There are shades of grey.

[Guest guest]

-

"Bhadra Govinda (das) JPS (Singapore - SG)"

<Bhadra.Govinda.JPS (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

"Christopher Shannon" <cshannon (AT) mdo (DOT) net>; "GBC Unmoderated"

<GBC.Unmoderated (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Saturday, October 28, 2000 3:38 AM

Punishment and Attonement - which category?

 

 

> Krishna kirti Prabhu wrote:

>

> >Since devotional service is considered itself to be attonment, why not

just

> >have the child molestors circumambulate Tulasi devi? That's sufficient

to

> >relieve one of the sin of killing a brahmana, so why not just let them do

> >devotional service and forget about whatever happened?

>

> Bhakti is voluntary and cannot be forced externally. Where as punishment

is

> enforced externally. Prayaschitta is voluntary (I think). Bhakti or

> Krishna Consciousness is Step 1. to admit one's mistakes, step 2. try not

to

> repeat one's mistakes, and step 3. chant Hare Krishna. Even a child

> molestor, or a rapist or a thief, a brahmana killer or cow killer or

killers

> of God follow these three steps then all their sins are washed off. Do

you

> doubt this??? However some one has to *voluntarily* submit to this

process.

>

> Bhakti is neither punishment nor prayaschitta as you are suggesting above.

 

This was never suggested.

 

> Now CPO or any office of ISKCON is doing devotional service. This office

is

> to catch those who are not voluntarily submitting to this process, but who

> are pretending to be doing the above processes but are duplitious. CPO

are

> there to identify these imposters and throw them out, so that they do not

> cause disturbance to the sincere devotees, and punish them acording to the

> state laws which are currently still there. (Fortunately the Kaliyuga has

> not taken complete effect, and even according to state laws, rape, theft,

> child molestation are punishable according to all most all countries

laws).

> This service of CPO, catching the imposters is devotional service!!! That

is

> bhakti!!! Similarly Guarding the deities and deities paraphernalia is

> Bhakti. We are not suggesting that we keep our temples and homes unlocked

> and chant Hare Krishna. That is not Bhagavata Marga. That is fool's

marga.

 

But since most neophyte devotees are not (totally) in control of their

senses, almost anyone can become an "imposter", even if they are sincere.

 

matra svasra duhitra va naviviktasano bhavet

balavan indriya-gramo vidvamsam api karsati

 

"One should not allow oneself to sit on the same seat even with one's own

mother, sister or daughter, for the senses are so strong that even though

one is very advanced in knowledge, he may be attracted by sex." (SB 9.19.17)

 

On the basis of the above verse, I disagree with your black and white world

view of sincere people and "imposters", with no shades of grey inbetween.

In fact, I would even doubt the CPO officers themselves would agree with

this because although the punishments they have metted out are harsh, most,

if not all of those punishements have some provision for admitting the

erring devotee back into society as a functional member. If someone really

were an imposter, like Vatsasura, then we would expect not to see such

provisions for readmitting the offender.

 

Your servant, Krishna-kirti das (HDG)