All people can become Priests

[Guest guest]

SrI:

 

Daer Sri Venkataramani :

 

The AchAryAs have a different mission and can not openly

enter the dirty world of politics . They have to provide

guidance in a subtle way .This has nothing to do with lack of

courage as you indicate. They have to weigh in the sensitivities

and be sure whether they are helping or harming their cause .

 

The previous CM of TN decided to go after one of the Mataadhipathis

and we know the results . If a government wants to foist a case

and pursue the travel on a rotten road , there is precious little

one can do except thru the lengthy battle in the courts .

 

We have lived thru one such episode in the Fourties in the heyday of

so called "PeriyAr" out of whose ashes today's opportunists arose .These power hungry units have an agenda to position their own friends , cohorts and relatives to rob and plunder .

 

I do not see much point in asking the MatAdhipathys to get their

hands dirty in the process of dealing with these politicians , who

will not stop at anything .

 

This episode will also pass . The TN govt can declare on top of

the roofs as to what they want to impose . Not much will happen .Their Hindu Endowment Board is a laughing stock .

We have to sit this out and let these be sorted out at the level of

ciitzens and courts .

 

V.Sadagopan

 

P.S : These low minded politicians are not looking for PramANams

on Vedam and Aagamam to educate themselves to arrive at a rational

decision . They know exactly waht they want and are after their

goals of amassment of wealth thru their networks . They could not

care less as what happens at the temples beyond the appointment of

their cronies to pilfer .

 

*****************************************************************

Imput from Sri R.Venkataramani:

 

very rarely do religious leaders provide leadership from a spiritual perspective. they often lack the courage and knowledge - simple and plain. if any one can become archakas, why did they not initiate it? if any one cannot, why are they not opposing? instead of waiting for others to speak up for the cause, let us unite, learn the real facts based on sastras and fight to protect the tradition.

i live in chennai and ready for action on this. we have a group of youth who will unite to support this. any one interested in protecting veda dharma is free to call me on 9840940108 any time of the day.

best regards

rajaram v

**************************************************************

govindakrishnan alagar <alagar_g > wrote:

 

Dear Shrivaishnavites,

Fund collection would be needed for fighting the cause against the order of the Govt. ot Tamil Nadu not only abroad but also in India. Before that a forum of eminent and knowledgable persons (those who have knowledge in agamas, vedas etc.) has to be formed with the consent of leading aacharyas and Hindu religious matathipathis. I honestly hope that the step for forum would be initiated by our Aandavan ashram or srimatam or both. It should be made clear to the public by eminent men by articles, 'patti mantrams' that the peaceful fight is not by Brahmins against other sections of the society but the fight against an insensitive order of the Government which cares for a tuppence to the heritage and basic faiths of the Hindu religion. The Government is cleverly trying to paint this issue as a step to remove the so called monopoly of temple priest hood from Brahmins. This myth should be exploded by all peacful methods. Large segments of real devotees would oppose the

Government move. They only need a lead. A Government which proclaims no faith in God and worship (but will worship the statues of their leaders, garlend them and lit agarbathis!) and which follows the leader who called the believers of God as barbarians, ironically brings in legislation makig in roads into temple activity.

I do not agree that we do not have the strength. Will only is needed and the lead has to come from the aacharyas and eminent personalities. They cannot expect the common citizen to take up the cause unless they give the lead. I am yet to see or hear a single objection from any religous head or men of eminence. That is our misfortune.

A.Govindakrishnan

[Guest guest]

Adiyen Dasan,

will some one please educate me as to why this is a rediculous move by

the Government.

When srivaishnavam is not limited to brahmins, when we proudly call

ourselves to prapannas and the prapanna jana kootasthar himself was

not a brahmin, why should this move by the Government be oppsed by us

Sri Vaishnavites?

I believe that the Government order specifies that a candidate

aspiring to become a temple priest should be qualified in agama

shastras, I am only happy that there could be others who will be

comming into the fold undergong proper training and initiation in

pancharathra or Vaikanasa agamas.

