Standard 15 Use of Krsna's Properties - biogas digester

April 13, 1999

"COM: Tribhangananda (das) ACBSP (GB)" wrote:

> [Text 2228617 from COM]

>

> Dear Carol,

>

> Thanks for the interesting text.

>

> > To break the parasite infestation whenever possible collect and place all

> > dung and urine from all animal and human sources in a bio-gas generator.

The

> > digester turns the dung into sterile compost all worms et killed, and as a

by

> > product produces a gas called methane which is half as hot as propane but

you

> > can still use it to cook or run a generator to produce electricity. It is

> > free and cleans up the area the finished product is essentially sterile and

> > can be spread on crops as an excellent fertilizer.

> > I can provide plans for any body who wants to try it.

>

> Yes, please send them. I'm curious as to how you manage to collect,

pressurise,

> bottle (or whatever) and regulate the gas at a flow useable for cooking or

> powering a gas generator. If it can be nicely utilised (safely from the point

> of view of gas storage and pathogens), especially without huge set-up costs,

> that would be a big plus. Is this for open-air cooking, or how is the

burnt-off

> gas in terms of toxicity, etc?

>

> your servant, Tribhangananda das

I know that the ISKCON Mauritius farm used to have a biogas digester in the

1980s.

Perhaps Samba prabhu can tell us about it. Are they still using it? If not,

why

not?

The U.N. has published a nice book showing the development of biogas digesters

in

about 50 different countries. The German development technology agency, GATE,

also

has a good book -- maybe they even have a website. China also used to have

millions of biogas digesters. The advantage of their biogas digester is that

it is

small enough to be independently maintained by the individual family, and can

be

built without special technology.

My biggest reservation about biogas digesters is that the easiest way to gather

cow

manure is to keep the cows confined in a shed. This is not good for the health

or

the comfort of the cows. It is not Krsna's example either. The example Krsna

set

is that cows are taken to pasture in the morning and returned to the barn of

their

owner at night. Srila Prabhupada also made many statements stressing the

importance of adequate pasture for the cows.

Nevertheless, if adequate precautions are taken to insure that the cows get

sufficient pasture and are not made uncomfortable and unhealthy for the purpose

of

convenient manure gathering, it may still be possible to use a biogas digester.

your servant,

Hare Krsna dasi

April 14, 1999

> > > can still use it to cook or run a generator to produce electricity. It

> > > is free and cleans up the area the finished product is essentially

> > > sterile and can be spread on crops as an excellent fertilizer.

> > > I can provide plans for any body who wants to try it.

> >

> > Yes, please send them. I'm curious as to how you manage to collect,

> pressurise,

> > bottle (or whatever) and regulate the gas at a flow useable for cooking

> > or powering a gas generator. If it can be nicely utilised (safely from

> > the point of view of gas storage and pathogens), especially without huge

> > set-up costs, that would be a big plus. Is this for open-air cooking, or

> > how is the

> burnt-off

> > gas in terms of toxicity, etc?

I visited such a system in New Delhi, which was run by Sulabh International,

an organisation created to free Bungi wallah's from opression, (and

simultaneously glorify its founder, but that's something else).

The Sulabh system is this. They have a sewage disposal system that consists

of two leach pits which provide disgested/composted waste, which is

innofensive to clear out, thus saving Bungi's from having to cart the fresh

stuff. I suspect though that in the long run it will contribute a lot to

groundwater pollution, depending on how densly populated the area is, and

where the aquifers are situated.

They put up public toilets in various parts of India which are kept well

clean, and are used by many. In their Delhi head office they also have about

20 cubicles whose tanks are filled to overflowing with all that good stuff.

So they decided to make a biogas digestor, which they use to power some

demonstration experiments such as gas powered lights, a cooking stove (You

can tell by the smell of the gas where it came from, or maybe I was just

thinking it smelled that way, and I am favourable about this technology!),

and a generator. The generator looked to me to be about 3 to 6 KVA. It is a

diesel machine. What they do is start it with diesel, and then switch it

over to gas once it is warmed up. The demonstration goes on for a few

minutes.

