Guest guest Posted January 30, 2000 Report Share Posted January 30, 2000 Dear Dvibhuja Prabhu: I would appreciate it if you could show me what you mean "there's no way by material calculations?" The figure of $2000/year/cow isn't enough? What if you had 500 cows and were pulling in $1,000,000/year as a result? Would it be enough? Or does a cow use more than $2,000/year? First of all, let's do some spiritual calculating. I read the Shrimad-Bhagavatam, the authority on all things. In it, Shrila Prabhupada explains cow protection. Cow protection is a central tenet of our religion, as we worship Govinda, the primeval lord, who resides in Goloka. If cow protection doesn't work, then what does? So I'm sure it does. If milk products are the only way to make a cow protection program successful, then how much do the milk products have to sell for? I personally believe that until we learn how to work with the ox, that cow protection program will just be a hobby and not a lifestyle. Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2000 Report Share Posted January 30, 2000 2000 a year wouldn't even run a small cow program. Obviously you have never managed a goshalla. As haven't mopst people on this planet so it is not a slight to you. It is just a fact that people have no idea what it takes to take care of Mother cow. It will never be economical by material calculations unless we get some break like selling the milk products for a very large price or something other that is not considered normal. However Krishna will help us if we continue to try our best to do the right thing by mother cow. I must say I don't appreciate when people act like cow protection is different than the rest of the temple program. In regards to the remarks to Mother Hare Krishna Prabhu saying the temple is nicely painted while the cows are suffering. Both have to come. The temple should be nicely painted. Not that we should criticize. It isn't easy to paint the temple. Quit crying about everyone else and so something to actually help build relationships. Not tear them down. Let this cow conference become positively oriented. Not taking license just because we take care of cows to criticize someone else. It is unbecoming and should not become fashionable to be unvaisnava using our dedication to cows as the license. I know this is referring to another letter on the conference, but it is going to the same souls, so that is just my two cents which is probably about whats its worth. YS Dvibhuja das WWW: Ram Prasad (Dasa) (?) <ramprasad (AT) com (DOT) org> COM: Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; Noma Petroff <npetroff (AT) Bowdoin (DOT) EDU>; niscala99 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com <niscala99 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> Saturday, January 29, 2000 8:00 AM GOPALitics >[Text 2970036 from COM] > >I must confess being a temple president once. I even belonged to the Temple >President's conference on COM. I don't know if I like the idea of placing >blame on the temple presidents for cash flow problems that may not have >originated with them--or that they may have been powerless to prevent. > >The heart of the matter is whether or not we can make it worth it for the >temple presidents to have cows. If cows are wealth, then why does one need >wealth to take care of cows? Cows are wealth, and so is land. > >What's the exact formula? Let's see some numbers on a spreadsheet. I started >one recently and could only get so far because I don't know all the numbers. I >had 4 tons of dung/year/cow = 8,000 lbs. of dung/year/cow. Radha Krishna told >me that the product of composting cow dung with refuse is seven times larger >than the amount of cow dung. So the total amount of compost per year is 56,000 >pounds, or roughly 2,000 25# bags of compost. > >Now we've got land and cows.If you can get $1/bag, wouldn't that be enough >($2000/year) to run a decent cow protection program? If 2/3 of that is burned >as fuel (also suggested by Radha Krishna), that would leave over 600 bags of >compost ($600), and fuel so that we don't have to a) cut our trees down, b) >support petroleum companies. > >Any of you simple cowherds know how to use a spreadsheet? How many factors >does this hinge on? > >1. Price of land/acre >2. Value of compost and/or selling price >3. Cost of labor (& how many cows per cowherd) >4. Cost of milk per gallon >5. Savings in transportation costs (carts), could include hiring the cart out >with low-wage workers. > >I guess the constants are amount of dung/year, amount of feed/year, medicine >costs, blankets, and barn construction) > >Jai Balarama! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2000 Report Share Posted January 30, 2000 > Dear Dvibhuja Prabhu: > > I would appreciate it if you could show me what you mean "there's no way > by material calculations?" The figure of $2000/year/cow isn't enough? What > if you had 500 cows and were pulling in $1,000,000/year as a result? Would > it be enough? Or does a cow use more than $2,000/year? > > First of all, let's do some spiritual calculating. I read the > Shrimad-Bhagavatam, the authority on all things. In it, Shrila Prabhupada > explains cow protection. Cow protection is a central tenet of our > religion, as we worship Govinda, the primeval lord, who resides in Goloka. > If cow protection doesn't work, then what does? So I'm sure it does. If > milk products are the only way to make a cow protection program > successful, then how much do the milk products have to sell for? I > personally believe that until we learn how to work with the ox, that cow > protection program will just be a hobby and not a lifestyle. > > Ram Here is my two bobs worth. The cows are the source of wealth in a society that values simple living and high thinking. If we are satisfied with those things that we ourselves, (in a small village setting) can produce, then the products of mother cow, are the most valuable. Ghee for frying all the other veggies, Butter to put on the chapaties, yoghurt to cure stomach upsets, make into delicious items to offer the Lord, and apply to sunburn, milk for yagna, to make all the other things, etc, etc. It is only when she is fully integrated into a daivi-varnasrama society, that mother cow really comes into her own. Ugrakarmic society can only be a cause of her destruction. So really we can have all success if we use everything in Krsnas service, through varnasrama. As Prabhupada says, as soon as we recognise that everything belongs to Krsna, and as soon as we only take what we need, and rely on Krsna to maintain us, then we can really be in a position to prosper, in spiritual wealth. YS Samba das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2000 Report Share Posted January 31, 2000 > The temple in priciple accept the price of 1 pound per litre and > will graduallky pay that amount over the coming years. They are currently > p[aying 0.60 pounds sterling per litre. > > ys syamasundara dasa > Bhaktivedanta Manor They are probably also providing land at no cost and some volunteer labor which subsidizes the price as well. Do I assume correctly? With some volunteer labor, some under priced labor, and no land, machinery, or building capitalization expenses, it costs about $1 US per day to maintain a cow in NV. That does not cover extraordinary veterinery expenses. Some capitalization expenses, realistic labor, we figure about $800 a year to maintain a cow. Which means roughly for every $10,000 in capitalization, you can maintain 1 cow. Cows are wealth in a Vedic style, no paper money economy, where the whole society is vegetarian. Then the playing field is level. Even in a meat eating society, where excess cows are slaughtered for money, more often then not, cows are wealth. But protecting cows within a slaughter culture is an anomaly. We have figured milk in the US would have to sell for about $10 a gallon to pay for lifetime protection. Hence the need for a subsidy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2000 Report Share Posted January 31, 2000 In my humble opinion, I think this is a very intelligent answer. Simple living and high thinking. YS Dvibhuja das COM: Samba (das) SDG (Mauritius) <Samba.SDG (AT) bbt (DOT) se> WWW: Ram Prasad (Dasa) (?) <ramprasad (AT) com (DOT) org>; COM: Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se> Sunday, January 30, 2000 7:54 AM Re: GOPALitics >[Text 2972297 from COM] > >> Dear Dvibhuja Prabhu: >> >> I would appreciate it if you could show me what you mean "there's no way >> by material calculations?" The figure of $2000/year/cow isn't enough? What >> if you had 500 cows and were pulling in $1,000,000/year as a result? Would >> it be enough? Or does a cow use more than $2,000/year? >> >> First of all, let's do some spiritual calculating. I read the >> Shrimad-Bhagavatam, the authority on all things. In it, Shrila Prabhupada >> explains cow protection. Cow protection is a central tenet of our >> religion, as we worship Govinda, the primeval lord, who resides in Goloka. >> If cow protection doesn't work, then what does? So I'm sure it does. If >> milk products are the only way to make a cow protection program >> successful, then how much do the milk products have to sell for? I >> personally believe that until we learn how to work with the ox, that cow >> protection program will just be a hobby and not a lifestyle. >> >> Ram > >Here is my two bobs worth. > >The cows are the source of wealth in a society that values simple living and >high thinking. If we are satisfied with those things that we ourselves, (in >a small village setting) can produce, then the products of mother cow, are >the most valuable. Ghee for frying all the other veggies, Butter to put on >the chapaties, yoghurt to cure stomach upsets, make into delicious items to >offer the Lord, and apply to sunburn, milk for yagna, to make all the other >things, etc, etc. > >It is only when she is fully integrated into a daivi-varnasrama society, >that mother cow really comes into her own. Ugrakarmic society can only be a >cause of her destruction. So really we can have all success if we use >everything in Krsnas service, through varnasrama. As Prabhupada says, as >soon as we recognise that everything belongs to Krsna, and as soon as we >only take what we need, and rely on Krsna to maintain us, then we can really >be in a position to prosper, in spiritual wealth. > >YS Samba das > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2000 Report Share Posted January 31, 2000 That remark about cow protection a hobby is a