That apart, I know for sure that the poor temple bhattachars as they

are today are not accorded proper social recognition even among the

Brahmins,(particularly of Sriramngam) they are branded as "Choliaas"

and what not. It is not coustomery to get or give girls in marriage to

and from their families. So what is lost for us to unite and fight

against.

Please correct me if I am wrong in my thinking.

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan

Vasu venkataraghavan.

[Guest guest]

adiyan dasan,

i totally agree with vasu line of questioning..

I just wish we need to stress the point to goverment to adopt a clear method to judge the qualification of the priests and even make sure whether the preist's are strictly following the agama-rethi's. I would even appreciate this gesture becoz the priests so called brahmins who are failing in following the aghama rethi's can also be corrected.

 

"Vasu Venkat.K" <vasu_venkat (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Adiyen Dasan,

will some one please educate me as to why this is a rediculous move by

the Government.

When srivaishnavam is not limited to brahmins, when we proudly call

ourselves to prapannas and the prapanna jana kootasthar himself was

not a brahmin, why should this move by the Government be oppsed by us

Sri Vaishnavites?

I believe that the Government order specifies that a candidate

aspiring to become a temple priest should be qualified in agama

shastras, I am only happy that there could be others who will be

comming into the fold undergong proper training and initiation in

pancharathra or Vaikanasa agamas.

That apart, I know for sure that the poor temple bhattachars as they

are today are not accorded proper social recognition even among the

Brahmins,(particularly of Sriramngam) they are branded as "Choliaas"

and what not. It is not coustomery to get or give girls in marriage to

and from their families. So what is lost for us to unite and fight

against.

Please correct me if I am wrong in my thinking.

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan

Vasu venkataraghavan.

[Guest guest]

I totally agree with Sri. Venkatramani's move. Let me ask how many Brahmins can call him from the overseas? Are we still united? Do we have the courage to fight against this clown government? We should not be silent in this regard.

 

 

 

 

OppiliappanFrom: v_raja_ram Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 08:05:57 -0700 All people can become PriestsSrI:Daer Sri Venkataramani :The AchAryAs have a different mission and can not openlyenter the dirty world of politics . They have to provideguidance in a subtle way .This has nothing to do with lack ofcourage as you indicate. They have to weigh in the sensitivities and be sure whether they are helping or harming their cause .The previous CM of TN decided to go after one of the Mataadhipathisand we know the results . If a government wants to foist a case and pursue the travel on a rotten road , there is precious little one can do except thru the lengthy battle in the courts .We have lived thru one such episode in the Fourties in the heyday of so called "PeriyAr" out of whose ashes today's opportunists arose .These power hungry units have an agenda to position their own friends , cohorts and relatives to rob and plunder .I do not see much point in asking the MatAdhipathys to get theirhands dirty in the process of dealing with these politicians , whowill not stop at anything . This episode will also pass . The TN govt can declare on top of the roofs as to what they want to impose . Not much will happen .Their Hindu Endowment Board is a laughing stock .We have to sit this out and let these be sorted out at the level ofciitzens and courts .V.SadagopanP.S : These low minded politicians are not looking for PramANamson Vedam and Aagamam to educate themselves to arrive at a rationaldecision . They know exactly waht they want and are after theirgoals of amassment of wealth thru their networks . They could not care less as what happens at the temples beyond the appointment oftheir cronies to pilfer . *****************************************************************Imput from Sri R.Venkataramani:very rarely do religious leaders provide leadership from a spiritual perspective. they often lack the courage and knowledge - simple and plain. if any one can become archakas, why did they not initiate it? if any one cannot, why are they not opposing? instead of waiting for others to speak up for the cause, let us unite, learn the real facts based on sastras and fight to protect the tradition. i live in chennai and ready for action on this. we have a group of youth who will unite to support this. any one interested in protecting veda dharma is free to call me on 9840940108 any time of the day. best regards rajaram v************************************************************** govindakrishnan alagar <alagar_g > wrote: Dear Shrivaishnavites,Fund collection would be needed for fighting the cause against the order of the Govt. ot Tamil Nadu not only abroad but also in India. Before that a forum of eminent and knowledgable persons (those who have knowledge in agamas, vedas etc.) has to be formed with the consent of leading aacharyas and Hindu religious matathipathis. I honestly hope that the step for forum would be initiated by our Aandavan ashram or srimatam or both. It should be made clear to the public by eminent men by articles, 'patti mantrams' that the peaceful fight is not by Brahmins against other sections of the society but the fight against an insensitive order of the Government which cares for a tuppence to the heritage and basic faiths of the Hindu religion. The Government is cleverly trying to paint this issue as a step to remove the so called monopoly of temple priest hood from Brahmins. This myth should be exploded by all peacful methods. Large segments of real devotees would oppose theGovernment move. They only need a lead. A Government which proclaims no faith in God and worship (but will worship the statues of their leaders, garlend them and lit agarbathis!) and which follows the leader who called the believers of God as barbarians, ironically brings in legislation makig in roads into temple activity. I do not agree that we do not have the strength. Will only is needed and the lead has to come from the aacharyas and eminent personalities. They cannot expect the common citizen to take up the cause unless they give the lead. I am yet to see or hear a single objection from any religous head or men of eminence. That is our misfortune. A.Govindakrishnan

