Guest guest Posted January 4, 1999 Report Share Posted January 4, 1999 COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA) >[Text 1978735 from COM] > >> >> >> Firstly there should be a clear list in simple English of the "Not Allowed". >> This can act as a quick reference for the temple managers and others. > >That is an idea for a addendum or something to be derived from the standards >later. > I agree >> SALT licks must be vegetarian. As we know there are many mineral and 'salt' >> licks on the market that are not vegie. >> > >I personally did not know that. Good idea to put the adjective vegetaran >everywhere salt is mentioned I have made the change. > >> Section 3 - Shelter >> >> Permitted - "clean rest areas without bedding" > >How about clean wooden or rubber rest areas without bedding? Have made the change to: Clean rest areas with rubber bedding. > >> What about in winter time. Hard floors are cold and also very uncomfortable >> for the elderly and young. I have seen in many goshallas old cows with >> wounds on there legs and hips from sitting on hard , cold floors. This is in Shelter, recommended 5) All shelters should have clean floors with dry bedding to prevent problems such as hoof rot. >> >> Section 4 - feeding >> >> concentrates must be certified free of animal byproducts including fish meal >> and egg shells. must be vegan > >What if it had whey byproducts in them? don't know if they do, but It seems >that >dried milk or whey products should be acceptable. We have in not allowed no animal by-products. i would think whey by-products acceptable. Any other opinions? > >> >> >> Not allowed - to feed rotton vegetables and prasadam to the cows - must be >> fresh. >> Sounds reasonable. I have made the addition. > > > >> Training - it should be a rule that all cows are given names. This is a step >> towards being personal with them. > >Excellent suggestion for the recommended. Seems so obvious , but it is a fact >that when the herd at New Vrindaban got big, they stopped using names and >started >using numbers. I have made the addition. > >> >> >> TRAVELING PREACHING >> >> Reccomended:- >> 1. Daily cleaning of the animals. At least a good brushing. I have found >> this to be very good for the animals overall mental condition. They >> appreciate and learn to respect the handler much more. It instills >> confidence and that helps a lot when you're in a big crowd and there are >> fire crackers going off and bands playing ect. > >Good for recommended standard in milking also. > I have made the addition. >> 2. That the body of an expired padayatra bullock who has been engaged as a >> pujari - pulling the Lords rath - be placed in samadi. ie not "recycled" > >Scriptural reference for that? >> >> NOT ALLOWED. >> >> 1. Working or forcing a sick animal to travel or walk. >> sick meaning that the animal is noticably unwell, has temerature, not eating >> or is diseased. > >I think that is already coverd in not setting goals and forcing animals to met >them, but the specifics of temperature, etc could be added there. In the Recommeded: 4) The health, safety and general well-being of all animals in such programs takes priority over achieving inappropriate daily distance or preaching goals. > I have made the other additions. >> >> >> 2. Public abuse of ISKCON animals. If necessary a security guard should be >> hired to protect the animals from puplic abuse at shows or on Padayatra. > >How about, > >NOT ALLOWED > >Unattended access to cows by the public, giving opportunity for abuse I have made the addition. >> >> for example on Py India all the bullocks have brocken tails and some have >> burn marks from beedies. The public force them to stand up by twisting the >> tail and burning with beedies ect. This must not be allowed. Throwing of >> stones at bullocks and kicking them is also common. >> >> 3. Hire of oxen from karmis for travelling preaching shows. >> The animal is hired, used to pull the Lords rath and then returned to the >> owner and finally sent for slaughter. this is no way to repect a devotee. > >The argument used for use of blood milk is that the cow at least benefits from >the >milk being offered to the Lord. Would that apply here also? > Once again, if we have our programs together, it won't be necessary to borrow oxen. >> >> 4. Starting a travelling preaching program with bullocks when no suitable >> place is avaliable for there retirement or keeping. For example the bullocks >> from Py in Gugarat have been sold - I have been told. > >Good point. > Very good point. I have added this point. >> >> Section 14 - Local GBC responsiablity >> >> Reccommended- with regard to travelling preaching programs the GBC rep for >> that programm or area must visit the programm for at least five days four >> times a year or once every 3 months. > >I think if we include traveling programs in the phrase of visiting the >cowherders >and the cow facilities would cover this. I am afraid that asking the GBC to >spend >20 days a year with every traveling program will pretty much get the standards >voted down. > I am afraid so also. >> >> At least two visits, a proxy can make up for the other two but minimum five >> days inspection of the animals on the road and how they are being cared for >> and the publics reaction to them. > >Should definitely be included in required inspections . > >> >> >> You mentioned that they will have some list of questions. So we are >> interested to know what will apply to the Padayatra. The person should be >> speaking to to many devotees about the general treatment of the bullocks. Yes, after we complete the standards on this conference we need to discuss the form for the GBC to fill out. >> So these are some comments. We hope they will be of use to you. Overall we >> have had problems with the rough handling of the bullocks by devotees and >> the public. >> ys Ekadasi dasa. > >That is what we are trying to prevent. > Thank you very much for your thoughtful suggestions. Your servant, Chayadevi > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 1999 Report Share Posted January 5, 1999 Thank you for your reply to the few comments I made. I don't know how to use this E-mail very well so I am sending this as a comment. About Padayatra bullocks being respected as pujaris. I