Biogas digesters basicaly consist of an underground tank into which the

slurry to be digested is fed. On top of this another inverted tank, of some

weight is placed, which has a sliding seal around its edge. This tank floats

within the chamber, on the effluent, and floats or sinks according to the

amount of gas produced. There is a small hole in the top of it, through

which the gas flows. The weight of this tank is what causes the pressure. If

you were to open the pipe in the top of the tank, the tank would fall as the

gas emptied out.

I am not convinced about the efficiency of using the gas from such systems

to power generators. They had hundreds of people using the toilets, yet they

did not seem to use the gas very much. In the years I did on this research I

discovered that human waste is not good a producer of gas, not as good as

cow dung for example. For a start too much water is introduced into the

effluent, due to our disposal system. Some say that when mixed with a green

product, such as water hyacinth it can be better. There are rumours of such

systems being used to power street lights, in some places, but the

technology is not widely used. Some western sewage plants of large capacity

somtimes preoduce gas which is used to power generators, and offset the

running costs.

The Sulabh system simply used the pressure provided by the digestor hood to

run the generator, it was quite a large tank though, probabaly about 12 to

15 feet across, and therefore very heavy. They had a simple interface at the

generator, with a switch and pressure control gauge. I know in petrol

engines you can drill a hole in part of the carburettor for introducing gas.

Diesels I am not sure where you would feed it. You have to make sure that

the gas gets switched of in case the generator fails.

It's been sometime since I got into this, so I am not up to date, but I do

have a very strong impression that biogas digesters were very popular for

sometime, but generaly run into maintenance problems. I have seen many

abandoned systems. Earlier systems used metal cover tanks which corroded. I

have seen fibreglass tanks, but from my memory these tend to wear out.

Auroville is producing Ferro cement tanks which may be better.

It is not an easy system to maintain, you have to be into it. If you ARE

into it, then I suggest looking around for the most up to date systems.

There is a group which produces a quarterly information package on biogas, I

am not sure if that is the German 'GATE' organisation or another, there are

a few people into this kind of thing.

I am coming round more and more to thinking that Radha Krsna Prabhus system

of composting is probabaly the most efficient way to recycle this valuable

commodity.

> I know that the ISKCON Mauritius farm used to have a biogas digester in

> the 1980s.

> Perhaps Samba prabhu can tell us about it. Are they still using it? If

> not, why not?

I will try to find out. Apparently they are not using it, but I dont know

why.

>

> The U.N. has published a nice book showing the development of biogas

> digesters in about 50 different countries. The German development

> technology agency, GATE, also has a good book -- maybe they even have a

> website. China also used to have millions of biogas digesters.

India was also into it, and as I mentioned, in my travels I remember seeing

many unused systems. It may be that people would rather use bottled gas

instead of the hassle of maintaining the biogas system.

The

> advantage of their biogas digester is that it is small enough to be

> independently maintained by the individual family, and can be built

> without special technology.

It is low tech, but you have to be a bit of a builder or tinkerer to do it.

YS Samba das

April 14, 1999

"COM: Samba (das) SDG (Mauritius)" wrote:

> [Text 2232678 from COM]

>

> The Sulabh system is this. They have a sewage disposal system that consists

> of two leach pits which provide disgested/composted waste, which is

> innofensive to clear out, thus saving Bungi's from having to cart the fresh

> stuff. I suspect though that in the long run it will contribute a lot to

> groundwater pollution, depending on how densly populated the area is, and

> where the aquifers are situated.

If the biogas digester is properly designed, there should not be any ground

pollution associated with it at all.

>

> Biogas digesters basicaly consist of an underground tank into which the

> slurry to be digested is fed.

Technically, it is the organic wastes (plant and animal or human) which are fed

into the digester. "Slurry" is on of the end products.

There are two products -- the biogas, which is mostly methane gas, and burns

with no pollution (carbon dioxide and water, if I remember) -- and the "slurry"

which is the semi-liquid nitrogenous compound which can be spread for

fertilizer. As opposed to the process for making normal compost, the process

for a biogas digester is anerobic decomposition -- meaning it does not use

oxygen to break down the material.

> I am not convinced about the efficiency of using the gas from such systems

> to power generators.