[Guest guest]

SrI:

 

Dear Sri Venkataramani :

 

Thanks for your note below asking for PramANams as to why

every one should not perform Temple AarAdhanams .

 

I will confine my reamrks to Sri VaishNavam .

As you know , It has two Aagamams : VaikAnasam

and PaancharAthram .

 

In VaikAnasam , You have to be born into VaikAnasa

priest Families to be eligible to offer VaikAnasa

mode of worship . All people trained inPaancharAthra

aagamam --- which takes 2 to 3 years of intense study

to recieve the Dheekshaa at special schools at

Melkote , Kaanchipuram --- can not even go into

VaikAnasam temples such as Oppiliappan Sannidhi ,

Thirumala , Tiruvahendhrapuram , ThirukkOvilUr

and other similar Temples observing VaikAnasa worship

from time immemorial.

 

PaancharAthra mode of worship is more open and is used

at home and temples . This requires Training in Sanskrit ,

Vedams and the subtle points related to gaining

the PaancharAthra Dheeksha . You are welcome to

stop at the Kaanchi PaancharAthram expert's ( Battar's)

house in South Street to gain an appreciation of

the details of the training , which is a prerequisite

to serving as Archakaas.TTD Monograph on PaancharAthra

Aagamam will also be helpful to you . When AarAdhanam

is performed in this manner , then Saannidhyam prevails

in the ArchA Moorthys .

 

Let me list a few skills that is needed for an archakA

to serve as a qualified priest in the Temple :

 

1. VaasudEva PuNyAhAvacahnam

2. Nithya Homam

3. Laghu SamprOkshaNam

4. Saanthi Homam

5. Agni Prathishtai

6. KalyANa Uthsavam Performance

7. PavithrOthsavam

8. Construction of Yaaga Saalaa( ChakrAbhjala

MaNDalam construction , RakshA Bhandhanam---)

9. Dhanur Maasa AarAdhanam

10. BruhmOthsavam ( angurrpaNam to avabhrutha SnAnam)

11. MudhrAs , VisEsha Thirumanjanams

12. Mukhya Manthrams for ThiruvArAdhanam

 

and many other things .

 

With their hatred of Sanskrit and Sanskrit based

ancient cultures , these louts from the political

wards without any bhakthi or bhAvam will never becoem

qualified . Granted that the quality of training of

today's archakAs leaves much to be desired .Their

training should be improved . Usually , a skilled

Aagamic expert resides at the temple or is invited

from Kaanchi or Bangalore or Melkote for Big events.

 

Coming back , Sri VaishNavAs can come from any of

the 4 VarNams . Out of his infinite compassion for all,

AchArya RaamAnuja created kaimkaryam opportunities for

Saatthina and SaatthAtha MudaliyArs . You can see it

in operation even today at Srirangam and Thirumala .

 

The government may meddle what all it wants for its

own hidden agenda ;Atleast , some the temples will

nourish the ancient Aagamic method of worship and

protect our Vedic culture .

