The Need for Manu Samhita

[Guest guest]

> >With regard to bhakti-yoga, following such moral instructions is

essential,

> >because if one's activities are sinful, then he will not be able to make

> >any

> advancement in devotional service: yesham tvanta gatam papam jananam punya

> karanam / te dvandva moha nirmukta bhajane mam drdha vratah, "Only those

who

> have acted piously in this life and in previous lives, and whose sinful

> reactions are completely eradicated are freed from the dualities of

> delusion, and they engage themselves in My service with determination."

(BG

> 7.28)>>

>

> The process of Bhakti itself burns all sins. Bhakti Yoga is the whole.

> Moral instructions are a part of Bhakti Yoga. I do not understand why we

> have to see moral instructions separate from Bhakti Yoga. Why should

there

> be a separate endeavour for following moral pricnciples. If we can try to

> practise the laws of our ISKCON Law Book Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu, then I

do

> not see any need of separately following Manu Samhita, other than reading

it

> for academic interest, and to preach to outsiders, who can atleast come up

> to a certain level.

 

A few points:

 

(1) No one ever suggested following Manu-Samhita separately and exclusive of

Srila Prabhupada's teachings.

 

(2) Srila Prabhupada himself quotes Manu-samhita and other dharma-sastras

throughout his teachings - specifically with regard to such subjects as

marriage, raja-dharma, varnashrama dharma, etc.

 

(3) Manu-samhita and other dharma-sastras go into extensive detail regarding

the theory and practice of varnasrama-dharma. Srimad-Bhagavatam may give

principles but does not give such extensive details about the practice of

varnashrama-dharma. If you disagree, then where (for example), in

Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu, are there any specific details on how to perform a

marriage? :-) In Srimad-Bhagavatam, Canto 7, Chapter 14, titled "Ideal

Family Life", the word "marriage" is to be found only once in either the

text or the purports (so much for details :-).

 

Of course, we may say that principles are enough, and details, after all,

are details, so we can do as we like as long as it is (somehow) based on

principles. But then why speculate? If detailed information is there from

an authoritative source, why should we speculate and not accept authority?

 

(4) I think it is unwise to consider Manu-Samhita as something only fit for

"academic interest", especially considering that Srila Prabhupada himself

considered it authoritative and quoted from it. This kind of language can

qualify as "veda-nindanam", or blasphemy of the Vedic literatures, which is

a nama-aparadha. And why would someone who is factually detached from

worldly endeavor have an "academic interest" in anything at all?

 

(5) If the process of bhakti "burns all sins", then there should be a

practical demonstration of that. Some people do, but many do not. In fact,

it could be argued that most do not. Does this prove that Bhakti-yoga does

not work? No, but it means we have to refine our understanding of what it

means to practice bhakti yoga with regard to *members of ISKCON*. Even if

the books are there, and even if they are sincere, we see so many ISKCON

devotees fall down.

 

There is a relevant conversation I am reproducing here that discusses this

point - if Bhakti is sufficient, why so many fall down? Therefore,

varnashrama is also necessary. (I'm sure this has done the rounds before,

but here it is again):

 

-

Mayapura, Feb 14, 1977 - VARNASRAMA MUST BE INTRODUCED

-

 

Satsvarupa: Varnasrama is not required.

Prabhupada: Not required. Caitanya Mahaprabhu denied, "I am not brahmana, I

am not ksatriya, I am not this, I am not this." He rejected. But in the

Bhagavad-gita, the catur-varnyam maya srstam. [ [bg. 4.13]: "According to

the three modes of material nature and the work associated with them, the

four divisions of human society are created by Me."] So we are Krsna.,

preaching Krsna consciousness. It must be done.

Hari-sauri: But in Caitanya Mahaprabhu's practical preaching He only induced

them to chant.

Prabhupada: That is not possible for ordinary man.

Hari-sauri: What, to simply induce people to chant?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Hari-sauri: He only introduced just the chanting.

Prabhupada: But who will chant? Who'll chant?

Satsvarupa: But if they won't chant, then neither will they train up in the

varnasrama. That's the easiest.

Prabhupada: The chanting will be there, but you cannot expect that people

will chant like Caitanya Mahaprabhu. They cannot even chant sixteen rounds.

(And) these rascals are going to be Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

Satsvarupa: No. But if they at least will chant and take some prasada.

Prabhupada: Chanting will go on. That is not stopped. But at the same time

the varnasrama-dharma must be established to make the way easy.

Hari-sauri: Well, at least my own understanding was that the chanting was

introduced in the age of Kali because varnasrama is not possible.

Prabhupada: Because it will cleanse the mind. Chanting will not stop.

Hari-sauri: So therefore the chanting was introduced to replace all of the

systems of varnasrama and like that.

Prabhupada: Yes, it can replace, but who is going to replace it? The. People

are not so advanced. If you imitate Haridasa Thakura to chant, it is not

possible.

Satsvarupa: We tell them go on with your job but chant also.

Prabhupada: Yes. Thakaha apanara kaje [From song by Bhaktivinoda Thakura:

".Go on with your prescribed duty, and chant Hare Krsna."] Bhaktivinoda

Thakura. Apanara kaja ki. Caitanya Mahaprabhu recom mended, sthane sthitah

["remaining in the varnasrama-dharma"] And if they do not remain in the

sthana, then the sahajiya's chanting will come. Just like the sahajiyas also

have got the beads and., but they have got three dozen women. This kind of

chanting will go on. Just like our (name withheld). He was not fit for

sannyasa but he was given sannyasa. And five women he was attached, and he

disclosed.

Therefore varnasrama-dharma is required. Simply show-bottle will not do. So

the varnasrama-dharma should be introduced all over the world, and.

Satsvarupa: Introduced starting with ISKCON community?

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Brahmana, ksatriyas. There must be regular education.

 

-----------------------------

 

What I and some others are advocating are that sastras like Manu-samhita are

an authoritative means to helping us establish varnasrama-dharma because

they specifically deal with the theory and practice of it.

 

Your servant, Krishna-kirti das (HDG)