don't know any scriptual referance but when ever we have been in South India the tendency amounst the Sri Viasnavas is to respect them as pujaris because generallly only a pujari may carry the Lords pallaquin. So we respect them as pujaris - or we try to. Should there be a clause added that the grains storage must be kept locked. I remember a few cows getting into the grain storage and eating it all up. They died. About whey products in the cattle feed concentrates. Well are they going to eat milk products if we fed them seperatly. I don't think so. milk is for the calves who have the right bacteria in their stomach to turn it into chease. That bacteria leaves the body after some time. Thats what I understand. So it does not appear to be 'natural' for them. Should we try to keep our feeding standards "Vedic"? Some places seem to treat the cows as garbage bags. I've seen all sorts of kitchen waste and old gassy vegetables fed to them. Maybe some farms can keep a pig or two. In Poland they have thick rubber mats for the cows. thats very nice. Thats all. I'm happy with the good work done. ys. Ekadasi dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 1999 Report Share Posted January 5, 1999 COM: Ekadasi (das) LOK (New Delhi - IN) wrote: > [Text 1989042 from COM] > > Thank you for your reply to the few comments I made. I don't know how to use > this E-mail very well so I am sending this as a comment. > > About Padayatra bullocks being respected as pujaris. I don't know any > scriptual referance but when ever we have been in South India the tendency > amounst the Sri Viasnavas is to respect them as pujaris because generallly > only a pujari may carry the Lords pallaquin. So we respect them as pujaris - > or we try to. > I have no problem with that. The question I have is not how they are treated before death, but after. 12-15-76 Lecture "So this cobbler... Just like we are protecting cows. We cannot kill for the skin, but these asuras, they are killing thousands and thousands of cows for getting the skin, only for the skin. So if you are interested in the skin, if you are interested in the flesh, so at least wait for the time the animal will die. There is no doubt about it. So at least let him, let her die natural death. Why you should kill? You can take at that time the skin, the bone, the hoof. Whatever you like, you can take, the flesh." Personally , I don't care much one way or the other. If in a given part of India the body is respected especially after death, then certainly follow that custom. I just have never heard about it. The cows give milk that is given to the Deity also. > Should there be a clause added that the grains storage must be kept locked. > I remember a few cows getting into the grain storage and eating it all up. > They died. Maybe where concentrates are mentioned, it should say that the storage should be secured to prevent overeating by the cows. It is possible to secure something from the cows without actually locking it. > > > About whey products in the cattle feed concentrates. Well are they going to > eat milk products if we fed them seperatly. I don't think so. milk is for > the calves who have the right bacteria in their stomach to turn it into > chease. That bacteria leaves the body after some time. Thats what I > understand. So it does not appear to be 'natural' for them. Should we try to > keep our feeding standards "Vedic"? I seem to recall seeing full grown cows drinking milk if made available. Anybody else? Again, not something I feel strongly about, just for purposes of discussion. > Some places seem to treat the cows as garbage bags. I've seen all sorts of > kitchen waste and old gassy vegetables fed to them. Maybe some farms can > keep a pig or two. IF it is the primery feed, then it isn't good. If a little bit is fed as a small minority of the diet, then it isn't so bad. That is one reason we said all feeding to be under the direction of the primery cowherd, so it can be regulated. > > > In Poland they have thick rubber mats for the cows. thats very nice. > Thats all. I'm happy with the good work done. > > ys. > Ekadasi dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 1999 Report Share Posted January 7, 1999 >COM: Ekadasi (das) LOK (New Delhi - IN) wrote: > >> [Text 1989042 from COM] >> >> Thank you for your reply to the few comments I made. I don't know how to use >> this E-mail very well so I am sending this as a comment. >> >> About Padayatra bullocks being respected as pujaris. I don't know any >> scriptual referance but when ever we have been in South India the tendency >> amounst the Sri Viasnavas is to respect them as pujaris because generallly >> only a pujari may carry the Lords pallaquin. So we respect them as pujaris - >> or we try to. >> Madhava Gosh wrote: >I have no problem with that. The question I have is not how they are treated >before death, but after. > >12-15-76 Lecture > >"So this cobbler... Just like we are protecting cows. We cannot kill for the >skin, but these asuras, they are killing thousands and thousands of cows for >getting the skin, only for the skin. So if you are interested in the skin, if >you are interested in the flesh, so at least wait for the time the animal will >die. There is no doubt about it. So at least let him, let her die natural >death. >Why you should kill? You can take at that time the skin, the bone, the hoof. >Whatever you like, you can take, the flesh." > >Personally , I don't care much one way or the other. If in a given part of >India the body is respected especially after death, then certainly follow >that >custom. I just have never heard about it. The cows give milk that is given to >the Deity also. I have revised the section on Cow Remains to read: 4) Cow Remains a) Local government and customs, along with the relationship between the cow and the devotees should be respected as much as possible in dealing with the remains of a dead cow. b) After all reasonable efforts have been taken to maintain the soul in the body of the cow, when the soul has left the body of the cow, there is no bar to someone recycling the body after consulting with the primary cowherder. Your servant, Chayadevi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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