RE: Do No Harm, really?

[Guest guest]

Dear Prabhus,

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada and his

pure followers!

 

> |Sri Rama said:

> |> The question is not, "What decision should he make?" but rather, "On

> |> what basis should he make a decision?" Remember that the root of this

> |> discussion revolves around the question of following authority.

 

> |Krsna-kirtan replied:

> |Yes. You are right. That was the main point. But why is that devotee not

> |depending on Krsna, just like Arjuna on the battlefield? Why is he not

> |praying sincerely to get proper guidance? Is Krsna not available to one

> who |sincerely depends on Him? Can we, at any time, be lost in devotional

> |service? If somebody is confused in his life, isn't it a symptom, that he

> is |not genuinely taking shelter at Krsna's lotus feet?

> |I am personally confident that Krsna takes special care of His devotee,

> and |never lets His sincere servant in a painful situation without guiding

> Him |personally out of it. Is it not so, according to your personal

> realizations?

 

> Sri Rama responded:

> One can depend on Krishna, but one cannot force Krishna to answer your

> prayers or to intervene in any specific way. He is independent and one

> must always be open-minded to Krishna's way of doing things. I must be one

> of those who could not take genuine shelter at His lotus feet, as I once

> spent eight years praying for an indication on how I should fit in to the

> Hare Krishna Movement. If Krishna sent the answer, it went right over my

> head. So I just continued on, doing what I could (or would, as the case

> may be).

> So maybe I was insincere, or perhaps Krishna just chose not to help me

> figure this out. I'll probably never know unless I ask him face to face,

> should I ever be that fortunate. But in a practical sense, in relation to

> this question, it doesn't really matter. Devotees most certainly do fall

> into this situation where they must choose to follow or not follow what

> may or may not be the "authorized direction."

> Your servant,

> Sri Rama das

 

My comment:

Do you think Srila Prabhupada was not sincere because he was not involved in

the Gaudiya Math? You "spent 8 years praying for indication on how you

should fit in to the Hare Krsna Movement", did He not do that too?

Does that mean he was not following His authority?...

 

Didn't Krsna answer you by encouraging you to "continue on, doing what you

could or would"...This is the real meaning of following authority in my

humble opinion. If the guru is no more available the real shelter is Krsna.

Even new bhaktas have this realization; when then pray sincerely, Krsna

guides them personally. So many stories I could tell about this simple fact.

 

Krsna is guiding His sincere devotee and we have to accept His plan, whether

it is by doing harm or by doing no harm. We may not understand why He is

guiding us in this way, but later on, His plan is clearly revealed to us.

 

Sometimes we also have some bad karma to get rid of, and there is nothing we

can do about it, except tolerate it and offering our obeisances to the Lord.

We can only accept the situation as Krsna'mercy upon us, even though we do

not clearly understand why this has happened or is happening to us.

 

If we pray genuinely and surrender to Him before acting, we will always be

protected in the course of our service, even if it seems to be covered with

faults. Of course we also do have to see Krsna in the corrections and advice

we receive from devotees around us. But still, Krsna is the original and

main authority in a devotee's life, isn't He?

 

Why should we feel at any time that we are alone to decide anything? Krsna

is always by our side whispering to us how to conduct our life in the best

way. And according to my humble opinion, you have personally followed His

advice in your heart, even though you seem not to be acknowledging that now.

 

I personally think this is why you are here today, pure and staunch in

devotional service, moderating this very controversial discussion on GBC

Restructure, in the best and most efficient way for the pleasure of ISKCON

devotees. You have genuinely followed Krsna's directions and this is why He

is giving you more responsibilities; isn't it like that really?

 

Sometimes Krsna wants us to experiment trouble in devotional service just to

help us become more mature, deeper and come closer to His shelter. When

someboby is surrendered to the Lord, he has nothing to fear and he should

not think it is his own mind which is guiding him. Krsna personally takes

care of His devotee when that person turns his thoughts towards Him, and

follow the rules and regulations of devotional service, it is never his own

mind. What do you think personally?

 

In my humble opinion, we should simply follow our heart and Prabhupada's

instructions, and be confident that we have Krsna's blessing in our attempt

to be Krsna-conscious no matter what we have to do, and what happens around

us. Are you not agreeing with me here?

 

Your servant, Krsna-kirtana dasi.

[Guest guest]

At 10:38 AM 9/20/00 +0200, Krsna Kirtana (dd) ACBSP (F) wrote:

 

>> Sri Rama responded:

 

>> So maybe I was insincere, or perhaps Krishna just chose not to help me

>> figure this out. I'll probably never know unless I ask him face to face,

>> should I ever be that fortunate. But in a practical sense, in relation to

>> this question, it doesn't really matter. Devotees most certainly do fall

>> into this situation where they must choose to follow or not follow what

>> may or may not be the "authorized direction."

 

>My comment:

>Do you think Srila Prabhupada was not sincere because he was not involved in

>the Gaudiya Math? You "spent 8 years praying for indication on how you

>should fit in to the Hare Krsna Movement", did He not do that too?

>Does that mean he was not following His authority?...

 

But Srila Prabhupada was involved with the Gaudiya Math for many years

(decades!). Before leaving India, he worked with several of his godbrothers

inside their missions. He tried many times to get support from Gaudiya Math

itself (Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati's mission) for his work, not because he

needed their money (although it wouldn't have hurt to have it), but because

it was, after all, his spirtual master's mission. Even after coming to

America, he repeatedly tried to draw his godbrothers out of theuir

stiuations in the dhamas to help spread Krishna consciousness all over the

world. He did this not because he wanted to control them (there's no real

evidence for such an idea) but because there was plenty of room in the

world for many powerful preachers. There still is.

