Clarification on Bhagavad Gita 9:23

[Guest guest]

Om Tat Sat

Namaste, I would like to hear clarification from learned members about

the usage of "anyadevatah yajante" in 9:23. Swami Dayananda translates

it as

 

"Even those devotees endowed with shraddha who worship the lord as

other also worship only me. Arjuna, (but) backed by ignorance."

 

I suspect some say it means only worship Krishna (or Vishnu). What is

the Advaita interpretation of this ? Understand Atman and there is no

need to worship ? Atman is not something external to you, so realize

your own Self ? 

 

thanks and regards,

Om Tat Sat

[Guest guest]

Shree mahadevadvaita, PraNAms.

 

As I understand:

 

There are four types of Bhaktaas - aartho, arthaarthii, jijnaasu and

jnaani.

 

The first two are lower type - loving the means rather than end.  Here

the end is not god but the some other desired entities based on raaga

and dwesha - gaining which they are happy or getting rid of that they

are happy - hence the end is not God but their love for God is only a

means for their desired end.  Hence they love the means to achieve the

end. Most of the people go to the temple with a big list. What they love

is not God but the fulfilment of their desires. Hence God is only a

means to achieve the ends they want. 

 

But, what they are seeking is happiness, which is ananda, which comes

only from limitlessness that is god.  However, here the love is love for

the objects rather than God although what they are seeking is lord only

(as happiness) but mistake it as happiness that is coming from objects.

Vidyaranya says - viShayaanande brahmAnandaH - the happiness that one

enjoys through sense enjoyments is happiness that comes associated with

the Lord.  Although they are going after (worshipping) sense objects

they are going after me.  However, they are ignorant that I am the real

source for happiness.  They are worshipping me only as means to achieve

the sense enjoyments; thus  their devotion is backed by the ignorance.

 

The next best bhaktaas are jinjnaasus.  They are going after me to

understand about my nature since here I am the end not the means.  All

the dvaita bhakti is essentially at this stage, even though dvaitins may

want think otherwise.

 

The best of all the four is jnaani where the identity of oneself with

the total self is recognized.  The bhakti for the Lord is translated as

the realization of the identity - since pure love has to terminate with

identity.  This is the ultimate bhakti since there is no more ego left

to have any separateness of him and me.  Hence, Krishna says among all

the four bhaktaas jnaani is the supreme, he loves me most, and I love

him most,  since one loves oneself the most.  Hence, advaita is the

result of bhakti where the muula avidya that I am separate from Him get

resolved in that knowledge.  Hence, this bhakti is backed by knowledge

unlike the others.

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

 

--- mahadevadvaita <mahadevadvaita > wrote:

 

> Om Tat Sat

> Namaste, I would like to hear clarification from learned members about

>

> the usage of "anyadevatah yajante" in 9:23. Swami Dayananda translates

>

> it as

>

> "Even those devotees endowed with shraddha who worship the lord as

> other also worship only me. Arjuna, (but) backed by ignorance."

>

> I suspect some say it means only worship Krishna (or Vishnu). What is

> the Advaita interpretation of this ? Understand Atman and there is no

> need to worship ? Atman is not something external to you, so realize

> your own Self ? 

>

> thanks and regards,

> Om Tat Sat

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin, kuntimaddi sadananda

<kuntimaddisada> wrote:

>

> Shree mahadevadvaita, PraNAms.

>

> As I understand:

>

> There are four types of Bhaktaas - aartho, arthaarthii, jijnaasu and

> jnaani.

 

Namaste Sada ji,

 

A very nice presentation of the position that accords well with the

overall purport of the Gita.  The questions raised by Sri

Mahadevadvaita are  also in keeping with the true Advaitic position.

There is a Smriti vaakyam (Aapastambha?):  'AtmalAbhAnna param

vidyate' meaning There is no greater gain than Self Realisation.

 

Pranams,

subbu

>

>

[Guest guest]

>"subrahmanian_v" <subrahmanian_v >

 

>There is a Smriti vaakyam (Aapastambha?): 'AtmalAbhAnna param

>vidyate' meaning There is no greater gain than Self Realisation.

