RE: Discussion and Philosophy

[Guest guest]

> Besides, I belive that in those times, what Prabhupada meant

> with "leaving ISKCON" was essentially falling back to the old

> materialistic habits, to maya. There was no much alterative

> as there is today when many devotees have been actually

> rather more inspired to pursue their Krsna consciousness

> development by so-called "leaving".

 

"So we have to do it. It will be a world center for teaching spiritual

life. Students from all over the world will come and we shall

revolutionize the atheistic and communistic tendency of rascal

philosophers. So we must be responsible for this great task. Not for a

single moment shall we be without ISKCON thought. That is my request

to you all." (letter from Srila Prabhupada)

[Guest guest]

At 05:45 AM 3/4/2002 +1000, you wrote:

> > Besides, I belive that in those times, what Prabhupada meant

> > with "leaving ISKCON" was essentially falling back to the old

> > materialistic habits, to maya. There was no much alterative

> > as there is today when many devotees have been actually

> > rather more inspired to pursue their Krsna consciousness

> > development by so-called "leaving".

>

>"So we have to do it. It will be a world center for teaching spiritual

>life. Students from all over the world will come and we shall

>revolutionize the atheistic and communistic tendency of rascal

>philosophers. So we must be responsible for this great task. Not for a

>single moment shall we be without ISKCON thought. That is my request

>to you all." (letter from Srila Prabhupada)

 

If you read the entire letter to Tamal Krishna, you will see the context

for this instruction. Quotations taken out of context are often not helpful.

[Guest guest]

> Well, I've stayed because he personally asked me to. I have worked

> cooperatively with the GBC for about 33 years, but I will not follow

> their deviations from Lord Chaitanya's teachings. If you don't like

> that, perhaps you should go away.

 

May I ask what deviations you are refering to?

 

Ys, Jahnu das

[Guest guest]

At 06:52 AM 3/4/2002 +1000, you wrote:

> > Well, I've stayed because he personally asked me to. I have worked

> > cooperatively with the GBC for about 33 years, but I will not follow

> > their deviations from Lord Chaitanya's teachings. If you don't like

> > that, perhaps you should go away.

>

>May I ask what deviations you are refering to?

 

Yes, you may.

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Jahnu (das) (San Rafael, CA - USA) wrote:

> I think the name of the conference is self explanatory. What need is

> there for a big discussion on this?

 

It's pretty broad, and possibly vague. That's maybe a flaw, but

it's also a quality; let's not get stereotyped or narrowminded. Better to

think of ways and means Krsna consciousness can be "applied," and shared

with other in the most inspiring ways. We know that preaching cannot be

stereotyped, and Srila Prabhupada personally even told a close friend of

mine that preaching is above the GBC! So he was willing to think and act

that broadly; it seems we need this detached mindset in ISKCON now, which

is not to suggest any relaxation of our stringent spiritual standards. It

helps to keep the following in mind:

 

Books are the basis.

Preaching is the essence.

Utility is the principle.

Purity is the force.

 

> "You simply have to keep yourself always in the fire of Krishna

> consciousness. Read my books daily, chant 16 rounds, and worship Lord

> Caitanya in your home. If you do this maya will never touch you."

> (letter from Srila prabhupada)

 

 

 

> > (And what about those pesky regulative principles?)

> What about them?

 

Speaking of "applied Krsna consciousness," it seems as if Srila

Prabhupada adopted these principles right out of Srimad Bhagavatam,

1.17.38, a verse on which he gives pretty pragmatic instructions in his

purport.

 

 

 

 

> everyone is presenting the philosophy. Srila Prabhupada was absolutely

> adamant we understand the philosophy from him and not from anyone

> else.

He really did seem to have minded the Gaudiya Matha for some

reason, or reasons; I don't think the interests of Gaudiya Matha have

fundamentally changed so much since then either, although the forms have.

 

MDd

[Guest guest]

At 03:04 PM 3/3/2002 -0800, M. Tandy wrote:

>On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Jahnu (das) (San Rafael, CA - USA) wrote:

> > I think the name of the conference is self explanatory. What need is

> > there for a big discussion on this?

>

> It's pretty broad, and possibly vague. That's maybe a flaw, but

>it's also a quality; let's not get stereotyped or narrowminded. Better to

>think of ways and means Krsna consciousness can be "applied," and shared

>with other in the most inspiring ways. We know that preaching cannot be

>stereotyped, and Srila Prabhupada personally even told a close friend of

>mine that preaching is above the GBC! So he was willing to think and act

>that broadly; it seems we need this detached mindset in ISKCON now, which

>is not to suggest any relaxation of our stringent spiritual standards. It

>helps to keep the following in mind:

>

> Books are the basis.