I don't think that production of electrical energy is a very efficient way to

use the gas. In general, better to use the gas directly for cooking and

lighting. Although, I must say that the dairy school at the University of

Maine at Orono does use a biogas digester fueled by its cows to produce all the

electricity for the ag school.

Biogas digesters can be small scale or large scale. For the most part, it is

only the large scale ones which are used to produce electricity. If I remember

correctly, the city of Copenhagen uses a biogas digester to produce electricity

from its municipal garbage -- which is carefully sorted so as not to contain

metal, plastics or other undigestible components. Perhaps the Scandinavian

devotees could give us more information on this.

> There are rumours of such

> systems being used to power street lights, in some places, but the

> technology is not widely used. Some western sewage plants of large capacity

> somtimes preoduce gas which is used to power generators, and offset the

> running costs.

> Earlier systems used metal cover tanks which corroded. I

> have seen fibreglass tanks, but from my memory these tend to wear out.

> Auroville is producing Ferro cement tanks which may be better.

I believe the Chinese design uses simple concrete blocks. As I remember, the

fundamental difference between the Chinese design and the Indian design is that

the Chinese design is round and mostly sunk underground. The Indian design is

cubical, which requires much greater engineering expertise because so much

outward pressure is exerted on the corners by the gas.

Any time you are dealing with a highly combustible gas like this, safety

considerations are very important.

> I am coming round more and more to thinking that Radha Krsna Prabhus system

> of composting is probabaly the most efficient way to recycle this valuable

> commodity.

Of course, the advantage to the biogas digester is that it produces two

products

-- a fuel and a fertilizer. The composting method produces only fertilizer.

And, of course, rotational grazing is another possible way of producing

fertilizer -- especially since cows can be grazed directly on fields and

gardens, to consume and break down the agricultural waste that remains after

harvesting.

Definitely, we should not forget that the wealth which fueled the initial

phases

of the Industrial Revolution, was the result of increased agricultural

production, which historians directly attribute to increased agricultural

fertility because of increased cows (among several other agricultural factors).

We must remember that these cows provided increased fertility in the absence of

any elaborate composting or biogas system. It may even be that they were also

grazed directly on agricultural fields following the harvest.

In different circumstances, one method -- biogas, composting or rotational

grazing -- will be more appropriate than others, depending on the exact

situation, and the manpower and resources available to implement and maintain

the different systems.

I still feel that the best way to figure out all this stuff would be to set up

an actual varnasrama college which would emphasize setting up experimental

models of various different kinds of techniques. Too often, when we hear about

varnasama college, people proposing it are mostly interested in teaching

children how to do fire-sacrifices and study obscure Vedic rituals and

restrictions. In my opinion, this is practically useless -- either for

preaching or for community development. The emphasis should be on developing

local self-sufficiency, using the best expertise available -- from within or

from without the devotee community -- and using the materials that Krsna

provides locally.

What is needed is to find several wealthy donors who are willing to fund the

establishment of a varnasrama college which would be run more like an

agricultural school with various experimental and trial plots being developed

--

to give students a first-hand experience of developing the best systems for

their own particular situation.

your servant,

Hare Krsna dasi

April 14, 1999

Hare Krsna dasi wrote:

>Of course, the advantage to the biogas digester is that it produces two

>products

>-- a fuel and a fertilizer. The composting method produces only

>fertilizer.

>And, of course, rotational grazing is another possible way of producing

>fertilizer -- especially since cows can be grazed directly on fields and

>gardens, to consume and break down the agricultural waste that remains

>after harvesting.

The economics of the composting process have been missed here.

Two thirds of all the cow dung of an entire nation (like India) can be kept

and made into ghutties or kundas and used as free fuel as is the case in

Mayapur to some extent (sustainable system). .....Oh, sorry they buy in

these ghutties from out side sources they don't use their own cow dung.