>

>Pranams,

>subbu

 

Subbu - praNAms - Thanks. - 'Atma lAbhAt na param vidyate' - do you know

where this occurs. Do you have the full sloka? May be our friend Shree

Sunder can help.

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

 

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[Guest guest]

advaitin, kuntimaddi sadananda

 

> Hence, advaita is the

> result of bhakti where the muula avidya that I am separate from

Him get

> resolved in that knowledge.  Hence, this bhakti is backed by

knowledge

> unlike the others.

>

 

Namaste Sada-ji, This usage of "anyadevataha yajante" in Gita 9:23

reminded me of Brhadaryanka Upanishad 1-iv-10 : (portion quoted

below)

 

atha yo anyam devatam upaste, anyo' sau anyo' ham asmiti, na sa

veda; yatha pasur, evam sa devanam; yatha ha vai bahavah pasavo

manusyam bhunjyuh.

 

This is a very stunning and sweeping declaration in the Upanishad.

It almost amounts to saying there is no need for worship unless you

know/understand Atman. However, I think most Advaitins will say that

upasana is needed for antahakaran shuddhi.

 

regards,

Om Tat Sat

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Kuntimaddi Sadananda"

<k_sadananda> wrote:

>

>

>

> >"subrahmanian_v" <subrahmanian_v>

>

> >There is a Smriti vaakyam (Aapastambha?):  'AtmalAbhAnna param

> >vidyate' meaning There is no greater gain than Self Realisation.

> >

 

>

> Subbu - praNAms - Thanks. - 'Atma lAbhAt na param vidyate' - do

you know

> where this occurs.  Do you have the full sloka?

 

Namaste,

 

         Shankara's Complete Works lists this sutra under his

Bhashya on Apastamba Dharma Sutra (#2) Adhyatma Patala 'prathama

prashne aShTamaM paTalam '.

 

         Sureshvaracharya's Manasollasa has:

 

http://sanskrit.gde.to/doc_shiva/manasollasa.itx

 

aatmalaabhaatparo laabho naastiiti munayo viduH .

tallaabhaartha.n kaviH stauti svaatmaanaM parameshvaram.h .. 2..

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

The shloka 9.23 has a thought about the worship of 'other Gods' not

being the right thing. (*anya-devatA bhaktAH* and *avidhi-pUrvakaM*).

In order to understand it right one has to go further and do a

research-like analysis of shloka 9.27.  I am going to do exactly

this in this post.

 

Shloka #27:

yat karoshi yadashnAsi yajjuhoshi dadAsi yat /

yat tapasyasi kaunteya tat-kurushva mad-arpaNaM //

 

Whatever you do, whatever you consume, whatever you offer (into the

Fire) whatever you give (away) and whatever austerity you do, Oh

Arjuna, do that as a dedication to Me.

 

 

In my humble opinion this shloka seems to be the key shloka in the

entire bhakti yoga message of the Gita. Also this key shloka has the

same characteristic as 11.55, about which I have always been saying

(quoting Acharya Sankara himself) that it contains the entire

teaching of the Gita in one shloka.

 

By that commentary on 11.55 of Shankara himself, I contend that

there are exactly five teachings in the Gita:

1. Karma yoga (and the yajna attitude)

2. Reverence to the One Supreme at all times, in all places and from

all aspects.

3. Equanimity or Brahma-bhava

4. Total self-negating Surrender to the Infinite. and

5. Yoga-sAdhanA or Control of the senses to achieve the above.

 

Now take 9.23.

1. Whatever you do you offer it as a dedication to the Lord. This is

the yajna attitude that is the sine qua non of karma yoga.

 

2. Whatever you eat or experience offer it as a dedication to the

Lord. This means none of  our experiences is ours; it is all His.

Because He is the One Truth in us. This is the Bhakti yoga. In fact

it says more. It says 'I am not the Experiencer'. So nothing of the

mundane world can touch me.

 

3. Whatever you offer in the Fire do it as a dedication to the Lord.

This means He is the Ultimate goal. There is nothing as prime or as

important as He. Anything intended to be offered to other deities

has to be finally aimed at Him. Everything has to be directed to

Him. He is the Final Refuge. To Him we should surrender everything

including our very individuality.