> Preaching is the essence.

> Utility is the principle.

> Purity is the force.

 

Let's keep in mind, though, that this aphorism is not Srila Prabhupada's

but a synthesis of one devoteee's understanding.

 

> > > (And what about those pesky regulative principles?)

> > What about them?

>

> Speaking of "applied Krsna consciousness," it seems as if Srila

>Prabhupada adopted these principles right out of Srimad Bhagavatam,

>1.17.38, a verse on which he gives pretty pragmatic instructions in his

>purport.

 

This purport was one of the things that convinced me that the Krishna

consciousness movement is the revolution we were looking for and that I

should give my life to it. (Imagine: a culture based on cleanliness, mercy,

austerity, and truthfulness!) Another is Prabhupada's assertion in the

purport to the Bhagavatam's second verse, where he says that the

transcendental devotees of the Lord come to establish a competitionless

society with God at the center. Yet another was the description of the

nature of Kali yuga (which I found perfect) and his assertion that the only

way to overcome the influence of Kali is by constant chanting of the holy

names of Krishna.

 

Thanks once again for reminding us of what's essential.

 

Babhru das

[Guest guest]

> Not for a

> single moment shall we be without ISKCON thought. That is my request

> to you all." (letter from Srila Prabhupada)

 

As everybody seems to be following, one or other way.

Especially those who go to NM, in apparent conviction

that he is the next acarya of ISKCON, being the most

senior Vaisnava and the siksa disciple of Srila Prabhupada,

in the sampradaya that is rather siksa than diksa

sampradaya.

 

But this all is beyond the point anyway. For if somebody

is apparently more inspired to practice KC by following

NM than by following the GBC, what is there to talk about

really? I belive it is still up to Krsna do mediate in

between the prospective Guru and the prospective disciple,

and not some institutionalized mind dispositions of ours.

 

And just to make it clear, in any case -- I am in no way

advocating the rush to NM. Just that I may be both understanding

and not condemning those who prefer to accept/follow rather

him instead of the GBC. They aren't any bad people or

"elements", but just as anybody else in the "rest" of

ISKCON -- looking for the inspiration and advancement in

their spiritual lifes.

 

 

 

- mnd

[Guest guest]

> >May I ask what deviations you are refering to?

>

> Yes, you may.

 

So what are they?

[Guest guest]

At 10:24 AM 3/4/2002 +1000, Jahnu (das) (San Rafael, CA - USA) wrote:

> > >May I ask what deviations you are refering to?

> >

> > Yes, you may.

>

>So what are they?

 

Sorry for the wise-guy routine. It's more a pattern over many years than

any specific problems. They include, however, the parade of apasiddhantic

guru policies, beginning with their claim that Srila Prabhupada appointed

11 successor gurus and all the subsequent "adjustments." ("No, really--this

time we do have it figured out! Honest!") Their pattern of ignoring and

covering up abuse of women, children, and cows is another. I think the

trend toward increased bureaucratization runs counter to Srila Prabhupada's

instructions. And I am convinced that many of ISCKON's problems stem

directly from it's sytematic vilification of vaishnavas, including, but

certainly not limited to Sridhar Maharaj, Gour Govinda Maharaj, and Narayan

Maharaj. These are a couple of my concerns.

 

This may lead one to think I believe ISKCON is nothing but problems, which

isn't at all true. Some complained on this forum, I believe that ISKCON has

no heart. I heard a devotee say the same thing here in Hilo today. I think

that's way off base. Lord Chaitanya and Nityananda are the heart of ISKCON,

and many wonderful devotees continue to serve Them from within this

institution. I see devotees making advancement and preaching like mad in

ISKCON. So there's more going on than those (negative) things, of course.

However, I believe they have compromised ISCKON's effectiveness, and we

ignore them at our peril.

 

Babhru das

[Guest guest]

On 4 Mar 2002, Mahanidhi das wrote:

 

> As everybody seems to be following, one or other way.

> Especially those who go to NM, in apparent conviction

> that he is the next acarya of ISKCON, being the most

> senior Vaisnava and the siksa disciple of Srila Prabhupada,

> in the sampradaya that is rather siksa than diksa

> sampradaya.

