Guest guest Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Namaste, What is meant by asat? It translates to non-existence, but what sort of non-existence is this? Does asat exclude even empty space? Or can empty space be also considered asat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Namaste Shri Narayana-ji. My understanding: Asat is unreal, that which is non-existent. The examples given are "the horns of a hare" and "son of a barren woman". Both are impossibilities. MithyA: All the things in the world (both external and internal) are mithyA. The whole universe is mithyA. So, empty space is also mithyA because it is not non-existent. The thought of the "son of a barren woman" or "a hare with horns" is also mithyA because as a thought you conjure up a mental image of such an impossibility. Thus, that thought (mental image) is mithyA but what is meant by that thought is asat or unreal. To differentiate mithyA from unreal, you can call it non-real in English. Sat is Real. The Reality or Truth of everything - Brahman. MithyA has no existence apart from or independent of Sat. Sat is like gold in gold ornaments. Gold can exist alone. No ornament can exist independent of gold. Thus Sat is, the mithyA universe of names and forms (nAma-rUpa) is. It cannot be vice versa. PraNAms. Madathil Nair ______________ advaitin, "narayana_kl_71" <narayana_kl_71> wrote: > What is meant by asat? It translates to non-existence, but what sort > of non-existence is this? Does asat exclude even empty space? Or can > empty space be also considered asat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Shree narayana - PraNAms Asat refers absence of any locus for the object -Ex. vandhyaa putraH - son of a barren women. We had extensive discussion in the past (my self Shree Murthy gaaru) on this topic. The topic is covered in the Advaita Siddhi. One may be able down load the discussions. Sat is that which is trikaaala abaadhitam - that which cannot be negated in three periods. mithya is that which appears to be there (locus is there) but upon further analysis it is not what it appears to be. some times the word asat is used in the context of mithya and therefore confusion can arise. sat cannot be negated. asat need not be negated since it is not there for negation. Whatever that can be negated can only be mithya. Whatever that can be negated can only be superimposed name and form (the world) but not substantive which is Brahman. Hope this helps. Hari OM! Sadananda --- narayana_kl_71 <narayana_kl_71 > wrote: > Namaste, > > What is meant by asat? It translates to non-existence, but what sort > of non-existence is this? Does asat exclude even empty space? Or can > empty space be also considered asat? > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 mithya is that which appears to be there (locus is there) but upon further analysis it is not what it appears to be. praNAms Sri Sadananda prabhuji Hare Krishna That is really beautifully said...yes, asat snake did have the locus in the rope but snake *as such* does not have any existence at any point of time is adhishTAnaM rope. Likewise, this jagat too has only temporary existence with limited time & space frame restricted to one particular avasTha & depends on adhishTAnaM which is trikAla abhAdita...Hence, the declaration brahma satya, jagat mithya from our advaita AchArya. Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 >bhaskar.yr (AT) in (DOT) abb.com ... Likewise, this jagat too has only temporary existence >with limited time & space frame restricted to one particular avasTha & >depends on adhishTAnaM which is trikAla abhAdita... ...... >bhaskar Bhaskarji - I just finished the Memorial Day weekend camp on Mandukya Agama prakaraNa - I must say, the parallelism between the dream state and the waking state are exact. I should start resuming my series soon. Hari OM! Sada _______________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Namaste, Thanks for the replies. The taittirIya upanishad has some comments on asat which are currently beyond my comprehension - 1. asat indeed was there(!) in the beginning. From that sat was born. (The above idea is criticized in the chhAndogya upanishad by uddAlaka. Please see ch. 6.2.1). 2. He who knows brahman as asat becomes non-existent. Any comments on the word "asat" in these contexts are welcome. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 1. asat indeed was there(!) in the beginning. From that sat was born. (The above idea is criticized in the chhAndogya upanishad by uddAlaka. Please see ch. 6.2.1). 