciousness we address our contemporaries as ”prabhu.”

Prabhu means master. And the real idea is that “You are my master, I am

your servant.” Just the opposite number. Here, in the material world,

everyone wants to place himself as the master. “I am your master, you

are my servant.” That is the mentality of material existence. And the

spiritual existence means “I am the servant, you are the master.” Just

see. Just the opposite number. (lecture Bg 4.9, June 19, 1968)

 

A real devotee, he does not show any disrespect even to the ant, and

what to speak of the demigods, because he is in knowledge that “Every

living entity is part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. They’re playing

different parts only. So in relationship with the Supreme Lord they’re

all my respectables.” Therefore a devotee is taught to address all his

contemporaries as “Prabhu, my dear sir, my dear lord.” That is the

position of Krishna consciousness. (lecture Bg 7.18 October 12, 1966)

 

2. Women devotees as well as men devotees are addressed as “prabhu”

 

The Lord Caitanya is called Mahäprabhu. Mahän-prabhu. Prabhu, master.

There are different kinds of master, but He’s the mahän-prabhu, the

Supreme Master, Supreme Master, and Purusa at the same time. Prabhu, you

can say... A woman also can become the master. . . (Cc Adi 7.108 lecture

February 18, 1967)

 

Now another thing, that girls should not be taken as inferior. You see?

Sometimes... Of course, sometimes scripture we say that “Woman is the

cause of bondage." So that should not be, I mean to say, aggravated.

(laughs) That should not be aggravated, that “Woman is inferior," or

something like that. So the girls who come, you should treat them nicely

. . After all, anyone who is coming to Krishna consciousness, man or

woman, boys or girls, they are welcome. They are very fortunate. You

see. And the idea of addressing “prabhu" means “you are my master." That

is the... Prabhu means master. And Prabhupäda means many masters who

bows down at his lotus feet. That is Prabhupäda. So each, everyone shall

treat others as “My master." This is the Vaisnava (September 24, 1968

conversation)

 

>From a letter to Himavati Devi Dasi, June 14, 1968:

Yes, to call one another prabhu is all right, but not to become prabhu.

To accept others as prabhu, and remain as servant is the idea. But

because somebody is calling you prabhu, one should not become a prabhu,

and treat others as servants. In other words, everyone should feel

himself as servant, and not to think himself prabhu because he is being

called prabhu. This will make the relationship congenial.

 

3. Even the Spiritual Master sees his disciples as “prabhu"

 

We are teaching our disciples to address amongst themselves “prabhu."

This is not new thing. This is very old. Now Närada is addressing

Vyäsadeva, “prabhu,” his disciple. His disciple, he’s addressing prabhu.

So we should give respect. Just like we address, “Kirtanänanda

Mahäräja.” Although he’s my disciple, but the respect should be given.

Here, see, Närada is addressing Vyäsadeva: “Prabhu." “My dear prabhu. .

(lecture, SB 1.5.1-4, May 22, 1969)

 

A spiritual master takes his disciples as his spiritual master. That is

the position. He thinks that “Krishna has sent me so many spiritual

masters." He does not think himself as spiritual master. He thinks

himself their servant. Because they have to be trained. Krishna has

appointed him to train them. Therefore he thinks himself as servant of

the disciples. This is the position. So when one is advanced, he can see

the importance of devotees.

Advanced devotee never disobey or disrespect another devotee. Disrespect

to another devotee is a great offense. Vaishnava aparädha. Vaishnava

aparädha is very serious offense. Therefore we teach to address amongst

the devotees, “Prabhu”, “Prabhu”, “Such and such Prabhu.” This should

not be simply spoken by the lips. It should be realized. Everyone should

think other devotee as his prabhu, master. Not he should try to become

master.

trnäd api sunicena

taror api sahisnunä

amäninä mänadena...

Mänadena. We should be always ready to offer respect to all, not only

devotees, but everyone. Everyone. Because every living entity is

originally a devotee of Krishna. But circumstantially, being covered by

the coat of mäyä, he’s playing like demon. But his original nature is a

devotee of Krishna. Jivera svarüpa haya nitya krsnera däsa. Everyone is

eternally servant of Krishna. But being influenced by mäyä, when he gets

this body, given by mäyä... Prakrteh kriyamänäni gunaih karmäni

sarvasah, when he’s conducted by the three gunas of mäyä, he thinks

himself otherwise. He thinks himself independent of Krishna. But

actually, nobody is independent of Krishna. (lecture NOD October 23,

1972)

 

4. Srila Prabhupada addressed his male and female disciples as “prabhu”

 

My Dear Ranadhira,

Please accept my blessings. . . Yes, I have all blessings for the happy

marriage of Haladhara Prabhu and Joan Prabhu, so you may immediately do

the needful in this regards. (16 February, 1971)

