Occam's razor: What constitutes proof? The sound vibrated by the

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Wow! Free forum has exploded!.

 

This is getting really interesting. Guru Krsna Prabhu brought up some good

points. Also today this was posted, by Pancha Tattva Prabhu:

 

"Dry arguments are inconclusive. A great personality whose opinion does not

differ from others is not considered a great sage. Simply by studying the

Vedas, which are variegated, one cannot come to the right path by which

religious principles are understood. The solid truth of religious principles

is hidden in the heart of an unadulterated self-realized person.

Consequently, as the shastras confirm, one should accept whatever

progressive path the mahajanas advocate."

 

That is a fantastic quote, can you give us an exact reference?

 

Here is more proof that even though the sastras such as Srimad Bhagavatam

are incontrovertible proofs, they canot be understood unless one hears them

from a fully self realised person.

 

Prabhupada said in a lecture in Rome, May 27th 1974:

"Unless one is svanubhavam, self realised [unless his] life is Bhagavat, he

cannot preach Bhagavat. That will not be effective. A gramaphone will not

help. Therfore Caitanya Mahaprabhu's secretary, Svarupa Damodara,

reccomended, bhagavata pora giya bhagavata sthane, that "if you want to read

Srimad Bhagavatam, you must approach a person who is life giving Bhagavata"

Bhagavata pora giya bhagavata sthana. Otherwise there is no question of

Bhagavata realisation.........

There are many scriptures, many religious scriptures, especially the Vedas.

Sruti means Veda. Sruti is learned by hearing, not by reading. You can

understand Vedic principle even though you are illiterate, provided you hear

them, aural reception. God has given you the ear. And if you try to hear

submissively, to hear something, then it will be fruitful."

 

>From the Nectar of Devotion: Page 89-90

In the Fourth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, Twenty-ninth Chapter, verse 40,

the importance of hearing of the pastimes of the Lord is stated by Sukadeva

Goswami to Maharaja Pariksit: "My dear King, one should stay at a place

where the great acaryas [holy teachers] speak about the transcendental

activities of the Lord, and one should give aural reception to the nectarean

river flowing from the moonlike faces of such great personalities. If

someone eagerly continues to hear such transcendental sounds, then certainly

he will become freed from all material hunger, thirst and lamentation, as

well as all illusions of material existence".

 

"Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu also recommended this process of hearing as a means

of self-realisation in the present age of Kali. In this age it is very

difficult to follow thoroughly the regulative principles and *studies*

(emphasis mine) of the Vedas which were formerly recommended. However, if

ones gives aural reception to the sound vibrated by great devotees, and

acaryas, that alone will give relief from all material contamination.

Therefore it is the recommendation of Caitanya Mahaprabhu that one should

simply hear from authorities who are actualy devotees of the Lord. Hearing

from professional men will not help. If we hear from those who are actualy

SELF REALISED (emphasis mine), then the nectarean rivers, like those which

are flowing on the moon planet, will flow into our ears. This is the

metaphor used in the above verse."

 

Of course some people use these kinds of texts to lure people out of ISKCON.

I dont want to make this post too long, but of course Prabhupada refutes

such ideas also.

 

Your servant

Samba das

 

Guru Krsna Prabhu wrote:

 

> According to HDG Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja:

>

> "When the question of *pramana-tattva* comes up, we should know which

> evidence is the real and correct evidence...

>

>

> srimad bhagavatam pramanam amalam

> prema pumartha mahan

> sri-caitanya mahaprabhor matam idam

> tatradarah na parah

> (Caitanya-matta-manjusa)

>

>

> "Caitanya Mahaprabhhu has said that the Srimad-Bhagavatam is the spotless

> proof--*pramanam amalam*. Srimad-Bhagavatam is the essence of all Vedic

> literature--*sarva-vedanta-saram hi srimad-bhagavatam isyate* (SB

> 12.13.15)

>

> "And Mahaprabhu gave his opinion that Srimad-Bhagavatam is the spotless

> proof. We accept it because *prema-bhakti-tattva* has been described in

> this Srimad-Bhagavatam.

>

> "Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Prabhupada has said 'If all the

> different books of all the departments of knowledge from the libraries of

> the world will be destroyed, there will be no loss at all if only one

> Srimad-Bhagavatam is there.' Srimad-Bhagavatam is such a *sastra*. The

> essence of all Vedas and the spotless proof--*amala pramana*. *Tatradarah

> na parah*--if you quote Bhagavatam then that is proof. We will not accept

> that proof which is not accepted by Bhagavatam." (Flow of Nectar, p 27-8)