N.B. No complicated or dangerous technology is involved with the making of

cow pats into fuel. We even did it in Ireland (and India, and we made them

cheaper than buying them in!). The heat given off by burning cow dung is

essential in the process of vegetarian cooking and the smoke is considered

purifying. (Vedic system) (The Lost Science of Organic Cultivation)

April 16, 1999

Please accept my humble obeisance's all glories to Sirla Prabhupada

Gentleman You shouldn't lock up your cows. As a child I went out in the

fields and gathered cow chips every day when I visited My grandmother in

Florida, USA. A tropical area in the US. In two weeks, I would have gathered

ten pickup trucks full of cow pies. I did that all by my self in about four

hours a day. I was a little kid perhaps six or seven. My grandmother lived

next to a huge (to me) field full of range cows, of evil disposition. They

charged, I ran for my life. My uncle would park his old battered pick up

truck in the fields. I collected cow pies. My reward ice cream and a candy

bar for each filled pick up truck. If a little kid could collect them that

easily so could you. But, If you put your cows in a barn at night, you

shouldn't have any trouble collecting their offerings. A well placed

concrete pad with a trench for urine would be good also. Urine is excellent

for bio gas plants, full of nitrogen. Also human dung and urine composts

just as well as cow pies. That can very easily be collected and placed in

the bio gas plant. Flushing drinking water and good compost down the drain

is offensive to me. If it has been through a human or animal it can go into

a bio gas plant. Use everything Krishna gives us and if we can get multiple

uses even better. Gas to fuel a generator (lights) or cooking fuel and

compost pretty neat huh.

Humans by the way on the average produce forty-four ounces of dung and

urine per day. Cows can produce thirty or forty pounds per day.

Hope that helps. Carol

April 17, 1999

> If the biogas digester is properly designed, there should not be any

> ground pollution associated with it at all.

Actualy I was reffering to the two pit latrine, which does pollute ground

water. You are right a biogas digester is pollution free.

> > Biogas digesters basicaly consist of an underground tank into which the

> > slurry to be digested is fed.

>

> Technically, it is the organic wastes (plant and animal or human) which

> are fed into the digester. "Slurry" is on of the end products.

Yes sorry, confused terminology in this context, actualy slurry in the

dictionary means any insoluble substance mixed with water.

> > I am not convinced about the efficiency of using the gas from such

> > systems to power generators.

>

> I don't think that production of electrical energy is a very efficient way

> to use the gas. In general, better to use the gas directly for cooking

> and lighting. Although, I must say that the dairy school at the

> University of Maine at Orono does use a biogas digester fueled by its cows

> to produce all the electricity for the ag school.

I was specificaly citing the case for human fueled digestors, it has been

shown however that mixed fuel digestors are more efficient.

>

> Biogas digesters can be small scale or large scale. For the most part, it

> is only the large scale ones which are used to produce electricity. If I

> remember correctly, the city of Copenhagen uses a biogas digester to

> produce electricity from its municipal garbage -- which is carefully

> sorted so as not to contain metal, plastics or other undigestible

> components. Perhaps the Scandinavian devotees could give us more

> information on this.

Yes there are a few cases where municipal waste is used, there is a lot more

energy available there. It is quite well known that when you talk of

alternative energy, hybrid systems which use several technologies, and

inputs are the most efficient. It is a matter of organising, and

environmental consciousness which the Scandinavians appear to be good at.

> I believe the Chinese design uses simple concrete blocks. As I remember,

> the fundamental difference between the Chinese design and the Indian

> design is that the Chinese design is round and mostly sunk underground.

> The Indian design is cubical, which requires much greater engineering

> expertise because so much outward pressure is exerted on the corners by

> the gas.

Actualy most of the systems I saw in India were also round, and sunk

underground, which is more efficient, as you dont have to cart the fuel up

into the tank, and the slurry flows out easily, in fact I dont think I have

ever seen a square one, maybe that was some years ago.

The system can use concrete blocks or bricks or whatever for the base tank,

but a floating pressure regulating tank is also an essential part of the

design, and this is the bit that gives trouble.

> Of course, the advantage to the biogas digester is that it produces two

> products -- a fuel and a fertilizer.

If you are prepared to put the work in, and have access to simple

technology, then biogas is good as you have mentioned above. But if you

really want to get to the root of simple living (which most of us don't seem

to) then the patties used for fuel are definately the easiest.

> In different circumstances, one method -- biogas, composting or rotational

> grazing -- will be more appropriate than others, depending on the exact

> situation, and the manpower and resources available to implement and

> maintain the different systems.