 

My Dear Rsabhadeva,

Please accept my blessings. . . So long as there is Guru-Gauranga

worship, Yamuna Prabhu may act as pujari . . . (March 25, 1971)

 

Anna Prabhu may be initiated also and she has my blessings for being

married to Puranda at the earliest convenience. (letter to Mukunda April

13, 1971)

 

So the stock of japa beads I brought with me has been depleted. Malati

Prabhu was supposed to have brought some beads with her from India, and

so I would like that those beads be sent immediately to N.Y. center by

air. (letter to Tribhuvanatha July 4, 1971)

 

My Dear Kirtanananda Maharaja, Vrindaban Candra, and Silavati,

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letters

just now received by me here in Calcutta and describing your plans for

travelling Sankirtana party, and it is very much encouraging news for

me. Silavati Prabhu said that this was her long cherished dream. It has

been mine also. . . (November 6, 1971)

 

In Los Angeles I personally advised them in all the different aspects of

deity worship, so you may consult, especially with Silavati Prabhu (now

in Dallas) and do the needful. . . (letter to Sri Govinda, January 31,

1973)

 

My dear Gangamayi,

Please accept my blessings. . . I am glad to hear that you are

determined to stay and live in the temple now and that you are becoming

very much attached to the Deity worship and very serious about serving

the Deity along with Malati Prabhu. . . (May 9, 1974)

 

My Dear Sacimata Prabhu,

Please accept my blessings. I am in receipt of your letter dated 3rd

October 1976 and I have noted the contents carefully. . .

 

 

Conclusion

 

. . there is a place which is full of eternal happiness. So this life

should be engaged for that purpose, not to fight like cats and dogs.

That is not very credit. Credit means ruining one’s life. If one fights

like cats and dogs, he becomes cats and dogs. Nature’s law is very

strict. Therefore we should be very careful not to become like cats and

dogs but to become very humble—humbler than the grass and tolerant than

the tree. Amäninä. Everyone wants that “I am very honorable man,

prestigious man. And you should respect me.” That is our material

disease. “I do not want to respect you, but you should offer me

respect.” This is the position. Therefore our system is to call another

Vaishnava as prabhu. “Sir, you are prabhu, you are master.” But we call

prabhu, but I think, “No, you are not prabhu; I am prabhu. You are

servant.” This cheating process will not help us. Actually, we should

believe that he is prabhu. “He is servant of Krishna; therefore he is my

prabhu.” This is Vaisnava mentality. Gopi-bhartur pada-kamalayor

däsa-däsa-däsa-däsänudäsa. One who wants to become servant of the

servant of the servant of the servant, he is actually prabhu. If falsely

one thinks that “I am prabhu,” then his life is spoiled. So this word we

use amongst ourself, prabhu, means that “I am your servant, you are my

master.” But that should be practically exhibited. That is called

tapasya, to learn all these things. (lecture SB 5.5.1, October 23, 1976)

[Guest guest]

>1. Devotees address each other as “prabhu”

 

I älso heäred thät präbhvi is the corect feminin term of präbhu.

[Guest guest]

At 22:10 +0100 12/22/1999, COM: Harsi (das) HKS (Timisoara - RO) wrote:

>[Text 2878199 from COM]

>

> >1. Devotees address each other as "prabhu"

>

>I älso heäred thät präbhvi is the corect feminin term of präbhu.

 

That's certainly what our sankritists tell us, but then how come

Srila Prabhupada didn't write that to and about his female disciples?

He obviously didn't think it was an important distinction to make, or

he would have made it, no?

 

Ys,

Madhusudani dasi

[Guest guest]

>That's certainly what our sankritists tell us, but then how come

>Srila Prabhupada didn't write that to and about his female disciples?

>He obviously didn't think it was an important distinction to make, or

>he would have made it, no?

 

>Ys,

>Madhusudani dasi

 

What to say? Good night, it,s time for me to rest here in Romania. I guess

in Ämerica it,s still day.

[Guest guest]

My Dear Madhusudani Radha dd prabhu mataji, Please accept my humble

obeisances.

 

I find it curious that after you have repeatedly admonished others for using a

long string of quotes to prove a point, that you have used more quotes in one

post than I have ever seen others use whom you have instructed that it was

unacceptable. I do not mean to be disrespectful, but what gives. When it

concerns others whom you have some control over, you tell them not to do this,

and you give your usual reasons. Some have complained and have found this

intimidating and difficult to accept, but have had to accept because you

censure those who do not go along with your arbitrary rules. So why, when it

is to your advantage to prove your own point (of seeming minimal importance),

do you do what you have tried to oppress in others. It really makes me wonder.