 

V.Sadagopan

*****************************************

Dear Sri Sadagopan,

It is not my intention to demean the mutts. Before taking up a cause and fighting for it, we need to be clear on what the truth is. Do we have a clear answer with proper pramanas on whether non-brahmins can perform archaka service? I hear different opinions from different people and there is no deliberation or clarity. Beyond saying, "adhellam panna koodadhunnaa", I dont see any concrete quotation of pramanas. Some Sri Vaishnavas say that all one needs is agama initiation and any one is eligible to perform archaka worship.

Do mutts have a clear position on the topic? Is there clarity on if and why non-brahmins should not perform arca vigraha aradhana at the temples?

Best Regards

Rajaram V.

Rajaram Venkataramani <v_raja_ram > wrote:

SrI:

 

Daer Sri Venkataramani :

 

The AchAryAs have a different mission and can not openly

enter the dirty world of politics . They have to provide

guidance in a subtle way .This has nothing to do with lack of

courage as you indicate. They have to weigh in the sensitivities

and be sure whether they are helping or harming their cause .

 

The previous CM of TN decided to go after one of the Mataadhipathis

and we know the results . If a government wants to foist a case

and pursue the travel on a rotten road , there is precious little

one can do except thru the lengthy battle in the courts .

 

We have lived thru one such episode in the Fourties in the heyday of

so called "PeriyAr" out of whose ashes today's opportunists arose .These power hungry units have an agenda to position their own friends , cohorts and relatives to rob and plunder .

 

I do not see much point in asking the MatAdhipathys to get their

hands dirty in the process of dealing with these politicians , who

will not stop at anything .

 

This episode will also pass . The TN govt can declare on top of

the roofs as to what they want to impose . Not much will happen .Their Hindu Endowment Board is a laughing stock .

We have to sit this out and let these be sorted out at the level of

ciitzens and courts .

 

V.Sadagopan

 

P.S : These low minded politicians are not looking for PramANams

on Vedam and Aagamam to educate themselves to arrive at a rational

decision . They know exactly waht they want and are after their

goals of amassment of wealth thru their networks . They could not

care less as what happens at the temples beyond the appointment of

their cronies to pilfer .

 

*****************************************************************

Imput from Sri R.Venkataramani:

 

very rarely do religious leaders provide leadership from a spiritual perspective. they often lack the courage and knowledge - simple and plain. if any one can become archakas, why did they not initiate it? if any one cannot, why are they not opposing? instead of waiting for others to speak up for the cause, let us unite, learn the real facts based on sastras and fight to protect the tradition.

i live in chennai and ready for action on this. we have a group of youth who will unite to support this. any one interested in protecting veda dharma is free to call me on 9840940108 any time of the day.

best regards

rajaram v

**************************************************************

govindakrishnan alagar <alagar_g > wrote:

 

Dear Shrivaishnavites,

Fund collection would be needed for fighting the cause against the order of the Govt. ot Tamil Nadu not only abroad but also in India. Before that a forum of eminent and knowledgable persons (those who have knowledge in agamas, vedas etc.) has to be formed with the consent of leading aacharyas and Hindu religious matathipathis. I honestly hope that the step for forum would be initiated by our Aandavan ashram or srimatam or both. It should be made clear to the public by eminent men by articles, 'patti mantrams' that the peaceful fight is not by Brahmins against other sections of the society but the fight against an insensitive order of the Government which cares for a tuppence to the heritage and basic faiths of the Hindu religion. The Government is cleverly trying to paint this issue as a step to remove the so called monopoly of temple priest hood from Brahmins. This myth should be exploded by all peacful methods. Large segments of real devotees would oppose the

Government move. They only need a lead. A Government which proclaims no faith in God and worship (but will worship the statues of their leaders, garlend them and lit agarbathis!) and which follows the leader who called the believers of God as barbarians, ironically brings in legislation makig in roads into temple activity.

I do not agree that we do not have the strength. Will only is needed and the lead has to come from the aacharyas and eminent personalities. They cannot expect the common citizen to take up the cause unless they give the lead. I am yet to see or hear a single objection from any religous head or men of eminence. That is our misfortune.

