narayana-para veda includes Manu-samhita

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Svarup Prabhu commented:

 

> > Please forgive me if I am misunderstanding you, but taking the above

> > paragraph at face value I would have to disagree with it. Bhakti can

> > elevate even sub-humans to the spiritual world without the following of

> > any Vedic injunction. Can you please clarify your statement?

>

> One Vedic injunction is that one should not slaughter cows. If one

> slaughter cows one will not elevate to the spiritual world even if one so

> to speak externally makes a show of being a vaisnava. Similarly if one

> sexually molest children in guru-kula one will also not elevate to the

> spiritual world even if one makes a show of being a vaisnava. And I would

> say that if one doesn't stop any kind of abuse of other living entities

> then one will not elevate to the spiritual world even if one makes a show

> of being a vaisnava.

>

> Bg 4.35) Having obtained real knowledge from a self-realized soul, you

> will never fall again into such illusion, for by this knowledge you will

> see that all living beings are but part of the Supreme, or, in other

> words, that they are Mine.

>

> --------

>

> My intention was not to argue about whether bhakti can elevate anyone to

> the highest platform or not. I am also convinced that if someone have

> developed bhakti then there is no problem for such a person. I understand

> bhakti to mean love of Godhead. But how many of us have developed love of

> Godhead?

>

> My point is circulating around people like myself who have not developed

> love of Godhead yet. For such people it is important to understand how to

> behave as a human being because otherwise we will not make any progress in

> spiritual life.

 

This is exactly on my point. Initiation is a rebirth into a new species of

life. By following the orders of the spiritual master, even if one has not

developed love of Godhead he is performing bhakti by the mercy of his guru.

There are a new set of rules to follow. If you follow the rules designed for

human beings but neglect the rules designed for initiated devotees then

although you will be free from ordinary sin you will be guilty of guru

aparadha, which is much worse. Conversely, if you follow strictly the rules

designed for initiated devotees then even if you don't follow all the rules

designed for human beings you are free from sin by the mercy of bhakti. So

it is only important to understand how to behave as a devotee, and it is not

very important to understand the rules applicable for ordinary human beings.

 

But please don't think that the rules for devotees are too difficult or too

high, thus better to just follow the ordinary human rules for the time

being. Firstly, in many ways the rules are quite similar and are not

impossible to follow (are the four regs impossible to follow?), and

secondly, initiated devotees have already promised to follow them so there

is no question of not doing it.

 

Of course, on the path of progress in bhakti sometimes it appears that there

are insurmountable obstacles, and all around us we see practicing devotees

failing. Thus the mode of goodness (which is the goal of many of the

karmakandiya smritis) may appear attractive as a next-best alternative. But

if we understand our great fortune to have taken birth in this special

Kali-Yuga just after the appearance of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and try to

understand His blessings in the form of the holy name, then we will not

hesitate to accept the path of bhakti fully and with confidence.

 

> "A devotee who faithfully engages in the worship of the Deity in the

> temple but does not behave properly toward other devotees or people in

> general is called a prakrta-bhakta, a materialistic devotee, and is

> considered to be in the lowest position."

> (SB 11.2.47)

>

> > Of course, as initiated devotees we should behave according to the norms

> > of behavior given by guru, sadhu and sastra. But even if someone is not

> > able to follow the norms of human behavior but is chanting sincerely

> > then *everything* will certainly come by the mercy of the holy name.

>

> If someone is not able to follow all norms but sincerly tries his best to

> follow and have very much interest in learning about how to behave towards

> other living entities then he will probably succed in his endeavours

> because he is in fact sincere. But if he is not interested then where is

> the sincerety?

>

> My point is that maybe many of us (including myself) are not such advanced

> devotees and therefore general Vedic knowledge maybe is also of importance

> for us.

 

Knowledge is fine. And if you want to follow the Vedic injunctions of your

choice, no one is stopping you. But please don't insist that ISKCON should

make policies for the behavior of initiated devotees which are not based

upon the bhakti sastras or that it should preach the glories of karmakandiya

smritis to the devotees.

 

> The fourth offense against the holy name is to vilify scriptures or Vedic

> knowledge.

 

And the tenth offense is to not have complete faith in the chanting of the

holy name. The holy name once chanted surpasses thousands of Vedic

sacrifices performed perfectly.

 

> Vilify according to websters means: to lower in estimation or importance.

 

The smarta brahmanas of Santipur also considered Haridas Thakur to be a

vilifier of the Vedas because they said he was giving excessive

glorification to the potency of the holy name, and they cursed him that if

his statements were not correct that his nose would fall off. Glorifying

bhakti's superiority over other Vedic processes is not vilification.

 

Your servant, Bhaktarupa Das