History in ISKCON

[Guest guest]

"COM: Malati (dd) ACBSP (Columbus - USA)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2769531 from COM]

>

> Hare Krishna..Is there documentation proof as of this horror storey?

> (ie:some kind of facts to verify the statements?) I think this is very

> important in order to get your points across effectively and insure an

> adequate response.

> I could not eat lunch today as a result of reading your letter. Children,

> women, cows,....what/who is next?

 

Malati Prabhu--

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

I'm not sure whether you are addressing me directly. (I never know if

devotees are addressing me unless they call me Hare Krsna dasi or Mother Hare

Krsna -- that's a life-long joke my spiritual master played on me.)

 

Anyway, as for documentation. I have given what I could. The FBI has a

saying: "There is no justice without investigation." In general, our policy

in ISKCON has been: We don't investigate. The Child Protection Office (is

that the correct name) is fortunately changing that. Investigation --

especially by impartial and thorough outside investigators -- costs money,

and unfortunately we have never wanted to spend that money to investigate

whether certain charges are factual. It's almost like a Catch 22 in ISKCON:

Don't bring up these allegations until we have investigated to see if they are

true. And when do you plan to do that investigation? -- Never!

 

On the other hand, I have only quoted from sources whom I personally feel are

credible. For example, when a devotee with the strength of character and

reputation for competent cow care of the stature of Syamasundara prabhu states

that the mathematics for the Vrndavana and Mayapura gosalla indicates that

hundreds of cows are missing from what should be there, I give him very strong

credence. His logic is very strong.

 

The fact that the GBC's have never investigated this situation and have never

made any public apology for the unfortunate history of their projects is very

disturbing to me. In fact, I must say that it makes me question their

qualification as spiritual leaders.

 

I am happy to see that you personally are working on reports for New

Vrndavana, etc. Much better late than never. The past history of New

Vrndavana should also be investigated. Once again, as Vyapaka prabhu points

out, the mathematics do not add up. According to the number of cows they bred

per year, there should be many more cows there. The situation is somewhat

awkward because is seems that much of the problem took place while New

Vrndavana was not part of ISKCON. Nevertheless, those cows originally

belonged to ISKCON. They did not leave ISKCON when the leader of their

community became a demon. They were trapped there. So, still ultimately, we

should take the responsibility.

 

On the other hand, any community can, on its own investigate its record of

abuses -- to the cows, to the children, to the women, and even to other

devotees -- it can work to come up with its true history, no matter how

shameful that history may be. Then it can present that history before the

devotees, before Srila Prabhupada and before the Deities. It can pray for

forgiveness and pray for the intelligence and the spirit of cooperation to

rectify the sins of the past. Out of such an act of purification can come

great hope and a very practical lesson for generations of the future not to

repeat our grievous errors.

 

I feel very strongly that much of our current troubles of quarrels come from

our failure to come to grips with our shameful history of cow abuse in

ISKCON. The GBC where abuse has occurred probably have a good idea of what

has happened. Certainly it is their duty to Srila Prabhupada to make sure

that the management of all their communities is going nicely. If cows are

being abused, it means that "all the affairs of management [are going] to

hell" as Srila Prabhupada states in the Seventh Canto.

 

How can ISKCON progress unless we atone for our offenses to Krsna's

messengers, the cows?

 

But it is so much more than simply clearing out the bad karma from our sins of

the past (or even of the present). If only we will investigate this situation

with the cows, when we seriously look for the answers to solve the problem we

will change our way of life in a manner that will be much more conducive to

Krsna consciousness.

 

Sarve sukhino bhavantu -- Make Everyone Happy -- is what Srila Prabhupada said

many times. And that begins with the cows. If we make arrangements so that

the cows can actually be taken care of nicely, it will require a complete

social restructuring. And that complete restructuring, to "thoroughly

overhaul society" as Prabhupada put it, will be into a society where everyone

is treated well, and everyone is encouraged in his or her service to Krsna.

 

You ask what is next? What is next is abuse of the elderly -- that's you and

me in a very few more years. That's really what is next -- unless we clean up

ISKCON and beg Krsna for forgiveness for our spiritual blindness and our sins

of the past.

