What about dogs and deer

[Guest guest]

Dogs, bless their uncomplicated little souls love to chaise deer and

naturally feel protective to its pack (you and your family) so when you go to

bed the dogs patrol its territory. They chase off intruders humans bears

deer et. At our temple retreat we had a bear that used to stroll through and

KC would tree it each time. He kept the range cattle out of our garden and

chased the elk and deer away also. We had a cat who kept the mouse

population on their toes. Krishna provides for us. Use what he offers us and

thank him for it!

Carol

[Guest guest]

Yes dogs are useful for many purposes. But they need meat to stay healthy,

how do we feed them?

ys. Gunamani d.d.

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 24 Dec 1999, COM: Gunamani (dd) ARD (Arhus - DK) wrote:

 

> [Text 2881388 from COM]

>

> Yes dogs are useful for many purposes. But they need meat to stay healthy,

> how do we feed them?

> ys. Gunamani d.d.

 

I think that many major dog-food manufacturers have disproved this theory.

They produce dog foods which are mostly soy and other grains, flavored

with meat. The dogs seem to stay pretty healthy by eating it.

 

And, after all, what is the meat that is commercially produced? It's

basically recycled soybeans.

 

When I was living at Gita-nagari, we did not feed the dogs and cats meat.

We fed them prasadam scraps and they stayed pretty healthy.

 

BUT-- you have to know what you are doing. We fed them lots of

whole-grain roles and dahl, and also subji which contained potatoes, ghee

and curd.

 

I noticed that about the time I left, other people had taken over the

feeding of the animals. In order to economize they fed them mostly rice

and bread. But the legumes in the form of dahl had been important to

complement the wheat-bread rolls to form a complete protien. Also the fat

(ghee) in the dahl was an important source of calories. Naturally, the

curd (more easily digested than plain milk) was another important source

of protein, calcium and vitamins.

 

When the animals diet was economized like this, over the next couple years

they became skinnier and skinnier. Eventually, someone said, "This won't

do. Look at these poor animals. We must feed them commercial dog food."

So at that time, they began to feed them commercial dog food. I'm not

sure what the practice is now.

 

When they were fed on the wheat-bread and dahl diet, the animals were

quite healthy. I will say that most of them were not musceled out like

some animals you see on commercial pet food -- but they were quite

healthy. Also, Harakanta's dog is quite healthy (he's also eating

infertile eggs, a good dietary supplement for him). In addition, the cats

had whatever mice they caught around the barn. I also noticed that the

cats used to love the fresh grain/soy mixture that we fed the cows. They

liked it when it was scooped out fresh into the cow's manger. They didn't

care about it if it was a couple hours old.

 

There are books about healthy vegetarian dogs and cats. These might be

useful to devotees. But the important thing is to follow the formula of

the commercial dog-food manufacturer and include plenty of legumes and

whole grains in their diet. Remember: Meat is just recycled soybeans and

grain. Again, don't forget curd, an important source of calcium.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

[Guest guest]

> Dogs, bless their uncomplicated little souls love to chaise deer and

> naturally feel protective to its pack (you and your family) so when you go

> to bed the dogs patrol its territory. They chase off intruders humans

> bears deer et. At our temple retreat we had a bear that used to stroll

> through and KC would tree it each time. He kept the range cattle out of

> our garden and chased the elk and deer away also. We had a cat who kept

> the mouse population on their toes. Krishna provides for us. Use what he

> offers us and thank him for it!

> Carol

 

Here in Denmark there is only one elk, it immigrated from Sweden across the

water. Deers are plenty, but the hunters take care of them. In Iskcon we

usually learn that devotees don´t keep pets, especially dogs, since they are

so muci and requires meat to eat. But on farms in the countryside I see the

need. We used to live on a KC farm also, me and my family, we brought our

dogs when we moved in, but were told to get rid of them, at the same time we

had huge problems with the deers eating the buds of our newplanted

appletrees. I think the dog should be welltrained and behaved though.

Otherwise they are also a pest.

Merry Christmas and Hare Krishna.

Your servant Trayimaya dasa

[Guest guest]

What did lord Chatanya feed his dogs? lord Krishna who had several little

dogs must have fed them something! You can buy vegetarian dog food at pet

stores. If you have extra milk or hens without roosters you have non fertile

eggs whets the problem?

[Guest guest]

> Yes dogs are useful for many purposes. But they need meat to stay healthy,

> how do we feed them?

> ys. Gunamani d.d.

 

I have known many people who kept dogs on a wholly vegetarian diet, with no

problem. Dogs are omniverous. Many dogs in India would be lucky to find a

piece of meat.

 

However, seeing as they are sort of ksatria natured, a few non fertile free

range eggs should suffice to keep them fired up. Maybe them being on an

enforced vegetarian diet, would give them more incentive to catch any tasty

deer, bear, monkey or what have you (if they were lucky, which I would

imagine almost never happens).