 

We're all trying to make this institution work. But we need a better reason

fro doing so than sentiment. A better reason is that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta

Sarasvati and Srila Prabhupada felt that well-orgainized preaching

institutions were helpful for systematically propagating krishna

consciousness in the modern world. But ultimately, if we're not successful,

each of us has to decide how best to serve Srila Prabhupada. We have to

become Krishna conscious and help many others gain access to this

perfection. If we can reform ISKCON so it is the dynamic instrument for

effecting this, as SRila Prabhupada intended, so much the better.

 

Babhru das

[Guest guest]

Sadhvi! Sadhvi!

 

Your servant, Bhaktarupa Das

 

> Dear Prabhus,

>

> Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada and

> his pure followers!

>

> > |Sri Rama said:

> > |> The question is not, "What decision should he make?" but rather,

> > "On |> what basis should he make a decision?" Remember that the root of

> > this |> discussion revolves around the question of following authority.

>

> > |Krsna-kirtan replied:

> > |Yes. You are right. That was the main point. But why is that devotee

> > not |depending on Krsna, just like Arjuna on the battlefield? Why is he

> > not |praying sincerely to get proper guidance? Is Krsna not available to

> > one

> > who |sincerely depends on Him? Can we, at any time, be lost in

> > devotional

> > |service? If somebody is confused in his life, isn't it a symptom, that

> > he is |not genuinely taking shelter at Krsna's lotus feet?

> > |I am personally confident that Krsna takes special care of His devotee,

> > and |never lets His sincere servant in a painful situation without

> > guiding Him |personally out of it. Is it not so, according to your

> > personal realizations?

>

> > Sri Rama responded:

> > One can depend on Krishna, but one cannot force Krishna to answer your

> > prayers or to intervene in any specific way. He is independent and one

> > must always be open-minded to Krishna's way of doing things. I must be

> > one of those who could not take genuine shelter at His lotus feet, as I

> > once spent eight years praying for an indication on how I should fit in

> > to the Hare Krishna Movement. If Krishna sent the answer, it went right

> > over my head. So I just continued on, doing what I could (or would, as

> > the case may be).

> > So maybe I was insincere, or perhaps Krishna just chose not to help

> > me

> > figure this out. I'll probably never know unless I ask him face to face,

> > should I ever be that fortunate. But in a practical sense, in relation

> > to this question, it doesn't really matter. Devotees most certainly do

> > fall into this situation where they must choose to follow or not follow

> > what may or may not be the "authorized direction."

> > Your servant,

> > Sri Rama das

>

> My comment:

> Do you think Srila Prabhupada was not sincere because he was not involved

> in the Gaudiya Math? You "spent 8 years praying for indication on how you

> should fit in to the Hare Krsna Movement", did He not do that too? Does

> that mean he was not following His authority?...

>

> Didn't Krsna answer you by encouraging you to "continue on, doing what you

> could or would"...This is the real meaning of following authority in my

> humble opinion. If the guru is no more available the real shelter is

> Krsna. Even new bhaktas have this realization; when then pray sincerely,

> Krsna guides them personally. So many stories I could tell about this

> simple fact.

>

> Krsna is guiding His sincere devotee and we have to accept His plan,

> whether it is by doing harm or by doing no harm. We may not understand why

> He is guiding us in this way, but later on, His plan is clearly revealed

> to us.

>

> Sometimes we also have some bad karma to get rid of, and there is nothing

> we can do about it, except tolerate it and offering our obeisances to the

> Lord. We can only accept the situation as Krsna'mercy upon us, even though

> we do not clearly understand why this has happened or is happening to us.

>

> If we pray genuinely and surrender to Him before acting, we will always be

> protected in the course of our service, even if it seems to be covered

> with faults. Of course we also do have to see Krsna in the corrections and

> advice we receive from devotees around us. But still, Krsna is the

> original and main authority in a devotee's life, isn't He?

>

> Why should we feel at any time that we are alone to decide anything? Krsna

> is always by our side whispering to us how to conduct our life in the best

> way. And according to my humble opinion, you have personally followed His

> advice in your heart, even though you seem not to be acknowledging that

> now.

>

> I personally think this is why you are here today, pure and staunch in

> devotional service, moderating this very controversial discussion on GBC

> Restructure, in the best and most efficient way for the pleasure of ISKCON

> devotees. You have genuinely followed Krsna's directions and this is why

> He is giving you more responsibilities; isn't it like that really?

>

> Sometimes Krsna wants us to experiment trouble in devotional service just

> to help us become more mature, deeper and come closer to His shelter. When

> someboby is surrendered to the Lord, he has nothing to fear and he should

> not think it is his own mind which is guiding him. Krsna personally takes

> care of His devotee when that person turns his thoughts towards Him, and

> follow the rules and regulations of devotional service, it is never his

> own mind. What do you think personally?

>

> In my humble opinion, we should simply follow our heart and Prabhupada's

> instructions, and be confident that we have Krsna's blessing in our

> attempt to be Krsna-conscious no matter what we have to do, and what

> happens around us. Are you not agreeing with me here?

>

> Your servant, Krsna-kirtana dasi.