 

Children, women, cows.... I just have to say that I was not surprised that

Vrndavana, which is noted for its history of child abuse, and which has

evidently lost several hundred cows over the years, was the site of the recent

beatings of women. Vrndavana has never publicly apologized for its history of

child abuse or cow abuse. This indicates a very weak spiritual leadership.

Thus, I am not at all surprised to hear about women abuse. These things are

all connected. Without a doubt there are many sincere devotees living and

serving Prabhupada there, including the current cowherd. However, when the

leadership is so weak that it will not apologize instantly and seek atonement

for all its abuses to the children and cows and women, it creates a great

handicap for the general spiritual advancement of our society.

 

The question must be asked: Are people who will not uphold the principles

taught by Srila Prabhupada and the laws of ISKCON fit to be our spiritual

leaders?

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

[Guest guest]

What is this "beating of women in Vrindaban"? As far as I heard the reports

were grossly exaggerated and the matter has been completely resolved.

 

Please clarify.

 

Your servant, Bhaktarupa Das

 

 

> "COM: Malati (dd) ACBSP (Columbus - USA)" wrote:

>

> > [Text 2769531 from COM]

> >

> > Hare Krishna..Is there documentation proof as of this horror storey?

> > (ie:some kind of facts to verify the statements?) I think this is very

> > important in order to get your points across effectively and insure an

> > adequate response.

> > I could not eat lunch today as a result of reading your letter.

> > Children,

> > women, cows,....what/who is next?

>

> Malati Prabhu--

>

> Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

>

> I'm not sure whether you are addressing me directly. (I never know if

> devotees are addressing me unless they call me Hare Krsna dasi or Mother

> Hare Krsna -- that's a life-long joke my spiritual master played on me.)

>

> Anyway, as for documentation. I have given what I could. The FBI has a

> saying: "There is no justice without investigation." In general, our

> policy in ISKCON has been: We don't investigate. The Child Protection

> Office (is that the correct name) is fortunately changing that.

> Investigation -- especially by impartial and thorough outside

> investigators -- costs money, and unfortunately we have never wanted to

> spend that money to investigate whether certain charges are factual. It's

> almost like a Catch 22 in ISKCON: Don't bring up these allegations until

> we have investigated to see if they are true. And when do you plan to do

> that investigation? -- Never!

>

> On the other hand, I have only quoted from sources whom I personally feel

> are credible. For example, when a devotee with the strength of character

> and reputation for competent cow care of the stature of Syamasundara

> prabhu states that the mathematics for the Vrndavana and Mayapura gosalla

> indicates that hundreds of cows are missing from what should be there, I

> give him very strong credence. His logic is very strong.

>

> investigated this situation and have never

> made any public apology for the unfortunate history of their projects is

> very disturbing to me. In fact, I must say that it makes me question

> their qualification as spiritual leaders.

>

> I am happy to see that you personally are working on reports for New

> Vrndavana, etc. Much better late than never. The past history of New

> Vrndavana should also be investigated. Once again, as Vyapaka prabhu

> points out, the mathematics do not add up. According to the number of

> cows they bred per year, there should be many more cows there. The

> situation is somewhat awkward because is seems that much of the problem

> took place while New Vrndavana was not part of ISKCON. Nevertheless,

> those cows originally belonged to ISKCON. They did not leave ISKCON when

> the leader of their community became a demon. They were trapped there.

> So, still ultimately, we should take the responsibility.

>

> On the other hand, any community can, on its own investigate its record of

> abuses -- to the cows, to the children, to the women, and even to other

> devotees -- it can work to come up with its true history, no matter how

> shameful that history may be. Then it can present that history before the

> devotees, before Srila Prabhupada and before the Deities. It can pray for

> forgiveness and pray for the intelligence and the spirit of cooperation to

> rectify the sins of the past. Out of such an act of purification can come

> great hope and a very practical lesson for generations of the future not

> to repeat our grievous errors.

>

> I feel very strongly that much of our current troubles of quarrels come

> from our failure to come to grips with our shameful history of cow abuse

> in ISKCON. The GBC where abuse has occurred probably have a good idea of

> what has happened. Certainly it is their duty to Srila Prabhupada to make

> sure that the management of all their communities is going nicely. If

> cows are being abused, it means that "all the affairs of management [are

> going] to hell" as Srila Prabhupada states in the Seventh Canto.

