Guest guest Posted February 5, 1999 Report Share Posted February 5, 1999 COM: Trilokatma (das) BVS (Prague - CZ) wrote: > [Text 2071434 from COM] > > Dear devotees, > PAMHO. AGTSP. > > Last week comes to our temple in Prague (Czech Republic) two farmers, father > and his son. They got SP books and began to read them. Both started very > soon chant Hare Krishna and try to by vegetarian. They are owner of very big > farm (about 2.500 hectares) and they have about 200 cows and thousands of > chicken. Now they ask what to do with bulls who are not giving milk and what > to do with chicken. They began to understand our philosophy about cow > protection and they seriously looking for solution. They visit our temple > this week again and explained their plan for gradual transformation (during > 15-20 years). Because they ask for blessing from our side I was very careful > to advise them anything against our philosophy. In present point they sold > young bulls to other farms and chicken sold to butchery. It seems to me that > gradual transformation can by solution for them but not from our point of > view. > Does have anybody some experience with similar problem or any idea how to > solve it? > > your servant Trilokatma dasa Rupanuga: I've seen that these cattle that are raised for eating, they are not like dairy cows. Dairy cows are much cleaner. Beef cattle are very dirty animals. They have no clean habits. They are almost like pigs. Pusta Krsna: Still, they should be protected, though. They should be used for plowing. Prabhupada: No, if they are not cows, there is no need of protection. When gives milk, that is cow. Rupanuga: These animals are created by man actually. History... Pusta Krsna: But it would have been a bull. Prabhupada: Bull also required, because cows alone cannot give milk unless united with bull. Pusta Krsna: The philosophy now with the farmers is that if there's a bull born, generally they kill it. Prabhupada: That is the law in England. You cannot keep a bull. Hari-sauri: The only reason they keep a male animal is just for meat. Bullocks, one year old, and then they send them to the slaughterhouse. Prabhupada: Everywhere, in India, they require bulls and... Generally, they are not inclined to kill. So they are engaged in... Pusta Krsna: But otherwise, when Krsna says go-raksya, He means the female, the cow, giving milk. Rupanuga: Actually, in these beef animals, if... Prabhupada: Go means species, means both bull and cow, but generally go means cow. Hari-sauri: Of the two, the cow is the more important because it gives milk. Rupanuga: One thing is these beef cows, the female, they only produce enough milk for a little offspring. They have made it like that. You cannot get enough milk from them. They have little bags, only just for their own offspring. They have made it like that. Prabhupada: Manmade. Rupanuga: Yes, a manmade idea. >>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C. This is a really difficult situation. I hesitate to say anything, because it is one of those things that will get thrown back in your face, some ------ saying, just see, Gosh advocates sending cows to inevitable slaughter. So consider my remarks as meant to provoke thought, and not as some definitive program I see as desirable. So these farmers, I think need to do the needful as to current stocks, but breeding should stop immediately so no more are produced. To immediately switch to a cow protection mode with existing stocks will bankrupt these guys. When the beefers were bred, at that point the karma of the slaughter was set in motion. Let it play out. At that time these farmers were in a state of grace. There is enough of a hazy grey area here(beefers not being cows, as above) to allow them to be practical. But to bred more beefers, that they will be doing in full knowledge and the reaction will be stronger. They need to liquidate their stock (preferable not directly to the slaughter house) , and use the capital generated to get into some alternate crops or fund a trust for a small protected cow program. maybe trade beefers for a few dairy, then protect the dairy cows that would have been slaughtered anyway. In this way, some cows will be saved. Anyway, that is my opinion. I am sure others will have other opinions, but to just crucify these guys with some idealistic vision of letting these beefers live out a natural life on the existing land is so unviable it will never play out in reality anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 1999 Report Share Posted February 5, 1999 On 04 Feb 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > > Last week comes to our temple in Prague (Czech Republic) two farmers, father > > and his son. They got SP books and began to read them. They visit our temple > > this week again and explained their plan for gradual transformation (during > > 15-20 years). Because they ask for blessing from our side I was very careful > > to advise them anything against our philosophy. > > It seems to me that > > gradual transformation can by solution for them but not from our point of > > view. > > Does have anybody some experience with similar