A.Govindakrishnan

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhagavathas,

I am saddened about the state of our temple management as I learn more about the current situation.I am trying to comapre USA vs India in terms of the religious activities.

Here in USA, Separation of religion and State is clear in principle at the least eventhough there may be subtle influences.More or less the churches and temples manage their funds and actvities.

I did not realize the extent of the so called Secular Government controlling the Hindu Temples but no Influence over Churches and Mosques.

If India wants to practice True Democracy it should leave Temples alone to be managed by Religious Organizations under various Mathams and Trusts or treat Temples,Churches and Mosques.

Of Course, one can blame at the least to some extent the cureent situation because of some archakas either not knowledeble enough or not practicing the protocols properly and giving into some greed probably beacuse of lack of income etc.

Because meagre incomes their children are encouraged to go to other professions but again one follows a ceratin path in Life as per one's Nature not necessarily per birth tradition.

I also strongly believe the traditions and knowledge are transmitted thru Genetic material unless the Environment alters them.

Thanks for letting me share my feelings.

Adiyen

Raghava velugaleti Charya

Rajaram Venkataramani <v_raja_ram > wrote:

SrI:

 

Dear Sri Venkataramani :

 

Thanks for your note below asking for PramANams as to why

every one should not perform Temple AarAdhanams .

 

I will confine my reamrks to Sri VaishNavam .

As you know , It has two Aagamams : VaikAnasam

and PaancharAthram .

 

In VaikAnasam , You have to be born into VaikAnasa

priest Families to be eligible to offer VaikAnasa

mode of worship . All people trained inPaancharAthra

aagamam --- which takes 2 to 3 years of intense study

to recieve the Dheekshaa at special schools at

Melkote , Kaanchipuram --- can not even go into

VaikAnasam temples such as Oppiliappan Sannidhi ,

Thirumala , Tiruvahendhrapuram , ThirukkOvilUr

and other similar Temples observing VaikAnasa worship

from time immemorial.

 

PaancharAthra mode of worship is more open and is used

at home and temples . This requires Training in Sanskrit ,

Vedams and the subtle points related to gaining

the PaancharAthra Dheeksha . You are welcome to

stop at the Kaanchi PaancharAthram expert's ( Battar's)

house in South Street to gain an appreciation of

the details of the training , which is a prerequisite

to serving as Archakaas.TTD Monograph on PaancharAthra

Aagamam will also be helpful to you . When AarAdhanam

is performed in this manner , then Saannidhyam prevails

in the ArchA Moorthys .

 

Let me list a few skills that is needed for an archakA

to serve as a qualified priest in the Temple :

 

1. VaasudEva PuNyAhAvacahnam

2. Nithya Homam

3. Laghu SamprOkshaNam

4. Saanthi Homam

5. Agni Prathishtai

6. KalyANa Uthsavam Performance

7. PavithrOthsavam

8. Construction of Yaaga Saalaa( ChakrAbhjala

MaNDalam construction , RakshA Bhandhanam---)

9. Dhanur Maasa AarAdhanam

10. BruhmOthsavam ( angurrpaNam to avabhrutha SnAnam)

11. MudhrAs , VisEsha Thirumanjanams

12. Mukhya Manthrams for ThiruvArAdhanam

 

and many other things .

 

With their hatred of Sanskrit and Sanskrit based

ancient cultures , these louts from the political

wards without any bhakthi or bhAvam will never becoem

qualified . Granted that the quality of training of

today's archakAs leaves much to be desired .Their

training should be improved . Usually , a skilled

Aagamic expert resides at the temple or is invited

from Kaanchi or Bangalore or Melkote for Big events.

 

Coming back , Sri VaishNavAs can come from any of

the 4 VarNams . Out of his infinite compassion for all,

AchArya RaamAnuja created kaimkaryam opportunities for

Saatthina and SaatthAtha MudaliyArs . You can see it

in operation even today at Srirangam and Thirumala .

 

The government may meddle what all it wants for its

own hidden agenda ;Atleast , some the temples will

nourish the ancient Aagamic method of worship and

protect our Vedic culture .