 

The sampradaya is diksa sampradaya.

 

If you don't agree, then you may call it diksa-siksa sampradaya, to show that

siksa is important.

 

It is definitely not exclusively siksa sampradaya, as every bonafide devotee,

in the sampradaya, has accepted diksa. If it was simply siksa sampradaya,

then there was/is no need of diksa.

 

Also the meaning of the word diksa includes siksa.

 

Upa*deksyanti* te jnanam, jnaninas tattva darsinah.---Lord Sri Krishna in

Bhagavadgita.

 

Your humble servant,

Bhadra Govinda Dasa.

[Guest guest]

At 12:12 AM 3/4/2002 -0500, WWW: Balaji Prasad (Singapore) wrote:

>On 4 Mar 2002, Mahanidhi das wrote:

>

> > As everybody seems to be following, one or other way.

> > Especially those who go to NM, in apparent conviction

> > that he is the next acarya of ISKCON, being the most

> > senior Vaisnava and the siksa disciple of Srila Prabhupada,

> > in the sampradaya that is rather siksa than diksa

> > sampradaya.

>

>The sampradaya is diksa sampradaya.

>

>If you don't agree, then you may call it diksa-siksa sampradaya, to show that

>siksa is important.

>

>It is definitely not exclusively siksa sampradaya, as every bonafide devotee,

>in the sampradaya, has accepted diksa. If it was simply siksa sampradaya,

>then there was/is no need of diksa.

>

>Also the meaning of the word diksa includes siksa.

 

Actually, as most devotees know, the guru-pramapara given to us by Srila

Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati includes many links by siksa. Of course all were

initiated, but many are there simply because of their contribution to the

evolution of theistic thought. There are a couple of good presentations on

this subject. Narayan Maharaj has explained this, as well as Srila Sridhar

Maharaj. More recently, both B. V. Tripurari Maharaj and B. G. Narasingha

Maharaja have explained the nature of our sampradaya. Devotees interested

would benefit from reading any or all of these explanations.

 

Your aspiring servant,

Babhru das

[Guest guest]

>

> Actually, as most devotees know, the guru-pramapara given to us by Srila

> Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati includes many links by siksa.

 

Like Bhaktivinode Thakura who was not the initiating spiritual

master of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, and who in turn was

not the initiated disciple of Jagannath Babaji..

 

What shows that the formal initiation ("diksa") is not the

requirement for being in the line of the Sampradaya. We

do not speak here about diksa in terms of imparting the

knowledge into the hearth of a disciple.

 

Whether call it "diksa" or "siksa" or "diksa-siksa" is even

not relevant in the light of what the point was all about --

not only the formally initiated disciples of Srila Prabhupada

have gotten the exlusive right to consider themselves as the

only further link from Srila Prabhupada, on the base of

initiation only.

 

 

 

- mnd

[Guest guest]

> Sorry for the wise-guy routine. It's more a pattern over many years

> than any specific problems. They include, however, the parade of

> apasiddhantic guru policies, beginning with their claim that Srila

> Prabhupada appointed 11 successor gurus and all the subsequent

> "adjustments." ("No, really--this time we do have it figured out!

> Honest!") Their pattern of ignoring and covering up abuse of women,

> children, and cows is another.

 

I don't think it would be fair to say that the abuse of women and

children that went on in ISKCON were established policies, but rather

that they took place due to the confusing and immature elements that

ruled the times in a fledging spiritual movement trying to take root

in a hostile kali-yuga environment.

 

As for the guru-issue, there has never been a movement like ISKCON in

which guru-tattva has been dissected, analyzed and scrutinized to the

degree it has. The 11 gurus who initially got carried away have either

reformed and continue to serve strongly, or they have fallen down and

gone away. The GBC has shown that they develop, reform and become more

mature devotees. The zonal acharya system, as it was called, was

corrected and reformed by forces within ISKCON - forces loyal and

dedicated to Srila Prabhupada. It was correctly established that

Prabhupada wanted all of his disciples to become gurus and accept

disciples. If we believe that Srila Prabhupada is the authorized

acharya who has come to take Gaura-Nitai's mission to all the fallen

souls in the world, I think we have to accept that in watching and

judging the devotees of ISKCON we have to consider that Krishna and

Srila Prabhupada are directly and continually in charge of what's

going on.

 

The fact that anyone in the west is discussing guru-issues, or any

Krishna conscious issue, is due to the impact of Srila Prabhupada and

ISKCON.

