if it ain't broke, don't fix (delete) it!

[Guest guest]

> This is hardly a defence, but I would note that if this conference goes,

> then there does not seem to be any one other conference on PAMHO for

> rather discussion of a generalised nature. Some may say go to

> Grand-disciples - but that only applies if you are one, or if you want to

> talk about something related to Prabhupada's mission and ISKCON. Okay,

> then...go to Krsna-katha - no, everything has to be quote there. Where

> else do we have?

 

Dear Rama Kesava,

I like your vision about this conference. I am also having in mind something

like that, a forum for philosophical discussions and practical matters

(related to the practice of the philosophy). Something like an ista-gosthi

for all who would like to participate.

 

I would very much like to take advantage of the wisdom of devotees like

Mukunda Datta, Babhru, Madhumati in an informal forum like this one. One

question I am very interested in is guru-tattva and the way it is

practicallty applied nowadays in ISKCON (as per the latest GBC directives).

 

Mukunda Datta Prabhu wrote earlier in this conference:

 

> The GBC itself may have initiated a lot of this "guru

> is only a relative authority" nonsense when it concocted its system of

> bogus zonal acaryas, and consequently had to further concoct some means to

> undo the karmic mess this created--in what was largely tantamount to

> outlawing the highly beneficial example of guru worship.

 

This quote is something I feel strongly about. While it is true that the

Zonal Acarya system alienated 90 percent of the Prabhupada disciples from

ISKCON and led to the falldown of more than half of the zonal gurus, still

the principle that the guru should be worshiped is a valid and very

important one and to minimize the gurus will also bring all kinds of

unwanted results. It seems to me that, to a certain extent, the minimization

of Srila Prabhupada which was seen on TD, was one such consequence of

minimizing the gurus. If you send the message to the general public that our

gurus do not deserve to be worshiped, this may lead to the minimizing and

rejecting of the guru principle in general, and the same rejecting attitude

may be directed towards Srila Prabhupada.

 

I have been on COM/Pamho for 12 years, and I have never seen a single

instance of disrespect towards Srila Prabhupada before the GBC made the move

to "deify" him as our savior and exclusive recipient of worship.

 

Instead of saying that the gurus should not be worshiped (which is against

the principles of KC) and that all worship should go only to Srila

Prabhupada, is it not more correct to make sure that the gurus are highly

qualified and then let the disciples worship them as per the direction of

sastra (which doesn't exclude worshiping Srila Prabhupada with the utmost

respect and reverance).

 

B.G. Narasingha Maharaja said something very interesting and true. He said

that Srila Prabhupada's purity and immense qualification is not an excuse

for the lack of purity and qualification of the spiritual masters who are

disciples of SP. If a guru says that he is not qualified to deliver the

disciple back to Godhead but SP is and for this reason the disciple should

worship exclusively Srila Prabhupada, well how can the disciple be sure that

the guru can really connect him with Srila Prabhupada? Prabhupada is on the

same transcendental plane as Krsna and only a qualified guru can have access

to the mercy of Prabhupada and bless with it his disciples.

 

Another quote by Mukunda Datta Prabhu:

 

> "The key thing is that our

> ideology is alive; it has no real value if we remove its manifestation as

> a living, conscious, sentient, actor; this is why the bonafide guru is so

> essential."

 

This is really it, in a nutshell. The process of KC is personal, if you

remove or minimize the living connection to Srila Prabhupada and the

parampara, you take away the life of the process. It is no wonder that many

devotees will go to Gaudiya Math gurus, despite all the legislation against

this practice and the assurance that Srila Prabhupada can bless you with the

highest love of Godhead.

 

Mukhya dd

[Guest guest]

At 10:09 AM 3/12/2002 +0100, Mukhya (dd) (Ruiselede - BE) wrote:

>Mukunda Datta Prabhu wrote earlier in this conference:

>

> > The GBC itself may have initiated a lot of this "guru

> > is only a relative authority" nonsense when it concocted its system of

> > bogus zonal acaryas, and consequently had to further concoct some means to

> > undo the karmic mess this created--in what was largely tantamount to

> > outlawing the highly beneficial example of guru worship.

>

>This quote is something I feel strongly about. While it is true that the

>Zonal Acarya system alienated 90 percent of the Prabhupada disciples from

>ISKCON and led to the falldown of more than half of the zonal gurus, still

>the principle that the guru should be worshiped is a valid and very

>important one and to minimize the gurus will also bring all kinds of

>unwanted results. It seems to me that, to a certain extent, the minimization

>of Srila Prabhupada which was seen on TD, was one such consequence of

>minimizing the gurus. If you send the message to the general public that our

>gurus do not deserve to be worshiped, this may lead to the minimizing and

>rejecting of the guru principle in general, and the same rejecting attitude

>may be directed towards Srila Prabhupada.

 

It looks as though there maybe life in this conference after all!

 

I have some thoughts on the topic of this post, but I'll have to wait until

I get caught up on my work to participate.

 

Hopefully,

Babhru das