 

V.Sadagopan

*****************************************

Dear Sri Sadagopan,

It is not my intention to demean the mutts. Before taking up a cause and fighting for it, we need to be clear on what the truth is. Do we have a clear answer with proper pramanas on whether non-brahmins can perform archaka service? I hear different opinions from different people and there is no deliberation or clarity. Beyond saying, "adhellam panna koodadhunnaa", I dont see any concrete quotation of pramanas. Some Sri Vaishnavas say that all one needs is agama initiation and any one is eligible to perform archaka worship.

Do mutts have a clear position on the topic? Is there clarity on if and why non-brahmins should not perform arca vigraha aradhana at the temples?

Best Regards

Rajaram V.

Rajaram Venkataramani <v_raja_ram > wrote:

SrI:

 

Daer Sri Venkataramani :

 

The AchAryAs have a different mission and can not openly

enter the dirty world of politics . They have to provide

guidance in a subtle way .This has nothing to do with lack of

courage as you indicate. They have to weigh in the sensitivities

and be sure whether they are helping or harming their cause .

 

The previous CM of TN decided to go after one of the Mataadhipathis

and we know the results . If a government wants to foist a case

and pursue the travel on a rotten road , there is precious little

one can do except thru the lengthy battle in the courts .

 

We have lived thru one such episode in the Fourties in the heyday of

so called "PeriyAr" out of whose ashes today's opportunists arose .These power hungry units have an agenda to position their own friends , cohorts and relatives to rob and plunder .

 

I do not see much point in asking the MatAdhipathys to get their

hands dirty in the process of dealing with these politicians , who

will not stop at anything .

 

This episode will also pass . The TN govt can declare on top of

the roofs as to what they want to impose . Not much will happen .Their Hindu Endowment Board is a laughing stock .

We have to sit this out and let these be sorted out at the level of

ciitzens and courts .

 

V.Sadagopan

 

P.S : These low minded politicians are not looking for PramANams

on Vedam and Aagamam to educate themselves to arrive at a rational

decision . They know exactly waht they want and are after their

goals of amassment of wealth thru their networks . They could not

care less as what happens at the temples beyond the appointment of

their cronies to pilfer .

 

*****************************************************************

Imput from Sri R.Venkataramani:

 

very rarely do religious leaders provide leadership from a spiritual perspective. they often lack the courage and knowledge - simple and plain. if any one can become archakas, why did they not initiate it? if any one cannot, why are they not opposing? instead of waiting for others to speak up for the cause, let us unite, learn the real facts based on sastras and fight to protect the tradition.

i live in chennai and ready for action on this. we have a group of youth who will unite to support this. any one interested in protecting veda dharma is free to call me on 9840940108 any time of the day.

best regards

rajaram v

**************************************************************

govindakrishnan alagar <alagar_g > wrote:

 

Dear Shrivaishnavites,

Fund collection would be needed for fighting the cause against the order of the Govt. ot Tamil Nadu not only abroad but also in India. Before that a forum of eminent and knowledgable persons (those who have knowledge in agamas, vedas etc.) has to be formed with the consent of leading aacharyas and Hindu religious matathipathis. I honestly hope that the step for forum would be initiated by our Aandavan ashram or srimatam or both. It should be made clear to the public by eminent men by articles, 'patti mantrams' that the peaceful fight is not by Brahmins against other sections of the society but the fight against an insensitive order of the Government which cares for a tuppence to the heritage and basic faiths of the Hindu religion. The Government is cleverly trying to paint this issue as a step to remove the so called monopoly of temple priest hood from Brahmins. This myth should be exploded by all peacful methods. Large segments of real devotees would oppose the

Government move. They only need a lead. A Government which proclaims no faith in God and worship (but will worship the statues of their leaders, garlend them and lit agarbathis!) and which follows the leader who called the believers of God as barbarians, ironically brings in legislation makig in roads into temple activity.

I do not agree that we do not have the strength. Will only is needed and the lead has to come from the aacharyas and eminent personalities. They cannot expect the common citizen to take up the cause unless they give the lead. I am yet to see or hear a single objection from any religous head or men of eminence. That is our misfortune.

A.Govindakrishnan