To be honest, I find it ironic, hypocritical, and humorous. Respectfully

Mahananda dasa

[Guest guest]

Mahananda Dasa wrote:

>I find it curious that after you have repeatedly admonished others for using a

>long string of quotes to prove a point, that you have used more quotes in one

>post than I have ever seen others use whom you have instructed that it was

>unacceptable. I do not mean to be disrespectful, but what gives.

 

 

Dear Mahananda Prabhu,

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

I think you may have your conferences confused. The quotes rule

applies only to one conference on COM as far as I know. I posted the

quotes to the Varnasrama develoment conference, which has a different

set of rules and where long quotes are frequently posted.

 

It's pretty simple: Different conferences have different rules to

enable the particular goals and objectives of each.

 

On TD, I don't post long quotes (which was actually a rule first set

up by the COM sysop when the conference started), however, on VAD I

occasionally do. There are many other such examples of differences

in behavior: On Deity the worship conference, I ask questions about

Deity worship, however on JPSEM, I discuss how to help my spiritual

master distribute his tapes. Same with other conference members.

Most people don't seem to be having any problems making those

distinctions, yet you seem so diturbed by these differences. So

maybe it should be I who ask you "What gives?"

 

I also find it curious that you of all people would object to reading

this collection of quotes by our Founder-Acarya (compiled by Visakha

Prabhu). Her document is an excellent reminder of how we need to be

treating each other. Could it be that you're objecting because these

particular quotes don't support your viewpoint?

 

Ys,

Madhusudani dasi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/24/1999 11:49:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,

ekstrand (AT) slip (DOT) net writes:

 

> Dear Mahananda Prabhu,

>

> Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

>

> I think you may have your conferences confused. The quotes rule

> applies only to one conference on COM as far as I know. I posted the

> quotes to the Varnasrama develoment conference, which has a different

> set of rules and where long quotes are frequently posted.

>

> It's pretty simple: Different conferences have different rules to

> enable the particular goals and objectives of each.

>

> On TD, I don't post long quotes (which was actually a rule first set

> up by the COM sysop when the conference started), however, on VAD I

> occasionally do. There are many other such examples of differences

> in behavior: On Deity the worship conference, I ask questions about

> Deity worship, however on JPSEM, I discuss how to help my spiritual

> master distribute his tapes. Same with other conference members.

> Most people don't seem to be having any problems making those

> distinctions, yet you seem so diturbed by these differences. So

> maybe it should be I who ask you "What gives?"

>

 

Thank you for your kind explaination. I dont have a problem...I was just

asking. I assumed you had prevented others on your conference to use long

quotes because of some strong conviction on your part against the practice.

Assuming this, I was just asking why you would do yourself. Please forgive

me if i was impolite. Sometimes I write things too hastily.

 

 

> I also find it curious that you of all people would object to reading

> this collection of quotes by our Founder-Acarya (compiled by Visakha

> Prabhu). Her document is an excellent reminder of how we need to be

> treating each other. Could it be that you're objecting because these

> particular quotes don't support your viewpoint?

 

No, No! I do not object. And no, of course I don t do as you are suggesting.

I question was about you, not what was in the quotes.

 

Madhusudrani Radha,, I always seem to rub you the wrong way. If we met maybe

you will see that I am only about 90 % as bad as you thought. I think you are

in my life to act as my mirror. Thank you do much for that. Growth is pain

but no pain, no gain. My humble regards, Mahananda dasa

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 23 Dec 1999, WWW: Mahananda (Dasa) ACBSP (Alachua FL - USA) wrote:

 

> [Text 2882267 from COM]

>

> My Dear Madhusudani Radha dd prabhu mataji, Please accept my humble

> obeisances.

>

> I find it curious that after you have repeatedly admonished others for using

a

> long string of quotes to prove a point, that you have used more quotes in one

> post than I have ever seen others use whom you have instructed that it was

> unacceptable. I do not mean to be disrespectful, but what gives. When it

> concerns others whom you have some control over, you tell them not to do

this,

> and you give your usual reasons. Some have complained and have found this

> intimidating and difficult to accept, but have had to accept because you

> censure those who do not go along with your arbitrary rules. So why, when it

> is to your advantage to prove your own point (of seeming minimal importance),

> do you do what you have tried to oppress in others. It really makes me

wonder.

> To be honest, I find it ironic, hypocritical, and humorous. Respectfully

> Mahananda dasa

 

Hare Krsna dasi comments:

 

Mahananda prabhu and others,

 

Could I please ask a favor? When you post a note blasting another

devotee, please don't sign it "respectfully" or "your most humble

servant" or "I don't mean any offense by this." It's disturbing when you

do this.

 

Truthfulness is the last leg of religion, so in the interest of everyone's

spiritual advancement let's try to refrain from this mode of sarcastic

exchange.