problem or any idea how to > > solve it? > > > > your servant Trilokatma dasa There is also a story in Prabhpada Nectar about how the devotees came to Prabhupada because a member of the temple board (who was also a big financial supporter) owned a grocery store in which meat was sold. The devotees didn't know if he should be removed from the board, or what. Basically, SP told them not to change things, to let the man continue rendering service to Krsna in whatever capacity he was able, and that gradually he would become purified. It seems the same principle would apply here.I might add that if the devotees involved really want to act on a brahminical platform, they should be able to tell these farmer *how* they can convert their land to other uses, even if it means they (the devotees) have to get some education to do so. This land is a potential resource for Krsna's service, so it would make sense for the devotees to involve themselves more deeply, rather than just give the farmers absolute directives, with no practical means for fulfilling them.Obviously, Krsna has sent these farmers (and their farm) to the devotees. It's such an extraodinary thing that beef farmers should take to Krsna consciousness that I can't see it any other way.Your servant,Tulasi-priya dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 1999 Report Share Posted February 5, 1999 On 03 Feb 1999, Trilokatma das wrote: > Dear devotees, > PAMHO. AGTSP. > > Last week comes to our temple in Prague (Czech Republic) two farmers, father and his son. They got SP books and began to read them. Both started very soon chant Hare Krishna and try to by vegetarian. They are owner of very big farm (about 2.500 hectares) Comment: Is that 2,500 ha. (6,177.5 acs.)? >and they have about 200 cows and thousands of chicken. Now they ask what to do with bulls who are not giving milk and what to do with chicken. They began to understand our philosophy about cow protection and they seriously looking for solution. They visit our temple this week again and explained their plan for gradual transformation (during 15-20 years). Because they ask for blessing from our side I was very careful to advise them anything against our philosophy. In present point they sold young bulls to other farms and chicken sold to butchery. It seems to me that gradual transformation can by solution for them but not from our point of view. Comment: If you could send their plan for transformation we could give you a better answer of how the transformation would be more compatible to our philosophy. Various practices which at first seem compatible to our philosophy gradually lead away from it and others that seem to be in opposition may not be. > Does have anybody some experience with similar problem or any idea how to solve it? > your servant Trilokatma dasa ys, Rohita dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 1999 Report Share Posted February 7, 1999 Dear prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP. Thank you for replay. It seems to me not so much similar cases was in the last. Probably we should start to think about it. y.s. Trilokatma dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 1999 Report Share Posted February 7, 1999 Dear Mataji, PAMHO. AGTSP. Thank you for answer. Yes, I see it like challenge from Krishna, so we would think and study more deeply about it. y.s. Trilokatma dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 1999 Report Share Posted February 7, 1999 On 7 Feb 1999, Trilokatma das wrote: > Dear Mataji, > PAMHO. AGTSP. > > Thank you for answer. Yes, I see it like challenge from Krishna, so we would > think and study more deeply about it. > > y.s. Trilokatma dasa Dear Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP. The devotees there must be especially empowered by Srila Prabhupada to be able to attract and convince people, who are engaged in such miserable activities as beef farming, to actually take up Krsna consciousness. Since it is such a difficult situation, we can pray to the Lord who lives in our hearts as Supersoul, and who manifests as our intelligence, to guide us to do His will. Please keep us informed about the situation so that if anyone is inspired with a good idea, it can be passed on to you. The only thing I can think of right now is to encourage those farmers to pray to the Lord themselves for inspiration, even while they go on with their usual business and while they are researching alternatives to their present circumstances. We can be confident He will will respond somehow. Your servant, Tulasi-priya dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 1999 Report Share Posted February 8, 1999 > The only thing I can think of right now is to encourage those farmers to > pray to the Lord themselves for inspiration, even while they go on with > their usual business and while they are researching alternatives to their > present circumstances. We can be confident He will respond somehow. Yes, I did like this. I will keep you informed how things is going on. y.s. Trilokatma dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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