>

> How can ISKCON progress unless we atone for our offenses to Krsna's

> messengers, the cows?

>

> But it is so much more than simply clearing out the bad karma from our

> sins of the past (or even of the present). If only we will investigate

> this situation with the cows, when we seriously look for the answers to

> solve the problem we will change our way of life in a manner that will be

> much more conducive to Krsna consciousness.

>

> Sarve sukhino bhavantu -- Make Everyone Happy -- is what Srila Prabhupada

> said many times. And that begins with the cows. If we make arrangements

> so that the cows can actually be taken care of nicely, it will require a

> complete social restructuring. And that complete restructuring, to

> "thoroughly overhaul society" as Prabhupada put it, will be into a society

> where everyone is treated well, and everyone is encouraged in his or her

> service to Krsna.

>

> You ask what is next? What is next is abuse of the elderly -- that's you

> and me in a very few more years. That's really what is next -- unless we

> clean up ISKCON and beg Krsna for forgiveness for our spiritual blindness

> and our sins of the past.

>

> Children, women, cows.... I just have to say that I was not surprised

> that Vrndavana, which is noted for its history of child abuse, and which

> has evidently lost several hundred cows over the years, was the site of

> the recent beatings of women. Vrndavana has never publicly apologized for

> its history of child abuse or cow abuse. This indicates a very weak

> spiritual leadership. Thus, I am not at all surprised to hear about women

> abuse. These things are all connected. Without a doubt there are many

> sincere devotees living and serving Prabhupada there, including the

> current cowherd. However, when the leadership is so weak that it will not

> apologize instantly and seek atonement for all its abuses to the children

> and cows and women, it creates a great handicap for the general spiritual

> advancement of our society.

>

> The question must be asked: Are people who will not uphold the principles

> taught by Srila Prabhupada and the laws of ISKCON fit to be our spiritual

> leaders?

>

> your servant,

>

> Hare Krsna dasi

[Guest guest]

> What is this "beating of women in Vrindaban"? As far as I heard the

> reports were grossly exaggerated and the matter has been completely

> resolved.

> Please clarify.

> Your servant, Bhaktarupa Das

 

This letter of Hare Krsna dasi is mainly about cow protection. When you know

that most of the current GBCs failed to send even 2 reports a year for the

cows in their area to the cow ministry, as it had been agreed upon in the

meetings, you may sincerely doubt their skills as managers. The matter

concerning women may have been 'completely resolved' but the issue

concerning ISKCON cows has not been resolved. This was her main concern. She

is not in GBC restructure but she can be contacted to

'archives (AT) earthlink (DOT) net'; She gives the address of the Bhaktivedanta

Archives for further correspondance in her book "Speaking about varnasrama"

vol.1. Your servant, Krsna-kirtana dasi.

 

> > "COM: Malati (dd) ACBSP (Columbus - USA)" wrote:

> >

> > > [Text 2769531 from COM]

> > >

> > > Hare Krishna..Is there documentation proof as of this horror storey?

> > > (ie:some kind of facts to verify the statements?) I think this is very

> > > important in order to get your points across effectively and insure an

> > > adequate response.

> > > I could not eat lunch today as a result of reading your letter.

> > > Children,

> > > women, cows,....what/who is next?

> >

> > Malati Prabhu--

> > Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

> >

> > I'm not sure whether you are addressing me directly. (I never know if

> > devotees are addressing me unless they call me Hare Krsna dasi or Mother

> > Hare Krsna -- that's a life-long joke my spiritual master played on me.)

> >

> > Anyway, as for documentation. I have given what I could. The FBI has a

> > saying: "There is no justice without investigation." In general, our

> > policy in ISKCON has been: We don't investigate. The Child Protection

> > Office (is that the correct name) is fortunately changing that.

> > Investigation -- especially by impartial and thorough outside

> > investigators -- costs money, and unfortunately we have never wanted to

> > spend that money to investigate whether certain charges are factual.

> > It's almost like a Catch 22 in ISKCON: Don't bring up these allegations

> > until we have investigated to see if they are true. And when do you

> > plan to do that investigation? -- Never!