 

> I think the trend toward increased

> bureaucratization runs counter to Srila Prabhupada's instructions.

> And I am convinced that many of ISCKON's problems stem directly from

> it's sytematic vilification of vaishnavas, including, but certainly

> not limited to Sridhar Maharaj, Gour Govinda Maharaj, and Narayan

> Maharaj. These are a couple of my concerns.

 

ISKCON has not systematically vilified vaishnavas, and they have

certainly not vilified the three vaishnavas you mention. Quite the

contrary. What goes on on a personal level between godbrothers - all

the grudges, the bickering and the envy - has in my opinion no

influence on ISKCON's continuation in history. Of course there will be

infighting, politics and power games when the founder-acharya goes

away.

 

In fact ISKCON is the only one of the 'new' religions that has been

able to weather the storm that came after the demise of their founding

fathers. I would like to suggest that when we observe ISKCON and its

devotees we adopt a broader and more historical perspective. We cannot

see what is going on in ISKCON if our vision is clouded by personal

resentments and old grudges.

 

Those devotees who individually vilified and offended other Vaishnavas

have all fallen down and have either accepted reform from Krishna or

they have gone away. We can actually observe how Krishna and Srila

Prabhupada are continually reforming and guiding the devotees of

ISKCON.

 

> This may lead one to think I believe ISKCON i nothing but problems,

> which isn't at all true. Some complained on this forum, I believe

> that ISKCON has no heart. I heard a devotee say the same thing here

> in Hilo today. I think that's way off base. Lord Chaitanya and

> Nityananda are the heart of ISKCON, and many wonderful devotees

> continue to serve Them from within this institution.

 

I would like to suggest that Srila Prabhupada is the heart of ISKCON.

 

> I see devotees

> making advancement and preaching like mad in ISKCON. So there's more

> going on than those (negative) things, of course. However, I believe

> they have compromised ISCKON's effectiveness, and we ignore them at

> our peril.

 

In the grand scheme of things I don't think ISKCON has compromised

anything. Just like in our personal lives we can see that Krishna is

constantly giving guidance, encouragement and punishment, the same

must also be true for the body of ISKCON. But since ISKCON is a

universal body for the spreading of the holy name its development

cannot be seen in the same time-frame as a human life. ISKCON is

designated to last 10,000 years. I have to admit, and no offense

intended to all the honoured vaishnavas present, but I find it so

incredibly narrow minded to think that one can understand what is

really happening in ISKCON, by discussing politics or by referring to

past misgivings, mistakes, abuse etc.

 

Your servant

Jahnu das

[Guest guest]

Sampradaya means simply sampradaya. If some one coins a word 'siksa

sampradaya', I would like to have more understanding on it. Some one may

misuse this term, and take away disciples of diksa gurus in good standing,

telling

"Ours is a siksa sampradaya. It is not Diksa sampradaya. So come and take

siksa from me. Forget your diksa guru" This way there is chance of

breaking the etiquette.

 

With a similar logic of the term 'siksa sampradaya', I can coin the word

'diksa sampradaya' and call any sampradaya as, diksa sampradaya, as I wrote

in my very first text, as per the meaning of the word 'diksa' itself

includes 'siksa' also. Our founder acarya has not coined any term 'diksa

sampradaya' as far as my knowledge goes. So I will not coin such a term,

which may again be misused, by some, who may say diksa is all in all, your

diksa guru is all in all and you don't have to respect other siksa gurus,

current or previous.

 

> > Actually, as most devotees know, the guru-pramapara given to us by Srila

> > Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati includes many links by siksa.

 

Every one of them in our guru parampara given to us by Srila Bhakti

Siddhanta Sarasvati has a diksa guru. There may be instances, where one's

siksa guru is more powerful than one's diksa guru, but that does not make it

a 'siksa sampradaya'.

 

And there are many branches of Caitanya tree, and the parampara can flow

through them all. I am simply grateful and loyal to ISKCON because I got

siksa and diksa from ISKCON. Some one else may be grateful and loyal to

some other institute, which might have delivered him/her.

 

Hare Krishna,

 

Your humble servant,

Bhadra Govinda Dasa.

[Guest guest]

> Like Bhaktivinode Thakura who was not the initiating spiritual

> master of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, and who in turn was

> not the initiated disciple of Jagannath Babaji..

>

> What shows that the formal initiation ("diksa") is not the

> requirement for being in the line of the Sampradaya.