bit much, but anyway you are very right on with the point about utilizing the oxen. It is very important and I too really have that goal although it seems to be difficult to attain. I pray for your blessings and the blessings of all the Vaisnavas that we may one day be able to depend fully on the cows and oxen as Srila Prabhupada instructed us. YS Dvibhuja das WWW: Ram Prasad (Dasa) (?) <ramprasad (AT) com (DOT) org> COM: Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se> Saturday, January 29, 2000 8:00 PM Re: GOPALitics >[Text 2971097 from COM] > >Dear Dvibhuja Prabhu: > >I would appreciate it if you could show me what you mean "there's no way by >material calculations?" The figure of $2000/year/cow isn't enough? What if you >had 500 cows and were pulling in $1,000,000/year as a result? Would it be >enough? Or does a cow use more than $2,000/year? > >First of all, let's do some spiritual calculating. I read the >Shrimad-Bhagavatam, the authority on all things. In it, Shrila Prabhupada >explains cow protection. Cow protection is a central tenet of our religion, as >we worship Govinda, the primeval lord, who resides in Goloka. If cow >protection doesn't work, then what does? So I'm sure it does. If milk products >are the only way to make a cow protection program successful, then how much do >the milk products have to sell for? I personally believe that until we learn >how to work with the ox, that cow protection program will just be a hobby and >not a lifestyle. > >Ram > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2000 Report Share Posted January 31, 2000 Then that's what the temples must pay--in order to support cow protection. I know you have suggested this previously--when the price was calculated between $7 and $8 per gallon. Call it a cow tax or a dairy tax or a cowherd tax, but we must immediately start paying EXTRA for the care of the cow. Let us err on the side of excessive care for the cows. Ksatriyas tax and make sure that cow protection is going on (at least the pious ones). I already took my vow not to drink milk unless it was from protected cows, and so far have successfully upheld it. If such a tax were to be established, who would be entrusted (the trustee) for taking care of Krishna's cows? Obviously the devotees who are already doing it. ISCOWP comes to mind right away. Anyway--I know the GBC has IMPORTANT things to discuss every year in Mayapur such as the poisoning of Srila Prabhupada's body (ISKCON) by ritviks. So there must be other organizations who will take cow protection more seriously--then, maybe we can reform ISKCON. RPd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2000 Report Share Posted January 31, 2000 the figure does not reflect the cost of buildings neither the manpower cost of maintaining buildings. The figure does reflect the cost of labour estimated at 4 pounds sterling per hour (low wage), feeding, bedding, grains, repairs, veterinary and taking away the manure. ys syamsundara dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2000 Report Share Posted February 1, 2000 > > If such a tax were to be established, who would be entrusted (the trustee) for > taking care of Krishna's cows? Obviously the devotees who are already doing > it. ISCOWP comes to mind right away. I don't think we will see one Trust for every place, probably a lot of different Trusts. And individuals can set up their personal Trusts with cow's as beneficiaries and do it any way they want. Anyone with highly appreciated stocks, for example could use Charitable Remainder Trusts very effectively to manipulate assets and get some real tax benefits out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2000 Report Share Posted February 1, 2000 COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA) Re: Gopalitics > [Text 2976288 from COM] > > > > > Anyone with highly appreciated stocks, for example could use Charitable > Remainder Trusts very effectively to manipulate assets and get some real tax > benefits out of it. Can you refer (For the Resource Index for the Standards) to any resources on how to set up such trusts. If the devotees are interested perhaps they can get some more detailed information on what it takes to set up a trust. Of course a lawyer would be the final need, but it would be good to know what trusts are about before seeking a lawyer. Yrs,Chayadevi > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2000 Report Share Posted February 2, 2000 > > Can you refer (For the Resource Index for the Standards) to any resources on > how to set up such trusts. If the devotees are interested perhaps they can > get some more detailed information on what it takes to set up a trust. Of > course a lawyer would be the final need, but it would be good to know what > trusts are about before seeking a lawyer. > > Yrs,Chayadevi This is where we need the help. Really, it is more an accountant to set them up. Someone needs to do some definitive research on it, and it isn't going to be this dumb farmer. Either there is interest in it or not. I will share what I know with a sincere interested party, but I have thrown this out too many times already to waste anymore time on trolling with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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