Exactly, all these considerations are site specific.

Sriniketan Prabhu, president of the farm here in Mauritius just informed me

about the system there, which illustrates that you do need to get a little

technical to run a biogas plant, and you need to put the work in.

Sriniketana Prabhu said;

>>The system is presently not working because the inside supports

(galvanised steel) rusted away after 6 years of use. It all has to be

redone and it cost money, because this time we'll do it in stainless steel.

Plus there are some other problems with the design we used that have to be

rectified. Apart from that, when the systems was working we were very

satisfied, although it is labor intensive.

YS Samba das

April 17, 1999

> If you are prepared to put the work in, and have access to simple

> technology, then biogas is good as you have mentioned above. But if you

> really want to get to the root of simple living (which most of us don't seem

> to) then the patties used for fuel are definately the easiest.

Please, let's not forget the big danger of using cow patties for cooking fuel.

That is: If too large a percentage of cow manure is converted into cooking

fuel, it will rob the soil of valuable nutrients.

In general, the purpose of cow manure is to provide nitrogen to replenish or

enrich the soil. When the patties are burnt -- the soil is robbed of its

fertility because the nitrogen goes right into the air.

Nitrogen however, it not required for cooking. What is required is carbon

compounds. With a biogas digester, the carbon compounds are burned for fuel,

but the nitrogen component is captured in the slurry and can be returned to the

soil.

-

When we talk about training ksatriyas, Srila Prabhupada mentions that they were

trained in science. In a varnasrama society it is important that not only the

vaisyas, but also the ksatriyas understand the important topic of how to

maintain healthy soil.

I wish that all our gurukula children were trained to think in terms of carbon

and nitrogen cycles. That way, they would understand that when you take

certain

chemicals out of the soil, you need to keep in mind how those chemicals will go

back into the soil at a later point.

When a community focuses on growing crops for export, rather than for local

consumption, this problem automatically arises. Usually it even arises with

local consumption, because of improper management of human manure. But also we

need to keep in mind that the soil can be robbed if we burn its products and

by-products -- such as weeds, wood and manure (which is produced when a cow or

human transforms crops from food into bodily products).

If only a very small percentage of manure is used for cooking, it's probably

not

be a problem, but if a large percentage is burned up as fuel, then it may

contribute to the deterioration of soil fertility.

your servant,

Hare Krsna dasi

April 18, 1999

>>If you are prepared to put the work in, and have access to simple

technology, then biogas is good as you have mentioned above. But if you really

want to get to the root of simple living (which most of us don't seem to) then

the patties used for fuel are definately the easiest.

>

On 17 Apr 1999, Hare Krsna dasi wrote:

 Please, let's not forget the big danger of using cow patties for

cooking fuel. That is:

If too large a percentage of cow manure is converted into cooking fuel, it

will rob the soil of valuable nutrients. In general, the purpose of cow manure

is to provide nitrogen to replenish or enrich the soil. When the patties are

burnt -- the soil is robbed of its fertility because the nitrogen goes right

into the air.

Plants all require nitrogen that regulates both the activities of all plants

and the animals that feed on them. It is the central building block of all

physiological cycles.

This is especially true in areas of sandy soil where every little bit of

organic matter in the soil is required in order to hold water in the top few

productive inches of the soil.

 Nitrogen however, it not required for cooking. What is required is

carbon compounds. With a biogas digester, the carbon compounds are burned for

fuel, but the nitrogen component is captured in the slurry and can be returned

to the soil.

Care must be exercised that this slurry does not contain high concentrations

of such minerals as aluminium and sodium as they will interfere with the

energy transfer cycles within the soil.

When cows are kept for long periods in an area to facilitate the collection of

their manure, you are altering the environment of the cow away from a natural

and simple life style. The same is true when you abandon grazing for ‘lot’ or

‘bunker feeding’. When there is a shortage of cow feed, then one must use such

methods to maintain the animals. However, this should only be for a short

temporary or seasonal period.

Just what results when you confine animals?

1. Accumulation of byproducts – leads to pollution of that soil and air space.

That portion of the ecosystem has to change. If you do not remove those

byproducts (dung and urine), that area of contamination will grow larger. That

area stops being agriculturally productive!