 

That is not correct. Diksha is needed for the individual disciple to

be connected to the disciplic succession. Note that each of the

acharyas you mention were diksha disciples of a guru in the sampradaya

of Guadiyas. Our sampradaya may not show a continuous diksha line, but

all its gurus have been diksha disciples.

 

> We

> do not speak here about diksa in terms of imparting the

> knowledge into the hearth of a disciple.

 

Yes, the diksha is in terms of being conected to the sampradya, the

siksha one can find from many gurus in the same sampradaya.

 

> Whether call it "diksa" or "siksa" or "diksa-siksa" is even

> not relevant in the light of what the point was all about --

> not only the formally initiated disciples of Srila Prabhupada

> have gotten the exlusive right to consider themselves as the

> only further link from Srila Prabhupada, on the base of

> initiation only.

 

To be accepted into a sampradaya you have to take diksa by one of it's

representatives. Since Srila Prabhupada cannot anymore give diksha,

future disciples must take diksha from his representatives. Initially

you can link with the sampradaya through siksha but for the disciplic

succession to continue there must be diksha as well as siksha.

 

ISKCON is responsible for breeding new generations of devotees who

will continue to give diksha (and siksha), according to Srila

Prabhupada's teachings, long into the future.

 

Ys, Jahnu das

[Guest guest]

At 09:44 AM 3/4/2002 +0100, you wrote:

>I find it not so best thing to post-cross another conference

>to the bits and parcels of the threads that goes elsewhere.

>One may get only confused what's going on. And besides, the

>different conferences may require different ways of approaching

>to the different subject matters that may be incompatible. For

>example, Babhru prabhu's reply to you included the suggestion to

>read the explanations from the various Vaisnavas like B.V.

>Tripurari Maharaja, Narayana Maharaja, Srila Sridar Maharaja...

>On the "Granddisciples", this would be an anathema... "GD" is

>indeed being promoted as an "ashram" for protecting the members

>from such things, among others.

 

Good point.

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Braja wrote:

> > And there are many branches of Caitanya tree, and the parampara can flow

> > through them all. I am simply grateful and loyal to ISKCON because I got

> > siksa and diksa from ISKCON. Some one else may be grateful and loyal to

> > some other institute, which might have delivered him/her.

> Actually this is a nice reference you have posted. I would encourage anyone

> to read this section of the Caitanya Caritamrita, Adi-lila 9 - The Desire

> Tree of Devotional Service. As Srila Prabhupada writes in his purport to

> verse 18, "Our International Society for Krishna Consciousness is one of the

> branches of the Caitanya tree."

 

It will grow to be massive if we continually water the root.

 

This reminds me of another nice passage, which I posted before,

from Priyadasa's Bhakti-rasa-bodhini; Priyadasa was an 18th century

Gaudiya Vaisnava in Vrndavana (the folowing passage is translated by G. A.

Grierson, ca. 1909):

 

"The tree of Faith was but a sapling, that might be stunted by a

single kid. It was given the fence of discrimination, and sprinkled with

the water of consort with the Holy. It began to wax great, and branches

and twigs did it put forth on every side. It climbed to the sky, and its

glory spread manifold over the earth, for the basin from which its roots

drew moisture was the bosom of the Holy. Glorious and widespread was its

shade. All things that live found coolth, and drew fresh life beneath

it. Mark well its growth. Once it was a feeble thing for whose sake we

feared a goat, and now shackled to that wondrous tree, contentedly sway

mighty elephants."

 

MDd

[Guest guest]

> Sampradaya means simply sampradaya. If some one coins a word 'siksa

> sampradaya', I would like to have more understanding on it.

 

I really referred to the Sampradaya *line* of the guru-parampara

that obviously does not require that the successor is the

initiated disciple of the preceptor. But that he *follows*

in the footsteps of the previous acarya and his instructions.

Thus being rather the line of siksa.

 

 

> Every one of them in our guru parampara given to us by Srila Bhakti

> Siddhanta Sarasvati has a diksa guru.

 

Yes. And so had Bali Maharaja. But what made Bali Maharaja

to be one of the greatest examples in the Sampradaya to be

looked upon by all, was not his acceptance of a diksa guru,

Sukracarya. But the following the siksa of Lord Vamanadeva.

 

I did not claim that diksa guru is not there or not needed.

Just that it is the acceptance and following the siksa that

really is more looked upon rather then the formal initiation.

