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> But this is not my point. I am saying that the way our

> transcendental philosophy is presented brings much confusion and

> does not dispel the ignorance of this world, its prime function. We

> use the scriptures to force the world to stop sinning. All the

> countries and religious organizations that have adopted this path

> have always failed in an embarrassing way. If you want to show that

> Krisna Consciousness is worth trying, another paradigm should be

> developed. It should be based on vaisnava love and harmonized with

> democratic values.

 

Actually, our transcendental philosophy does not bring confusion. It

brings clarity and perspective. The only reason we are confused is

when we don't follow the philosophy or don't accept it. Srila

Prabhupada is the only one on the planet who came to the west and told

us the truth. That is beyond doubt. Therefore we should stick with his

teachings, and shun all other philosophies or interpretations. No one

can excel Srila Prabhupada in purity. He is the founder acarya and the

one to whom we pledge our faith. In fact, Srila Prabhupada's teachings

are the central point of Iskcon. Without his teachings there is no

meaning to Iskcon. If we can stick to this very simple principle

everything becomes very simple and no one has to be confused.

 

Ys, Jahnu das

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> > But this is not my point. I am saying that the way our

> > transcendental philosophy is presented brings much confusion

>

>Actually, our transcendental philosophy does not bring confusion.

 

??? No one said the philosophy brings confusion - the first sentence talks

about the way it's *presented* - not the philosophy itself. Why add even

more confusion to this discussion? ;-)

 

ys, Madhusudani dasi

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> > > But this is not my point. I am saying that the way our

> > > transcendental philosophy is presented brings much confusion

> >

> >Actually, our transcendental philosophy does not bring confusion.

>

> ??? No one said the philosophy brings confusion - the first

> sentence talks about the way it's *presented* - not the philosophy

> itself. Why add even more confusion to this discussion? ;-)

 

:) I still maintain, though, that our philosophy is being explained

very clearly by Srila Prabhupada and his followers. Confusion only

arises when we begin to doubt the philosophy and think our minds can

come up with something better. Or maybe someone will feel bad and

guilty for not being able to strictly follow the high standard given

by Srila Prabhupada, and therefore he'll accept a lower standard just

so he can feel good about himself.

 

Personally I'll rather aim for the highest standard, even though I may

not be able to follow it strictly at this point in my life, than

having to change the philosophy and fabricate a lower standard, just

so I can feel good about myself and not have to feel guilty.

 

I know in modern psychology guilt is considered bad and a stumbling

block to personal growth. But I think guilt feeling is very good. I

find that it propels me to always try to be a better follower and a

better person. Guilt is only bad if one doesn't have the humility or

has too much false ego, which amounts to the same, to see oneself

truthfully. The plain truth is basically that most of us are sinful

rascals who don't want to surrender to Krishna unconditionally. We are

always holding back.

 

I know I am always holding back and giving myself excuses not to

surrender fully, but at least I realize that for what it is, namely

maya. I don't have to change the philosophy or seek other gurus to

accomodate my impurities. Instead I always hope and pray to Krishna

that before this life is over I'll be able to become a pure devotee.

 

Another thing is that if one does not regularly chant the Hare Krishna

mantra one is bound to be confused and misled by his mind, because the

holy name is the only thing at this point in time that can protect us

against the faults of kali-yuga.

 

If you were to make a survey in ISKCON I can guarantee you'll find

that those who are confused by the philosophy or the way it is

presented, are the ones who don't chant their rounds.

 

Ys, Jahnu das

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At 10:18 AM 1/26/02 +1000, Jahnu (das) (Byron Bay - AU) wrote:

 

>:) I still maintain, though, that our philosophy is being explained

>very clearly by Srila Prabhupada and his followers.

 

But if all his followers were clear - we wouldn't have these debates, would

we? ;-)

 

Or is it just those who agree with you who can call themselves his

followers? :-(

 

> Confusion only

>arises when we begin to doubt the philosophy

 

I'm not sure I agree. It seems most people think their beliefs do represent

the philosophy - even if they have radically different views from each other.

 

>Personally I'll rather aim for the highest standard, even though I may

>not be able to follow it strictly at this point in my life, than

>having to change the philosophy and fabricate a lower standard, just

>so I can feel good about myself and not have to feel guilty.

 

Good for you. I mean it.

 

>If you were to make a survey in ISKCON I can guarantee you'll find

>that those who are confused by the philosophy or the way it is

>presented, are the ones who don't chant their rounds.

 

Well, at least that's a testable hypotheses - if people are honest at

least. What bothers me more is seeing devotees who chant their rounds

religiously, but who still do detestable things, like abusing their wives,

or molesting children.

Madhu

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