2. Feed has to be harvested and brought to the cows. Various microbes, not all

of them good, will accumulate there where feeding takes place. In addition,

insects will be drawn to that locality, many of which are carriers of disease

or who will create an environment in which disease will result.

3. You will need to provide an exercise area to keep less active muscles in

shape.

4. You will have to become expert in nutrition and mineral balance, be able to

diagnose mineral deficiency (excesses) diseases. Cows immune systems will not

receive the proper building blocks and you will have to act in their place

providing antibiotics and vaccines.

5. All of the above requires expenditures of money to accomplish or prevent

particular conditions that are unfavorable to your viewed endeavour. It takes

money to make money. Moreover, to pay for it the most logical method is to

have the cows make the money. Most profitable method of them doing it is

slaughter of their bodies.

-

 When we talk about training ksatriyas, Srila Prabhupada mentions that

they were trained in science. In a Varnasrama society, it is important that

not only the vaisyas, but also the ksatriyas understand the important topic of

how to maintain healthy soil.

Nicely said. The vaisyas intent should be toward production of foodstuffs, for

animals and man, not towards the accumulation of wealth. Money maybe required

in maintaining the system, to acquire it by taxation and distribute it

according to the betterment of society as a whole. That area of endeavours the

ksatriya must control and in order to do it wisely he needs to have a working

knowledge of the principles underlying food productivity. A Vaisya decides

that he will generate some capital by bunker feeding his cows so it is easy to

collect the manure. The ksatriya in turn must understand that that farmers

production will drop, a close eye kept on health conditions and he needs to

learn how to regulate that business. This he does by placing health

restrictions accompanied by permits. And so on, there are repercussions upon

the rest of society. By his limiting how many do this kind of business he is

maintaining a high level of production with low input, he is also keeping the

areas he has to police at a manageable level.

 I wish that all our gurukula children were trained to think in terms

of carbon and nitrogen cycles. That way, they would understand that when you

take certain chemicals out of the soil, you need to keep in mind how those

chemicals will go back into the soil at a later point.

Yes, this is needed, but it is not needed that everyone learns this, those who

are going to become one of the three varnas, Brahmana, Ksatriya or Vaisya.

Brahmanas are the watchdogs of order within society. It is their duty to point

out this area of disruption. It is the ksatriyas duty to regulate it and the

duty of the vaisyas to utilize it. Sudras have no need of this knowledge or an

aptitude to understand the ramifications thereof.

You must also not forget the calcium cycle. With out this element plants are

unable to function, they are not even able to stand up or stay unified, and

they fall apart.

 When a community focuses on growing crops for export, rather than for

local consumption, this problem automatically arises. Usually it even arises

with local consumption, because of improper management of human manure. But

also we need to keep in mind that the soil can be robbed if we burn its

products and by-products -- such as weeds, wood and manure (which is produced

when a cow or human transforms crops from food into bodily products).

In addition, we need to keep in mind that the soil can be robbed if we burn

its products and by-products. Such products as weeds, wood and manure, which

is produced when a cow or human transforms crops from food into bodily

products. The purpose of agricultural burning is to remove dense accumulation

of organic matter to facilitate the quick growth of plants. By this is meant

when there is a lot of material on the soil surface the sun can not penetrate

this covering to warm the soil so that seeds may germinate. Burning allows

this ‘shade’ to be removed and provides various minerals that were locked in

that organic material. Seeds can now germinate but there is a lack of

nitrogen, so there will be an initial growth and then the plant will slow

until it can transform from the air the needed nitrogen. If it had also a soil

form of nitrogen, there would be no slowing of growth.

 If only a very small percentage of manure is used for cooking, it's

probably not be a problem, but if a large percentage is burned up as fuel,

then it may contribute to the deterioration of soil fertility.

To reiterate, manure on pasture do not touch, manure in ‘holding lot’ turn

into compost for human food crops and if you are looking for production of

biogas this should be a side line not the main line of endeavour.

Ys,

Rohita dasa

April 21, 1999

>

>Dear Hare Krsna,

PAMHO, AGTSP.

>

>>. But if you

>> really want to get to the root of simple living (which most of us

don't seem

>> to) then the patties used for fuel are definately the easiest.

