Guest guest Posted November 7, 2000 Report Share Posted November 7, 2000 > Yes until we focus on our own shortcomings how can we progress spiritualy? > There is way too much criticism in our movement today, criticism is not > the way to get the Lords favour. "The living entities conditioned by material nature are of various types. One is happy, another is very active, and another is helpless. All these types of psychological manifestations are causes of the entities’ conditioned status in nature. How they are differently conditioned is explained in this section of Bhagavad-gita. The mode of goodness is first considered. The effect of developing the mode of goodness in the material world is that one becomes wiser than those otherwise conditioned. A man in the mode of goodness is not so much affected by material miseries, and he has a sense of advancement in material knowledge. The representative type is the brahmana, who is supposed to be situated in the mode of goodness. This sense of happiness is due to understanding that, in the mode of goodness, one is more or less free from sinful reactions. Actually, in the Vedic literature it is said that the mode of goodness means greater knowledge and a greater sense of happiness. The difficulty here is that when a living entity is situated in the mode of goodness he becomes conditioned to feel that he is advanced in knowledge and is better than others. In this way he becomes conditioned." (Bg 14.6, Purport) Not considering anyone in specific, there are persons who think they can say and do anything without critique. They think others should just respect them regardless of whatever they say and do. There is also too much pride in some members of the movement, pride is not the way to get the Lords favour. Pride or critique. Which is worse? If the critique in reality is only an honest questioning of certain statements of somebody and not an attempt for personal attack then I think pride is worse then critique. The strong propaganda that one should not criticize anyone but should just accept everything in a humble mode has led to that many has left ISKCON because some proud individuals have utilized the situation and demanded overdue respect for whatever they say and do. In the purport of Bhagavad-gita 4.35 Srila Prabhupada states: "In this verse, both blind following and absurd inquiries are condemned." Some persons in leading position in ISKCON have in the past demanded blind following which has caused many to leave the movement. If it is demanded that one should follow blindly and one actually surrender to that process one will not make spiritual advancement. Blind following is condemned. If we only focus on our own shortcomings we will also not make spiritual advancement. When we sincerly try to understand the message from Krishna then we will make spiritual advancement. Arjuna was questioning Krishna's statements quite heavily. He said for instance: "O Janardana, O Kesava, why do You want to engage me in this ghastly warfare, if You think that intelligence is better than fruitive work?" (Bg 3.1) "My intelligence is bewildered by Your equivocal instructions. Therefore, please tell me decisively which will be most beneficial for me." (Bg 3.2) Arjuna even accused the Lord for giving equivocal instructions. Arjuna could get away with it because he was sincerely interested to understand what the Lord was trying to tell him. Arjuna was putting up questions about things which sounded contradictory for him. "Arjuna said: The sun-god Vivasvan is senior by birth to You. How am I to understand that in the beginning You instructed this science to him?" (Bg 4.4) Arjuna also stated that some things Krishna was telling him about was impractical for him. "Arjuna said: O Madhusudana, the system of yoga which You have summarized appears impractical and unendurable to me, for the mind is restless and unsteady." (Bg 6.33) If inquiries are not absurd I don't think that they are bad even if they are a little challenging. In fact I think ISKCON will stay healthy by being challenged a little. Y.s. Svarupa das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2000 Report Share Posted November 7, 2000 > Krishna consiousness is the process of self-realization. If everyone just > looked after their own consciousness, and didn't poke their nose into > everybody else's business, our movement would have the potency to actually > help the world's distressed people. Instead, this over-absorption in the > affairs of others (especially women) simply ridicules the self-realization > process which this movement is based on. > > This in my opinion, and I am entitled to it, whether you agree or > disagree. Can we now drop the subject? It is neither enlightening or > uplifting. (I find it boring to the extreme.) This comment is not to continue this topic of woman's role in ISKCON but to defer it to another time. This topic was spontaneously discussed in an unstructured way on COM not too long back and the result was that we found our movement was deeply divided on this issue. For a long time convincing argments on both sides were exchanged with no one changing their position. So this issue certainly does need to be properly debated thread bare in a structured and conclusive way, but now is not the time. That would be a debate that would go on for months and months. If we get a new GBC that is more approachable, this issue could be raised for discussed and delegated to the ISKCON brahmanas. It could be done in such a way that we would all willingly agreee to be cooperate with the outcome whether it be our liking or not. So let's save it for later. ys ada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2000 Report Share Posted November 8, 2000 > > This comment is not to continue this topic of woman's role in ISKCON but > to defer it to another time. This topic was spontaneously discussed in an > unstructured way on COM not too long back and the result was that we found > our movement was deeply divided on this issue. For a long time convincing > argments on both sides were exchanged with no one changing their position. > So this issue certainly does need to be properly debated thread bare in a > structured and conclusive way, but now is not the time. That would be a > debate that would go on for months and months. If we get a new GBC that is > more approachable, this issue could be raised for discussed and delegated > to the ISKCON brahmanas. It could be done in such a way that we would all > willingly agreee to be cooperate with the outcome whether it be our liking > or not. So let's save it for later. A wise suggestion. Here, we couldn't come even to an agreement wether the implementation of varnashrama dharma system is going to be all-inclusive, or not. Wether it is going to be followed by everybody or only by some. So, what to speak of starting to discuss (if not coming to some conclusive understanding) of _how_ it is going to be followed by... I mean, some. I mean, _if_ it is going to be followed, of course (enough of Colosseum for the time being). OK. So let's draw our peons back to the line that we all here seem to be able to tolerate as quite acceptable -- sannyasis got to shape up according to their sva-dharma. (I just hope I am not again poking my nose into else's business, I mean, I ain't a sannyasi exactly, just as me ain't a woman.. - mnd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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