 

4. Whatever you give away give it as a dedication to Him. In fact

nothing belongs to us. Everything is His. This means there is no

question of mine or yours. It is all His. This is the Equanimity

that Gita teaches as fundamental.  Everything is Brahman. There is

no duality anywhere. This is the Brahma-bhava. Brahma-bhava and

Equanimity are both two sides of the same coin. One does not go

without the other.

 

5. Whatever austerity you perform, perform it as a dedication to the

Lord. This is the yoga-sAdhana the right way. Because otherwise, one

would be aiming at a goal to reach. There is no goal to be reached

since our Self is the goal and it is already here. So the control of

the senses that one performs is again an act of dedication.

 

Once we get the above five concepts right, the meaning of *anya-

devatas* in 9.23 will sprout. Anything that is not a dedication to

the Supreme is against 9.27. So that is not right. That is only a

propitiation of the 'other Gods'. So all mundane pursuits will come

under this. So the *anya devatas* really means  any pursuit of the

non-self or any of its accessories like the pleasures of the flesh,

they are all only a propitiation of the Ultimate in the wrong way.

 

I am not sure whether I have explained or confused. But I shall just

stop here and await further questions.

 

PraNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote:

>

>

> Once we get the above five concepts right, the meaning of *anya-

> devatas* in 9.23 will sprout. Anything that is not a dedication to

> the Supreme is against 9.27. So that is not right. That is only a

> propitiation of the 'other Gods'. So all mundane pursuits will come

> under this. So the *anya devatas* really means  any pursuit of the

> non-self or any of its accessories like the pleasures of the flesh,

> they are all only a propitiation of the Ultimate in the wrong way.

>

 

Namaste,

 

       Some additional thoughts occurred to me while absorbing the

invaluable insights above.

 

       The force of the word 'anya' can be multiplied several-fold

when its opposite 'ananya' is also taken into consideration.

 

       ananya means 'not separate from oneself, or one's own Self'. If

we refer to all the phrases in the Gita where the word ananya is used,

we shall discover its special place in advaita.

 

ananyachetaaH satataM yo maa.n smarati nityashaH .

tasyaahaM sulabhaH paartha nityayuktasya yoginaH .. 8\-14..

 

purushhaH sa paraH paartha bhaktyaa labhyastvananyayaa .

yasyaantaHsthaani bhuutaani yena sarvamidaM tatam.h .. 8\-22..

 

mahaatmaanastu maaM paartha daiviiM prakR^itimaashritaaH .

bhajantyananyamanaso GYaatvaa bhuutaadimavyayam.h .. 9\-13..

 

ananyaashchintayanto maa.n ye janaaH paryupaasate .

teshhaa.n nityaabhiyuktaanaa.n yogakShemaM vahaamyaham.h .. 9\-22..

 

api chetsuduraachaaro bhajate maamananyabhaak.h .

saadhureva sa mantavyaH samyagvyavasito hi saH .. 9\-30..

 

bhaktyaa tvananyayaa shakya ahameva.nvidho.arjuna .

GYaatuM drashhTu.n cha tattvena praveshhTu.n cha parantapa .. 11\-54..

 

ye tu sarvaaNi karmaaNi mayi sa.nnyasya matparaH .

ananyenaiva yogena maa.n dhyaayanta upaasate .. 12\-6..

 

mayi chaananyayogena bhaktiravyabhichaariNii .

viviktadeshasevitvamaratirjanasa.nsadi .. 13\-11..

 

      Finally in:

 

yaanti devavrataa devaanpitR^Inyaanti pitR^ivrataaH .

bhuutaani yaanti bhuutejyaa yaanti madyaajino.api maam.h .. 9\-25..

 

Krishna indicates that anything worshipped as separate from the Supreme

Reality will result in attaining the corresponding result.

 

    As Shankara says in Vivekachudamani:

 

http://sanskrit.gde.to/doc_z_misc_shankara/viveknew.itx

 

........

.........

yasmaannaasti sataH paraM kimapi tat{}satyaM sa aatmaa svayaM

tasmaattattvamasi prashaan{}tamamalaM brahmaadvayaM yatparam.h .. 251..

 

"....Because there is nothing apart from Sat, that is the True, that

is itself the Atman. Therefore, That Thou Art, the Supreme, the

peaceful, the defectless, the non-dual Brahman".

