Guest guest Posted June 25, 2001 Report Share Posted June 25, 2001 Sriramji, you may want to put this whole thread in Unmoderated, with only a note in the main conference. Dear Siddhajan Prabhu, Dandavat Pranams! > Thanks for your replies. There have been gross offenses created at the > lotus feet of much more advanced vaisnavas than ourselves -namely Srila > Sridhara Maharaja, But you missed my original points. Please don't avoid them. My questions are: 1. How is it that these offenses apply to anyone other than those who were involved when they occurred, plus those who knowingly supported them later? Please describe the exact spiritual mechanism according to sastra where one devotee is responsible for an offense committed by someone else with whom he is not related. 2. And even if it does, how do you know that the offenses have not been forgiven? And if they have been forgiven then your raking them up will do no one any good, most of all you. > and Srila Narayana Maharaja by the GBC of ISKCON and by > extension Srila Kesava Maharaja. 3. This and most all that follows is your speculation. We don't have to accept it just because you and a million others say it is true. And even if it is true, what business is it of yours? And even if it is your business, why does it mean that because there was some offense by someone in the past, we now have to accept someone you propose as our shiksa guru? Devotees criticize ISKCON's zonal acarya system for forcing gurus down people's throats through various kinds of guilt trips ("If you don't accept him as guru then Srila Prabhupada will be unhappy, because Srila Prabhupada appointed them!") Why is your attempt to make us all feel guilty any different? ("If you don't accept Narayan Maharaja or Govinda Maharaja or this or that Maharaja as guru then Srila Prabhupada will be displeased because they were very close to Srila Prabhupada!") So many speculations one after another, and because there is a huge group of speculators who all have come to the same conclusion, therefore you are feeling strong enough to state it in this forum of vaishnavas as if it were the word of God. Please give us a break! 4. But my number one question is why do you just assume that it is obvious that there are no bonafide gurus in ISKCON, therefore everyone has to accept what you say in order to be delivered, because obviously we don't have adequate spiritual shelter? This is the most preposterous assumption! Perhaps many devotees have left ISKCON because they could not find adequate spiritual shelter. That is their free choice and we certainly wish them well. I am genuinely sorry for any difficulty they experienced in ISKCON. Let them all serve their guru or choice and get Krishna! But that does not mean that others who have not left are bereft of adequate spiritual shelter. You may say that others over there are bigger and better spiritual shelters, but is that what is meant by preaching? "My guru is better than your guru!!!"? Sounds like children on the playground, but dressed up in pages of intricate historical details, most of which are easily disputable, and filled with gallons of condescension. Please do give us a break! We are trying to have a serious discussion here. If you have your shelter somewhere else then we all wish you well. But we are having a discussion here among lower-standard but like-minded individuals and the outcome will not really be of relevance to you. I really don't think it will help you in your bhajan to participate in these discussions since you have a much higher understanding of spiritual life. Your servant, Bhaktarupa Das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2001 Report Share Posted June 25, 2001 Well Bhaktarupa das If this is ISKCON present devotee preaching and representing Srila Prabhupada, no wonder hundreds are giving up that association and coming to Srila Narayana's Maharaja's association. It is more than obvious you are in the deep modes of ignorance and I shall not converse with you any more for fear that I creat offenses to myself. Once you start using mundane slogan like "give me a break" that is all nonsense speaking and does not form part of the vaisnava tattva. This is avaisnava language. The mere fact that you are asking where is the relationship with vaisnavas, this tell me instantly you have lost your spiritual connection and intelligence and I shall go no further with you. You are a great embarassment to your spiritual name. That is not in line with Srila Rupa Goswami Prabhupada. You sound no more intelligent than a ritvik preacher. Are you one? Ii sounds so to me. Well the ritviks preacher and the blind GBC followers are both fanatics and have lost sight of the linkage of Srila Rupa Goswami. Here is something that will set you off. I am related to Srila Rupa Goswami. I am also related to Lord Krsna by the same process. You have forgotten tah relationship and family connection by following persons who have lost that connection themselves. I guess in your next email you will be using four letter curse words to me you are so ignorant and avaisnava. GBC.Restructure (AT) pamho (DOT) net [GBC.Restructure (AT) pamho (DOT) net]On Behalf Of Bhaktarupa (das) ACBSP (Bhubaneswara - IN) Monday, June 25, 2001 2:45 AM Sri Rama (das) ACBSP; Steve Taylor Hara Krsna Sriramji, you may want to put this whole thread in Unmoderated, with only a note in the main conference. Dear Siddhajan Prabhu, Dandavat Pranams! > Thanks for your replies. There have been gross offenses created at the > lotus feet of much more advanced vaisnavas than ourselves -namely Srila > Sridhara Maharaja, But you missed my original points. Please don't avoid them. My questions are: 1. How is it that these offenses apply to anyone other than those who were involved when they occurred, plus those who knowingly supported them later? Please describe the exact spiritual mechanism according to sastra where one devotee is responsible for an offense committed by someone else with whom he is not related. 2. And even if it does, how do you know that the offenses have not been forgiven? And if they have been forgiven then your raking them up will do no one any good, most of all you. > and Srila Narayana Maharaja by the GBC of ISKCON and by > extension Srila Kesava Maharaja. 3. This and most all that follows is your speculation. We don't have to accept it just because you and a million others say it is true. And even if it is true, what business is it of yours? And even if it is your business, why does it mean that because there was some offense by someone in the past, we now have to accept someone you propose as our shiksa guru? Devotees criticize ISKCON's zonal acarya system for forcing gurus down people's throats through various kinds of guilt trips ("If you don't accept him as guru then Srila Prabhupada will be unhappy, because Srila Prabhupada appointed them!") Why is your attempt to make us all feel guilty any different? ("If you don't accept Narayan Maharaja or Govinda Maharaja or this or that Maharaja as guru then Srila Prabhupada will be displeased because they were very close to Srila Prabhupada!") So many speculations one after another, and because there is a huge group of speculators who all have come to the same conclusion, therefore you are feeling strong enough to state it in this forum of vaishnavas as if it were the word of God. Please give us a break! 4. But my number one question is why do you just assume that it is obvious that there are no bonafide gurus in ISKCON, therefore everyone has to accept what you say in order to be delivered, because obviously we don't have adequate spiritual shelter? This is the most preposterous assumption! Perhaps many devotees have left ISKCON because they could not find adequate spiritual shelter. That is their free choice and we certainly wish them well. I am genuinely sorry for any difficulty they experienced in ISKCON. Let them all serve their guru or choice and get Krishna! But that does not mean that others who have not left are bereft of adequate spiritual shelter. You may say that others over there are bigger and better spiritual shelters, but is that what is meant by preaching? "My guru is better than your guru!!!"? Sounds like children on the playground, but dressed up in pages of intricate historical details, most of which are easily disputable, and filled with gallons of condescension. Please do give us a break! We are trying to have a serious discussion here. If you have your shelter somewhere else then we all wish you well. But we are having a discussion here among lower-standard but like-minded individuals and the outcome will not really be of relevance to you. I really don't think it will help you in your bhajan to participate in these discussions since you have a much higher understanding of spiritual life. Your servant, Bhaktarupa Das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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