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Should this be put on Answers to KC questions?

 

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Comment 10700 (214 lines)

Jayapataka Swami

26-Jul-99 02:39

Vidvan Gauranga (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN)

Nikhilananda (das) ACBSP (D)

Cc: vipramukhya Swami

Reference: Text COM:2503420 by Vidvan Gauranga (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN)

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Home Base: Sri Mayapur Candrodaya Mandir, Navadwip Dham, Nadia, WB, INDIA

 

 

> > My Dear Godbrother Nikhilananda Dasa,

> >

> > Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

> > Thankyou for your letter cited below with my comments. I have noted the

> > contents carefully. I don't know why I was graced with a personal copy

> > of your letter but I am grateful for it.

> >

> > What is the practical proposal as to how this would work? Everyone is

> > authorized to initiate without any checks or balances?

> >

> > Why do you say the GBC appoints Gurus. They don't appoint Gurus. Srila

> > Prabhupada has authorized and ordered all his disciples to be Spiritual

> > Masters. Simply the GBC is authorizing them to execute that order

> > within ISKCON based on local recommendations. Now what is it you are

> > proposing. It sounds great but sounds totally vague to me.

> >

> > Sorry, but I can't decipher your proposal. I like the idea of

> > Godbrothers being close together.

> >

> > Your servant,

> >

> > Jayapataka Swami

>

> Dear Guru Maharaja, PAMRO. AGTSP.

>

> But how do we understand the following statement by Srila Prabhupada (and

> there are similar ones)?

>

> "I want that all of my spiritual sons and daughters will inherit this

> title of Bhaktivedanta, so that the family transcendental diploma will

> continue through the generations. Those possessing the title of

> Bhaktivedanta WILL BE ALLOWED TO INITIATE disciples. Maybe by 1975,

> all

> of my disciples will be allowed to initiate and increase the numbers

> of

> the generations. That is my program." [Emphasis mine]

>

> Here Srila Prabhupada states that those who have the objective

> qualifications of Bhaktivedanta "will be allowed" to initiate. He didn't

> say that any of his disciples can be gurus. He says that all of his sons

> and daughters become *qualified* and become Bhaktivedantas and THEN those

> who have that qualification will be *ALLOWED* to initiate.

 

Srila Prabhupada repeated this point about being qualified. He also said he

wanted all of his disciples to become Spiritual Masters as that was the Law

of disciplic succession that each disciple should become a spiritual master

after his Spiritual Master and increase the Caitanya Tree of disciplic

succession.

 

Obviously some system of "Allowing" devotees to accept initiated disciples

is needed. Srila Prabhupada never said that automatically everyone should

initiate after his departure. If he had wanted that then he could have

expressed it, but in April, 1977 in Bombay Srila Prabhupada also mentioned

he would name some devotees to become guru, but they had to become

qualified. Srila Prabhupada stressed the simple qualification was to

sincerely follow the previous Spiritual Master. We have seen in ISKCON that

when anyone stops following Srila Prabhupada then it creates a disturbance.

 

In this regard I don't see what the GBC is doing wrong in having some system

of approving, or giving "no objection" to a devotee executing this

devotional service. Even though the GBC technically doesn't object it

amounts to an approval in one form or another. I am waiting to hear from

Nikhilananda Prabhu how he envisions Srila Prabhupada's desires for

"allowing" devotees to accept initiated disciples should be enacted in

ISKCON. If there is a better procedure I am willing to submit it to the

GBC. Srila Prabhupada indicated that some basic qualifications had to be

there to initiate as you have illustrated in your above quote about

Bhaktivedanta Degree as a qualification.

 

Once the principle of minimum qualification is established then

someone/some-body has to decide who meets those qualifications or not. Then

with that comes the acceptance and approval. I don't know how one can get

around it. If someone is truly representing Srila Prabhupada and the

disciplic succession then he is due respected as a representative of Vyasa

Deva. However, the etiquette is that disciples offer that respect in a

formal way.

 

> Just like Srila Prabhupada also said that those who are Bhakti-sastris can

> become brahmanas and those who are Bhakti-vaibhavas can become sannyasis.

> In another letter, Srila Prabhupada states that along with each level of

> exam, their behavior/conduct has to be examined.

 

This is clear. Do you have those quotes handy?

 

> Since we can't just say that anyone can function as a brahmana without

> fulfilling the objective criteria to be a brahmana, nor can we say that

> anyone can function as a sannyasi without fulfilling the objective

> criteria to be a sannyasi, what would be the justification to say that

> anyone can initiate without fulfilling an objective criteria? Just a

> brahmanas are "appointed" and sannyasis are "appointed" in a sense,

> initiating gurus also have to be "appointed" based on objective criteria.

> Everyone can become a guru if they have fulfilled the criteria, just as

> anyone can become a brahmana/sannyasi if they have fulfilled the criteria.

 

You are equating initiating a brahmana or initiating a sannyasi as an

"appointment". Never thought of it like that, but in one sense the GBC

gives its approval and then the sannyas guru can give the initiation which

places one in the sannyas asram. If that is considered an "appointment"

then it can be seen like that also. Without being accepted by a "sannyasa

guru" and the GBC giving its approval one can't become a sannyasi. So far I

haven't heard of anyone objecting to that procedure. It is a good point

that since initiating disciples is said by Srila Prabhupada to require a

higher degree then some system of examining or approval is required and that

should be higher than for being a sannyasi. For accepting sannyasa asrama

there is a waiting list, but for accepting disciples as a diksa guru there

is currently no such formal waiting list.