 

     

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

[P.S. Please forgive me for keeping the message short by not including

the translations of every verse from the Gita.]

 

 

 

      

[Guest guest]

  H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy

 

advaitin, "Kuntimaddi Sadananda"

<k_sadananda> wrote:

>

>

>

> >"subrahmanian_v" <subrahmanian_v>

>

> >There is a Smriti vaakyam (Aapastambha?):  'AtmalAbhAnna param

> >vidyate' meaning There is no greater gain than Self Realisation.

> >

> >Pranams,

> >subbu

>

> Subbu - praNAms - Thanks. - 'Atma lAbhAt na param vidyate' - do you

know

> where this occurs.  Do you have the full sloka?  May be our friend

Shree

> Sunder can help.

>

> Hari OM!

> Sadananda

 

Dear Sri Sadananda,

     There is a ShlOka in the 17th chapter of Upadeshasahasri which

reads as follows:

          AtmalABAt parO nAnyO lABaH kaScana vidyatE |

          yadarthA vEdavAdASca smArtAScApi tu yAH kriyAH ||Ch.17-4

 

    With regards,

  Sreenivasa Murthy

 

>

> _______________

> Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from

McAfee®

> Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Prof ji, It is good to see your Gita knowledge and wisdom back

on the list. Your 5 point summary of Gita is excellent. You have

interpreted anyadevataha to mean mammon, sensual pleasures and other

pointless materialistic pursuits or pleasures. In 17:28 the Lord says

that anything done without shraddha becomes meaningless here or

hereafter. One reason I asked the question was that the Dvaita

contention is that 9:23 means only worship Krishna or Vishnu.

Personally, I worship Shivlinga but I consider Gita to a great gift of

wisdom to mankind. I consider the Shivlinga to be a symbol of the

infinity that is our own Self. For whatever reason, I am attracted

to "Om Namah Shivaya" and Shivlinga worship. I know that some

Advaitins say that in the pursuit of Brahm Vidya, there is no place

for God worship or rituals but I think most Advaitins perform some

kind of upasana. Any comments on this ?

 

regards,

Om Tat Sat

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "mahadevadvaita"

<mahadevadvaita> wrote:

>

> Namaste Prof ji,

In 17:28 the Lord says

> that anything done without shraddha becomes meaningless here or

> hereafter. One reason I asked the question was that the Dvaita

> contention is that 9:23 means only worship Krishna or Vishnu.

> Personally, I worship Shivlinga but I consider Gita to a great

gift of

> wisdom to mankind. I consider the Shivlinga to be a symbol of the

> infinity that is our own Self. For whatever reason, I am attracted

> to "Om Namah Shivaya" and Shivlinga worship. I know that some

> Advaitins say that in the pursuit of Brahm Vidya, there is no

place

> for God worship or rituals but I think most Advaitins perform some

> kind of upasana. Any comments on this ?

 

Namaste Mahadev-ji

 

Advaita does not preclude Saguna worship. Great advaitins like

Madhusudana Saraswati and Appayya Dikshidar did Saguna Puja

themselves and were strong advocates of specific ritualistic worship.

The very concept of Panchayatana puja has imbedded in it the

principle that worship of certain stones is itself an indication to

pass from worship of the concrete name and form to worship of the

attributeless in course of time.  So let us not have any inhibition

about being an advaitin and still prone to worship deities in the

form of pictures, vigrahas, or stones. Adi Shankara himself had

visited almost every temple and by praying in such temples,

sanctified them.

 

PraNAms to all advaitins

profvk

[Guest guest]

Our most respected Professor-ji observes :

 

(Advaita does not preclude Saguna worship. Great advaitins like

Madhusudana Saraswati and Appayya Dikshidar did Saguna Puja

themselves and were strong advocates of specific ritualistic

worship.))