2. He who knows brahman as asat becomes non-existent. Any comments on the word "asat" in these contexts are welcome. Thanks. praNAms Hare Krishna I think you might be aware of our bhagavadpAda's commentaries on these both upanishad maNtra-s ...Kindly go through it & let us know if you find any difficulty in reconciliation. Kindly note context & lakshyArtha are very important while understanding upanishadic purports. Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Bhaskarji - I just finished the Memorial Day weekend camp on Mandukya Agama prakaraNa - I must say, the parallelism between the dream state and the waking state are exact. I should start resuming my series soon. praNAms Sri Sadananda prabhuji Hare Krishna It is very nice to know that again you are starting mAndUkya series...By the way, dvaitins' argue that kArikA's praThama prakaraNa (first chapter) i.e Agama prakaraNa is upanishad...have you touched this topic in your notes prabhuji?? Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 advaitin, "narayana_kl_71" <narayana_kl_71> wrote: > > Namaste, > > Thanks for the replies. The taittirIya upanishad has some comments on > asat which are currently beyond my comprehension - > Pranams Shri Narayana ji, > 1. asat indeed was there(!) in the beginning. From that sat was born. > > (The above idea is criticized in the chhAndogya upanishad by uddAlaka. > Please see ch. 6.2.1). Response: In the Taittiriyopanishad, in the context of the quoted portion, 'asat' means 'avyaakrita', the unmanifest state prior to creation. The common tendency to regard that which is seen and available for experience as 'existent' and the opposite of this as 'non-existent' is alluded to by the Sruti and it terms the unmanifest, that is unseen, as asat. It is from this state that the naama-rUpeNa vyaakrita prapancha manifests. The asat is to be regarded as the seed state of the sat that manifests and is available for experience in waking and dream. Thus asat is analogous to the sleep state, the Pralaya state of the macrocosm. The Chhandogya 6.2.1 context has to be seen as shunya of the Bauddhas. It is for this reason that the Upanishad specifies that view as 'some people say' and the Bhashyam criticizes it. Thus 'asat' in this context is opposed to the Upanishadic teaching of Sat as the cause of the universe. You further quote: > 2. He who knows brahman as asat becomes non-existent. > > Any comments on the word "asat" in these contexts are welcome. Thanks. > Response: The above is a part of the Taittiriya quote you have mentioned above. The Upanishad is concerned that an aspirant might hold Brahman as 'asat', non-existent, and not put forth the necessary effort to attain Brahman. The Bhashya says, such a person becomes ineligible to practice any purushartha. So, the teaching is: Regard Brahman as existent and proceed in Sadhana. The one who holds Brahman as asat himself becomes 'non-existent' in the sense that he wastes himself away. The Kathopanishad says 'asti ityeva upalabdhavyaH' = one should regard Brahman as 'It Is'. For, to such an aspirant Brahman reveals Itself. The one who believes in an Existing God alone is called 'Astika'. Your question about 'asat' is quite appropriate as it takes different meanings in different contexts. Warm Regards, subbu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 ....By >the way, dvaitins' argue that kArikA's praThama prakaraNa (first chapter) >i.e Agama prakaraNa is upanishad...have you touched this topic in your >notes prabhuji?? Bhaskarji - to me that is a mute question. The style of mantras and the karakas are different. The first one is prose style while karikas are in anuShTup chandhas. That the karikas provide gloss of previous mantras are very clear from their direct meaning. Their major contention is that the whole upanishad only explains about the parabrahman rather than equating the self with total self. The equation is very clear with the upanishad's declations: 'ayam aatma brahma' and soyam aatmaa chatushpaat'. I proceed with how it should be interpreted rather than concerned about their interpretations. I still have to complete my introduction bringing the micro and macro cosmic aspects. Let us see how the analysis proceeds. For those who are interested, the two-day camp talks are becoming available in MP3-CD format and can be ordered with postage due. Perhaps Shree Ram Chandran who was instrumental in the organization of the camp can provide the details when they become available. Hari OM! Sadananda >Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! >bhaskar > > _______________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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