 

Otherwise just feed them on table scraps. Some people I know used to feed

their dog, with Dog busicuits, mixed with some gravy (Bisto gravy, which

does not contain any animal producs) and leftovers. Also milk is good.

 

While w are on the subject, I have heard that Dobermans make a very good

guard dog, any opinions on that?

 

YS Samba das

[Guest guest]

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN

 

 

 

On Fri, 24 Dec 1999, COM: Trayimaya (das) HKS (Aarhus - DK) wrote:

 

> [Text 2882309 from COM]

>

>

> Here in Denmark there is only one elk, it immigrated from Sweden across the

> water. Deers are plenty, but the hunters take care of them. In Iskcon we

> usually learn that devotees don´t keep pets, especially dogs, since they are

> so muci and requires meat to eat. But on farms in the countryside I see the

> need. We used to live on a KC farm also, me and my family, we brought our

> dogs when we moved in, but were told to get rid of them, at the same time we

> had huge problems with the deers eating the buds of our newplanted

> appletrees. I think the dog should be welltrained and behaved though.

> Otherwise they are also a pest.

> Merry Christmas and Hare Krishna.

> Your servant Trayimaya dasa

 

I used to think of writing an article titled, "No Pets Allowed." I had

heard of a number of instances in which devotees got a cow because they

thought it would make a nice pet. As time passed they would realize that

the cow required too much commitment on their part and did not fit into

their lifestyle. Then they wanted to get rid of it. It was frustrating

to hear of situations like this.

 

The point of that little digression is that it appears there is a

difference between a pet and an animal who is actually being engaged in

Krsna's service. A pet ox usually becomes a burden. A working ox becomes

an inspiration in devotional service.

 

It's similar with other animals. When they are actually serving Krsna,

they are inspiring.

 

It appears that Srila Prabhupada made the distinction between ordinary

pets and animals who had a job to do on the farm. In the Prabhupada

Varnasrama book (p. 236) in the conversation entitled "From the Cities to

the Villages' [27 May 77], Prabhupada expresses how he enjoyed seeing the

cats and dogs getting along peacefully at Gita-nagari. [Remember, on a

farm, cats and dogs can live in the barn, they don't need to be inside.]:

 

Prabhupada: Let them [the cows] remain happy and automatically...Just

like in our Philadelphia. Oh, such a big [cow]...giving thousands of

pounds [of milk]. Yes, we are doing this, [producing fatty milk]. Cans of

milk. Even the cat is happy. The dog is happy. There is no fight. Cat

is so happy, stroking on the back of the cows. Similarly, the dog is...

There is no "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" barking. I have seen it. Only through

the medium of milk. These are not stories. I have seen [at Gita-nagari

Farm]. And who is Satyabhama's husband?

 

Bhavananda: Oh, Parama...What's his name? (break)

 

Prabhupada: ...Make the whole land, people, very happy. You show this

example all over the world, this example in America. Don't spoil money.

show by exmple. Enough science and enough motorcar, that's all. No more

wanted. Kamam vavarsa parjanyah [sB 1.10.4]. Bring water from the sky.

Keep always land moist and green. This is nt my desire. It is Krsna's.

Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita, annad bhavanti bhutani [bg 3.14].

 

************************

 

Actually, Satyabhama used to tell how when Prabhupada visited Gita-nagari

in July 1976, he saw a cat and a dog lying peacefully together in an

unused calf stall. He commented on it, showing that he was pleased that

they were getting along so peacefully. So, in this conversation a year

later, he is apparently referring to that incident.

 

 

your servant,

 

 

Hare Krsna dasi

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 25 Dec 1999, COM: Samba (das) SDG (Mauritius) wrote:

 

> [Text 2883179 from COM]

>

> While w are on the subject, I have heard that Dobermans make a very good

> guard dog, any opinions on that?

>

> YS Samba das

 

Given our tragic record with bulls and oxen, I would not recommend any

devotees getting a Doberman pincer, unless they really know what they are

doing. Dobermans can be very viscious. Sometimes they have torn up and

even killed little children.

 

They are a good dog for drug dealers because once they bite someone, they

will not let go. I'm not a drug dealer, nor are any of the rest of us.

 

I have heard that if Dobermans are well-trained, they can be alright

around children. I have also heard of people who thought their Dobermans

were safe around their children and had the children killed or disfigured.

 

>From what I understand, it sounds like having a tame lion around the

house. It's possible for someone (Joy Adamson comes to mind) to do that

successfully -- but for the average person it would be foolhardy and

dangerous.

 

I think that in the US if your Doberman attacks someone, you are subject

to extra penalty because the Doberman is so viscious that it is considered

almost like a weapon.

 

Anyway, this are just things I have heard. Maybe other devotees have more

first-hand information.

 

 

Your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

[Guest guest]

There is an interesting web site full of info on this as well as vegetarian

sources for the few animal based enzymes that dogs and cats need. I believe

taurine is the main one.