When you look at that guru-parampara list what do you know?

What you for certain may know is who is following whose siksa

there. But what you do not know for certain is who is whose

formally initiated disciple. Maybe it's some of the Sampradaya

Vaisnavas. Maybe even not. Maybe you will never get knowing.

It really seems not to matter as much as who is following

whom, or?

 

 

 

- mnd

[Guest guest]

At 07:21 PM 3/4/2002 +0100, Mahanidhi (das) (S) wrote:

> > Sampradaya means simply sampradaya. If some one coins a word 'siksa

> > sampradaya', I would like to have more understanding on it.

>

>I really referred to the Sampradaya *line* of the guru-parampara

>that obviously does not require that the successor is the

>initiated disciple of the preceptor. But that he *follows*

>in the footsteps of the previous acarya and his instructions.

>Thus being rather the line of siksa.

>

>

> > Every one of them in our guru parampara given to us by Srila Bhakti

> > Siddhanta Sarasvati has a diksa guru.

>

>Yes. And so had Bali Maharaja. But what made Bali Maharaja

>to be one of the greatest examples in the Sampradaya to be

>looked upon by all, was not his acceptance of a diksa guru,

>Sukracarya. But the following the siksa of Lord Vamanadeva.

 

Even more than that--I heard a lecture in which Srila Prabhupada said that

Bali rejected his bogus guru, and therefore he is Mahajana.

 

Babhru das

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Babhru (das) ACBSP (San Diego - USA) wrote:

> Even more than that--I heard a lecture in which Srila Prabhupada said that

> Bali rejected his bogus guru, and therefore he is Mahajana.

>

However, unlike anyone I've ever seen or heard of in ISKCON, Bali

ordered his disciple not to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

MDd

[Guest guest]

At 03:23 PM 3/4/02 -0800, you wrote:

>On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Babhru (das) ACBSP (San Diego - USA) wrote:

> > Even more than that--I heard a lecture in which Srila Prabhupada said that

> > Bali rejected his bogus guru, and therefore he is Mahajana.

> >

> However, unlike anyone I've ever seen or heard of in ISKCON, Bali

>ordered his disciple not to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

Thanks. I was going to qualify that. As I began the email, I found out my

daughter Krishnamayi was run over by a car this morning. I'm trying to find

out how she is. (This is the second time since July. Yikes!)

 

Please pardon me if I don't participate much the next couple of days (as if

anyone would miss me).

:-) Between this and being behind on grading papers (again!), this has

moved down another notch in priority.

 

Babhru

[Guest guest]

On 4 Mar 2002, Jahnu das wrote:

 

> In the grand scheme of things I don't think ISKCON has compromised

> anything. Just like in our personal lives we can see that Krishna is

> constantly giving guidance, encouragement and punishment, the same

> must also be true for the body of ISKCON. But since ISKCON is a

> universal body for the spreading of the holy name its development

> cannot be seen in the same time-frame as a human life. ISKCON is

> designated to last 10,000 years. I have to admit, and no offense

> intended to all the honoured vaishnavas present, but I find it so

> incredibly narrow minded to think that one can understand what is

> really happening in ISKCON, by discussing politics or by referring to

> past misgivings, mistakes, abuse etc.

>

> Your servant

> Jahnu das

 

A wonderful text, Prabhuji. We are most fortunate to have devotees like you

around.

 

Your humble servant,

Bhadra Govinda Dasa.

[Guest guest]

At 02:06 PM 3/4/02 -1000, you wrote:

>Thanks. I was going to qualify that. As I began the email, I found out my

>daughter Krishnamayi was run over by a car this morning. I'm trying to find

>out how she is. (This is the second time since July. Yikes!)

 

I'm so sorry to hear that. Please let us know how she is when you find out.

Madhu

[Guest guest]

> However, unlike anyone I've ever seen or heard of in ISKCON,

> Bali ordered his disciple not to worship the Supreme Personality of

> Godhead.

 

He was after all a demon

[Guest guest]

At 04:31 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, you wrote:

>At 02:06 PM 3/4/02 -1000, you wrote:

> >Thanks. I was going to qualify that. As I began the email, I found out my

> >daughter Krishnamayi was run over by a car this morning. I'm trying to find

> >out how she is. (This is the second time since July. Yikes!)

>

>I'm so sorry to hear that. Please let us know how she is when you find out.

 

Thanks. Last I heard she was in the X-ray lab. I'll let you know what's up.

 

Babhru