> >

> > On the other hand, I have only quoted from sources whom I personally

> > feel are credible. For example, when a devotee with the strength of

> > character and reputation for competent cow care of the stature of

> > Syamasundara prabhu states that the mathematics for the Vrndavana and

> > Mayapura gosalla indicates that hundreds of cows are missing from what

> > should be there, I give him very strong credence. His logic is very

> > strong.

> >

> > investigated this situation and have never

> > made any public apology for the unfortunate history of their projects is

> > very disturbing to me. In fact, I must say that it makes me question

> > their qualification as spiritual leaders.

> >

> > I am happy to see that you personally are working on reports for New

> > Vrndavana, etc. Much better late than never. The past history of New

> > Vrndavana should also be investigated. Once again, as Vyapaka prabhu

> > points out, the mathematics do not add up. According to the number of

> > cows they bred per year, there should be many more cows there. The

> > situation is somewhat awkward because is seems that much of the problem

> > took place while New Vrndavana was not part of ISKCON. Nevertheless,

> > those cows originally belonged to ISKCON. They did not leave ISKCON

> > when the leader of their community became a demon. They were trapped

> > there. So, still ultimately, we should take the responsibility.

> >

> > On the other hand, any community can, on its own investigate its record

> > of abuses -- to the cows, to the children, to the women, and even to

> > other devotees -- it can work to come up with its true history, no

> > matter how shameful that history may be. Then it can present that

> > history before the devotees, before Srila Prabhupada and before the

> > Deities. It can pray for forgiveness and pray for the intelligence and

> > the spirit of cooperation to rectify the sins of the past. Out of such

> > an act of purification can come great hope and a very practical lesson

> > for generations of the future not to repeat our grievous errors.

> >

> > I feel very strongly that much of our current troubles of quarrels come

> > from our failure to come to grips with our shameful history of cow abuse

> > in ISKCON. The GBC where abuse has occurred probably have a good idea

> > of what has happened. Certainly it is their duty to Srila Prabhupada to

> > make sure that the management of all their communities is going nicely.

> > If cows are being abused, it means that "all the affairs of management

> > [are going] to hell" as Srila Prabhupada states in the Seventh Canto.

> >

> > How can ISKCON progress unless we atone for our offenses to Krsna's

> > messengers, the cows?

> >

> > But it is so much more than simply clearing out the bad karma from our

> > sins of the past (or even of the present). If only we will investigate

> > this situation with the cows, when we seriously look for the answers to

> > solve the problem we will change our way of life in a manner that will

> > be much more conducive to Krsna consciousness.

> >

> > Sarve sukhino bhavantu -- Make Everyone Happy -- is what Srila

> > Prabhupada said many times. And that begins with the cows. If we make

> > arrangements so that the cows can actually be taken care of nicely, it

> > will require a complete social restructuring. And that complete

> > restructuring, to "thoroughly overhaul society" as Prabhupada put it,

> > will be into a society where everyone is treated well, and everyone is

> > encouraged in his or her service to Krsna.

> >

> > You ask what is next? What is next is abuse of the elderly -- that's

> > you and me in a very few more years. That's really what is next --

> > unless we clean up ISKCON and beg Krsna for forgiveness for our

> > spiritual blindness and our sins of the past.

> >

> > Children, women, cows.... I just have to say that I was not surprised

> > that Vrndavana, which is noted for its history of child abuse, and which

> > has evidently lost several hundred cows over the years, was the site of

> > the recent beatings of women. Vrndavana has never publicly apologized

> > for its history of child abuse or cow abuse. This indicates a very weak

> > spiritual leadership. Thus, I am not at all surprised to hear about

> > women abuse. These things are all connected. Without a doubt there are

> > many sincere devotees living and serving Prabhupada there, including the

> > current cowherd. However, when the leadership is so weak that it will

> > not apologize instantly and seek atonement for all its abuses to the

> > children and cows and women, it creates a great handicap for the general

> > spiritual advancement of our society.

> >

> > The question must be asked: Are people who will not uphold the

> > principles taught by Srila Prabhupada and the laws of ISKCON fit to be

> > our spiritual leaders?

> >

> > your servant,

> >

> > Hare Krsna dasi