Personally I've cooked with cow patties, after making them myself and

drying them out. I agree its easy, as well as simple, and gives a

delightful aroma. What could be more conducive for developing a

simple, God- centred way of life than using ONLY products that the

cow and bull provide? Then we're really PROVING that cow protection

works- that the cow and bull ARE the mother and father because they

provide everything we need. They are undoubtedly "God's gifts to

mankind", but unless we can SHOW that, people will simply see cow

protection as, at best, nice sentiment, but not practical.

>

>Please, let's not forget the big danger of using cow patties for

cooking fuel.

>That is: If too large a percentage of cow manure is converted into

cooking

>fuel, it will rob the soil of valuable nutrients.

>

What is that large percentage? If one is not growing crops for cash,

then one only needs a small area for growing for one's needs. A few

cows and bulls will supply fertilizer for this amply- the rest can

be burnt, and the ash used as well.

>In general, the purpose of cow manure is to provide nitrogen to

replenish or

>enrich the soil. When the patties are burnt -- the soil is robbed

of its

>fertility because the nitrogen goes right into the air.

>

>Nitrogen however, it not required for cooking. What is required is

carbon

>compounds. With a biogas digester, the carbon compounds are burned

for fuel,

>but the nitrogen component is captured in the slurry and can be

returned to the

>soil.

>

This seems to be very environmentally friendly- all you require is

cow dung? I don't think so. In an earlier report it was mentioned it

requires technology to make this bio- gas digester- stainless steel,

concrete, etc. Again, its dependent on Ugra- karma- steel works,

factories, petroleum for transport of all the parts, polluting,

polluting, polluting mother earth, and forcing on people an

artificial way of life, which Prabhupada described as hellish..

People who are looking for an alternative will be far more impressed

if we use the cow patties, and simply burn them. We have to see what

is beneficial to the earth as a WHOLE - not just try to make our own

tiny section of it green, at the expense of polluting the rest.

Ultimately to return to Krsna is our goal. That's not possible

without pleasing the spiritual master, and to please the spiritual

master is not possible without FOLLOWING HIS DIRECTIONS. Srila

Prabhupada gave many directions regarding the farms, and he said that

the village system in India, where everything is based on the cow and

bull, is best, and is modelled after Krsna's pastimes in the

spiritual world. It should be what our farms are modelled after- he

said this MANY times- it could fill volumes. To grow or not grow

crops for cash is not a whimsical choice, it is essential to know the

instructions of our spiritual master and follow them as far as

possible, if we want to be happy in this life, reverse the misery of

the world and make it happy, and ultimately allow EVERYONE the

opportunity to go back home back to Godhead.

>-

>

>When we talk about training ksatriyas, Srila Prabhupada mentions

that they were

>trained in science. In a varnasrama society it is important that

not only the

>vaisyas, but also the ksatriyas understand the important topic of

how to

>maintain healthy soil.

>

>I wish that all our gurukula children were trained to think in terms

of carbon

>and nitrogen cycles. That way, they would understand that when you

take

>certain

>chemicals out of the soil, you need to keep in mind how those

chemicals will go

>back into the soil at a later point.

>

>When a community focuses on growing crops for export, rather than

for local

>consumption, this problem automatically arises. Usually it even

arises with

>local consumption, because of improper management of human manure.

But also we

>need to keep in mind that the soil can be robbed if we burn its

products and

>by-products -- such as weeds, wood and manure (which is produced

when a cow or

>human transforms crops from food into bodily products).

>

If there is only local consumption, this shouldn't be a problem .

Human waste can be recycled, as you've stated, and only a fraction of

dung would be required for fertilizer if its small and based on self-

sufficiency, why bring in technology? Technology can be used for

preaching - like printing books- but how is it preaching when we're

no longer showing how agriculture can go on without it?

>If only a very small percentage of manure is used for cooking, it's

probably

>not

>be a problem, but if a large percentage is burned up as fuel, then

it may

>contribute to the deterioration of soil fertility.

So keep it small- just for your own needs, live very simply- Indian

village life,save time for spiritual dev't.

>

>your servant,

>

>Niscala dd

>

____

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April 21, 1999