 

Animals living in the country side should most likely get these from hunting

and scavenging, I believe.

 

The bulk of their food can be vegetarian proteins like soy.

 

Check out:

http://www.montanasky.net/vegepet

[Guest guest]

Please accept my humble obeisances.

> I have known many people who kept dogs on a wholly vegetarian diet, with

> no problem. Dogs are omniverous. Many dogs in India would be lucky to find

> a piece of meat.

Dogs in India are a pity.

>

> However, seeing as they are sort of ksatria natured, a few non fertile

> free range eggs should suffice to keep them fired up. Maybe them being on

> an enforced vegetarian diet, would give them more incentive to catch any

> tasty deer, bear, monkey or what have you (if they were lucky, which I

> would imagine almost never happens).

Actually I had a nice dogfriend once, she joined me when I lived in a sort

of free house where the door was always open. She was kind of running wild

and moved in on the attic to get her puppies. A transylvanian sheepdog.

Sheepdogs are clever!

Allthough she was guarding her teritory with much courage, she became

friendly when I helped her puppies downstairs as they started to run around

and were falling down the stairs. She was a good and protective friend of

mine for many years, got a lot of prasadam too.

Being a citydog she was very expert finding food behind restaurents and in

trash cans, she was also very good at begging.

 

Thanks also to Hare Krishna dasi Prabhu and Carol Prabhu for your comments.

 

However I have heard that in the long run, dogs have difficulties staying

healthy on a vegetarian diet and will eventually get blind and dvindle away.

Because they are not able to extract the proteins from beans and lentils

with their short intestines. Is that not true?

 

ys. Gunamani d.d.

[Guest guest]

> > Yes dogs are useful for many purposes. But they need meat to stay

> > healthy, how do we feed them?

> > ys. Gunamani d.d.

>

> I have known many people who kept dogs on a wholly vegetarian diet, with

> no problem. Dogs are omniverous. Many dogs in India would be lucky to find

> a piece of meat.

>

> However, seeing as they are sort of ksatria natured, a few non fertile

> free range eggs should suffice to keep them fired up. Maybe them being on

> an enforced vegetarian diet, would give them more incentive to catch any

> tasty deer, bear, monkey or what have you (if they were lucky, which I

> would imagine almost never happens).

>

> Otherwise just feed them on table scraps. Some people I know used to feed

> their dog, with Dog busicuits, mixed with some gravy (Bisto gravy, which

> does not contain any animal producs) and leftovers. Also milk is good.

>

> While w are on the subject, I have heard that Dobermans make a very good

> guard dog, any opinions on that?

>

> YS Samba das

 

 

In my humble opinion, trying to make dogs vegetarian is like trying to

convince Sri Arjuna to leave the battlefield and join a Hare Krsna temple

after Sri Krsna lectured him for about an hour and a half to accept his

NATURE (because he would be FORCED to anyway) and stay on the battlefield.

 

Now we are trying to make DOGS brahmanas, too!? There is no sin in a dog

eating meat.

 

If Sri Bhimasena came to visit us would we cook him what he wants or what WE

want to feed him? Draupadi did not seem to have a problem cooking him meat

everyday for years.

 

My suggestion would be to not keep a dog unless you are willing to provide

it protection according to its guna and karma.

[Guest guest]

>I think that in the US if your Doberman attacks someone, you are subject

>to extra penalty because the Doberman is so viscious that it is considered

>almost like a weapon.

 

>Anyway, this are just things I have heard. Maybe other devotees have more

>first-hand information.

 

Well in England we have had the same problems. These types of dogs and

pitbull terriers can be deadly and have turned on children.

I would not live with one, or any dog in my house. However, to have a guard

dog could be necessary if kept outside.

 

I do prefer the idea of the gun to the dog for killing such vermin as deer,

boar etc. It would be quicker and cleaner for all concerned. We may also

want to consider what the effect on neighbors might be....

 

>It depends a lot on how heavy is the deer pressure. With light pressure

>(low population), some things work, that won't work in heavy pressure.

>Chained dogs don't work in New Vrindaban where the deer are present in

>extremely high numbers. Even it varies. At our house, we can plant out

>flowers outside the deer fence that aren't bothered, but at another house

>only 2 miles away, the deer eat the same plants.

 

Srila Prabhupada said in regard to protection, I think, 'What is this

nonsence about bow and arrow, that is another follishness. If you can take

gun, take gun.' (from conversations books)

 

I don't think we can be too cart blanch about many of these questions. Pest

problems have been discussed before... In my case at present I would not be

present on any farm necessarily long enough to look after a dog. Therefore

preference can be there. We all have our different inclinations. And someone

has to know how to use gun. It can be a very useful tool... As we have seen

in Mayapur.

 

OK, I know they're made of metal.

I'm not the man with the golden gun.