 

In the case of serving as a diksa guru there is no "initiation" into being a

diksa guru. Srila Prabhupada and Lord Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu have

already ordered everyone to become Spiritual Masters and that includes

becoming diksa gurus. The only thing is one should be qualified. The basic

qualification is following the previous acarya and Founder-Acarya strictly.

 

So in the absence of Srila Prabhupada's directly allowing devotees to

accept disciples, some kind of institutional review system is required to

verify if devotees meet basic requirements to execute the devotional service

as an initiating Spiritual Master. Since Srila Prabhupada stated in his Will

that the GBC is the Ultimate Managing Authority in ISKCON then they should

create the system for verifying if one meets the basic qualifications.

Since the GBC didn't know many candidates personally local committees were

assigned with the responsibility to verify and nominate persons they felt

were qualified. In case something was questionable a GBC member could

object. If there were enough or serious objections then the matter could

come to the whole GBC for resolution. That is the system as we have it

today.

 

I don't see how being allowed to act as an initiating Spiritual Master for

one's initiated disciples is like being approved to be a brahmana or

sannyasi. A brahmana is further strengthened in connection to the parampara

by becoming a second initiated devotee. A Sannyasa is a change of asrama

which brings various responsibilities and one has a sannyasa guru who is

somewhat responsible for giving guidance in executing the sannyasa asrama.

Although initiating disciples and being an initiating Spiritual Master

(Diksa Guru) for them is a very responsible devotional service and it brings

with it various responsibilities towards the disciples, the institution,

Srila Prabhupada, the disciplic succession and Lord Sri Krishna it doesn't

change the connection with the parampara nor the asrama of a devotee by

being a Spiritual Master.

 

What might change is the protocol and dealings since they are to be applied

according to vaisnava etiquette in accordance with how much responsibility

an individual has in caring for other devotees spiritual lives. If someone

is responsibly carrying out this delicate and weighty responsibility then he

is offered respect in vaisnava society. That responsibility and care for

devotees may not only be through diksa but also as a siksa guru or as a

responsible spiritual leader in Krishna consciousness. Taking

responsibility in devotional service to Srila Prabhupada and Lord Sri

Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu is something to be appreciated according to

established etiquette. For that matter all brahmanas and vaisnavas have

been offered respect for their connection and dearness to the Supreme

Personality of Godhead since time immemorial.

 

> So naturally, doesn't the GBC seem to be right in ALLOWING some to

> initiate based on objective criteria (and the criteria should be higher

> than that for brahmana and sannyasa)?

 

It would logically follow that the GBC has not only the right, but the

obligation to set up a basic criteria, following the instructions of Srila

Prabhupada, to "allow" qualified devotees to initiate disciples into the

disciplic succession. If the GBC doesn't do so then who will? As you have

rightly pointed out Srila Prabhupada has indicated some minimum

qualification had to be there prior to being allowed to initiate disciples.

 

This may be another point, but I would like to see the GBC become more

pro-active in identifying and training all devotees to accept this

devotional service so that Srila Prabhupada's desires for expanding the

number of initiated disciples coming in his spiritual family can increase

more and more. Without more qualified devotees initiating then how will the

Krishna consciousness movement expand? Steps are needed to be taken to

insure that the number of qualified new Spiritual Masters allowed to

initiate disciples increases to fulfill this important need for preaching.

 

> Devotees whom I have met (Srila Prabhupada's grand-disciples) say that

> right now the criteria for allowing devotees to serve as diksa-gurus is

> too light and the GBC should make it more strict. So perhaps the criteria

> needs to be tightened?

 

You can suggest what areas need to be tightened. Seems like most of the

areas are covered, but the local committee is supposed to verify if they are

qualified. No clear minimum voting majority is mentioned. Whether the "ten

man committee" who nominate someone for rendering the service as an

initiating Spiritual Master need to do so unanimously, or by 2/3rd's vote or

by simple majority. It isn't specified. I would presume it should be

unanimous since it states that a ten man committee should nominate, but it

is subject to interpretation. What areas do devotees suggest be

"tightened"? If I hear of them I can propose to the GBC body if they are

reasonable.

 

> But definitely there has been an overemphasis on worshipping/respecting

> diksa-gurus because devotees' spiritual lives are very much molded by many

> siksa-gurus.

 

Yes. A system for establishing proper vaisnava etiquette in honoring and

respecting all vaisnavas appropriately is needed. Not only diksa gurus

should be respected by their disciples, but siksa gurus and other senior

vaisnavas should also be respected as has been practised since time

immemorial in dealings between devotees. For example, Lord Sri Krishna

personally demonstrated the importance of respecting a senior godbrother in

his reception and worship of Vipra Sudama.

 

Thankyou for your nice question and letter. i hope your doubts have been

cleared up.

 

> Your eternal servant,

> VGDas

 

I hope that this finds you in good health.

 

Your well wisher,

 

Jayapataka Swami

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