 

True! Very TRUE ! Adi Shankara Bhagvadapada himself established

the 'Shanmatha ' ( six modes of Saguna worship) so much so he was

called Shanmatha Stapakaacharya. Through the saguna worship of the six

deities (SIVA,  VISHNU, SURYA, SURYA, GANAPATHI ) , our beloved

advaita acharya Sankara Bhagavatpada tried to establish the eternal

truth  that all the deities ( in whichever form and name we choose -

our ishta devatas)  we worship are but manifestations of one supreme

Self - ParaBrahman! ADI SHANKARA  also gave them a solid foundation

through his works like PRAPANCHASARA, which describe the  MANTRA,

TANTRA & YANTRA of these deities. .

 

All the  sixty four nayanmars and shaiva siddhantins like Appar,

TIRUJNANSAMBANDAR , TIRUVACHAKAR etc were all advaitins at heart but

outwardly they worshipped Lord shiva as their ishta nishta . Tukaram,

who  also realized the oneness of Brahman, worshipped his ishta devata

Sri Panduranga vittala!Who could be more advaitic than bahgwan sri

ramana ? he also worshipped the Lord of Arunachala hills, Sri

Arunachaleshwar. Our own beloved Thakore , a great addvaitin, was

never tired of doing TRI-KALA SANDHYA PUJA TO HIS ISHTA DEVI , MAA

BHAVATARINI. Sri Arunagiri nathar, a brahma jnani , was also a great

devotee of Lord SKANDA/KARTHIKEYA.

 

Sri Mahadevadvaita makes an  interesttng statement .

 

(One reason I asked the question was that the Dvaita

contention is that 9:23 means only worship Krishna or Vishnu.

Personally, I worship Shivlinga but I consider Gita to a great gift of

wisdom to mankind. I consider the Shivlinga to be a symbol of the

infinity that is our own Self. For whatever reason, I am attracted

to "Om Namah Shivaya" )

 

To this a staunch vaishnavite might say 'no problem '! May i recall a

sloka in this context ?

 

"Akashat patitam toyam sagaram prati gacchati, sarva deva namaskaram

Keshavam prati gacchati"

 

" Just as all the  water fallen from the sky goes to the sea,

salutations to all the gods reaches to the one Lord Vishnu ! "

 

and another verse goes

 

"Ruchinam vaichitryad rijukutil nana path jusham; nrinam

ekogamyastvamasi pyasamarnavmiti"

 

"Due to the differences in individual dispositions, people follow

different paths, but you are the only destination of all of them, just

as the sea is the destination of all the waters").

 

This ia  a vaishnava premise !

 

But, our beloved adi shankara bhagvadapada sings in Sivananda lahari

verse 4

 

Sahasram varthanthe jagathi vibhutha  kshudra phalada

Na manye swapne vaa thadanusaranam that krutha phalam

Hari brahmadeenamapi nikata bhaja masulabham

Chiram yache shambho shiva thava padombhoja

bhajanam                                         

 

  "Oh  Sambhu,  a  thousand  gods  exist  in  the  world, who  are 

the  bestowers  of  trifling    rewards.  Not  even in  my  dreams 

do  I  consider  following  them  nor  the benefits  conferred  by 

them.  Oh  Siva,  I  beg  always  to worship  your  lotus  feet, 

difficult  though  it  is  even  for Vishnu,  Brahma  and  (such) 

others,  who  have  obtained proximity  to  you. "

 

In this sloka, Adi Shankara is clearly indicating that worship of lord

shiva is the best form of upasana ! !

 

and a devi bhakta might argue Upasana of Devi is the best because she

is the one who takes you to the abode of Brahma jnana ! Remember that

famous story from the  Kena upanishads where Uma, the Goddess ,

revealed the truth to Indra, Agni, VARUNA ETC who could not find the

source of that Shining spirit ?

..

"Who is that spirit," Indra asked her, "whom we have been seeing

here?"

"That is Brahman, the Supreme Spirit," Uma . "It is all due

to the power of Brahman that you have had victory over the demons,

and have become great. Don't you know that?"

 

Kanchi Paramacharya says :

 

 

"Uma, the Divine Mother, is the personification of pranava (Om). She

is brightness in light and fragrance in flowers. She has the

illumination of a thousand suns and yet has the soothing coolness of

a thousand moons. Along with Isvara, she is the Paramatma-swaroopa

sung by the Vedas."

 

The point is in whatever form one worships , god/ess appears in that

form! All names and forms are mere instruments to reach the ultimate

Truth !

 

Aum Tat sat