shanti

[Guest guest]

dear niscala:

 

your analysis of the varnashram system, however astute, reminds me of the

words of Lord Chaitanya to Srila Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya (hopefully my memory

serves me correctly: "your interpretation makes what is natural difficult to

understand."

 

i do not know what varna i'm in, nor can i find my way to the grhastha ashram.

i'm capable of doing the work of the upper three classes, yet like a sudra

too. i find myself forced to do the work of every varna. i think high, but

life is not simple. perhaps it is because of a lack of social cooperation.

 

dear martin or dvibhuja:

 

one who controls (vegan) his mind, words, ANGER, tongue, belly, and genitals

can make disciples all over the world.

 

lack of krishna consciousness--chanting, sri krishna sankirtana, has been

replaced by so many activities including our discussions on COM. i don't want

to hear you chastising niscala. it hurts my ears, and since you jumped on me

about 10 texts back, i'll assume it's you that's releasing your frustration.

 

 

LAPD's motto: to protect and serve. Ksatriya's duty: to protect and serve and

collect taxes. do you believe in the Final Order? that the GBC is the ultimate

managing authority of ISKCON? I think that's the Final Order that's difficult

to swallow. i'm in no way a ritvik or a proponent of the poison theory, but

from what i've seen in ISKCON, i'd say someone's poisoning Srila Prabhupada's

body (ISKCON).

 

with a few exceptions, the congregational chanting of the holy names has

become just a murmur. controversy and mismanagement (confusion) reign. cows

are obsolete.

 

ENTER the brahmanas. Brahmanas who speak the truth will not condone the

behavior of neglectful ksatriyas. Ksatriyas must PROTECT the cows, the

brahmanas, the women, AND support the performance of SACRIFICE.

 

Now, the tricky part--what happens if the people don't want cow protection and

don't want to perform sacrifice? Perhaps they prefer ice cream, pizza, and

videos. This is like the senses urging the body to do something low. However,

because it is the desire of the people, the ksatriya, who is a servant of Lord

Hrishikesha, has to satisfy their senses. So, just as devotees satisfy their

senses by engaging them in Krishna consciousness, so must the K.C. ksatriya.

This is where the tax comes in. The ksatriya, with his eye on protecting the

cows/women/brahmanas/children (go ISKCON!), makes sure that people are

satisfied and money is flowing in the right direction.

 

Vaishyas make a living by cow protection and farming, right? Depending on the

fertile earth, the glorious sun, and the graceful rain, the farmer realizes

that everything that we have is a gift and a miracle. The city vaishya, on the

other hand, milks the cash cows so that he doesn't have to depend on the grace

of Krishna. 3rd item of surrender: Krishna is our maintainer.

 

Sudras. God bless 'em. As Prabhupada said, "I am a 5th class man." I am hoping

to be a human in my next life. All glories to the sudras who carry the burden

of the world on their shoulders. Underpaid, underappreciated, and

under-cared-for, but helpful to the extreme. I know a devotee who helped me so

much with my hair-brained schemes. I would always start a project, get in over

my head, and need to be rescued. This devotee always did it happily, and I

appreciate his association very much.

 

Anyway, now I'm writing a textbook--not my intention. I do like to write

though. If only I could think of something to say...

 

How bout this: there is no laughter in the word "slaughterhouse."

 

Oh, and one more thing. I'd like to accept some of the blame for ISKCON's

shortcomings. If I were a better devotee, I'm sure that Krishna would have

arranged it so that the spiritual path didn't have any rocks. I know that my

impurity is reflected everywhere, and I am sorry for my shortcomings.

 

That is why I feel very strongly about cow protection. Because I am in this

world, then my karma must not be too good. So how to make my karma better so

that the world must improve? Protect cows and trees. Uh oh, I used the word

"protect." Does that mean I'm a ksatriya?

 

As all of you know, I am nothing. I am lucky to even know what a Vaishnava is.

Fearing my own karma, I am clinging to the feet of the demons in the Western

Hemisphere. I know that they exploit the earth, sucking her blood and dividing

it up, etc., but what am I to do? Do I dare let go and fall to the floor in

India, penniless, like a beggar there? Everyone seems dependent on Western

money...money seems to control our society...uh oh.

 

Ram

[Guest guest]

Here is the final point from this sector on the issue of criticizing the

leadership as if we are appointed to do so on the cow conference.

First in reference to controlling anger. His Divine Grace once said that

when a devotee hears devotees being insulted he becomes a little fiery. So

I listen to this conference and I get tired of Niscala's repeated criticism

of our leaders. I worship those leaders. I don't even know Niscala, but I

do know many of the GBC and have for over 25 years of this lifetime. So

naturally I am not inclined to hear Niscala, Mother Hare Krishna or anyone

else just say things like these leaders etc. Many of my friends are

initiiates of "these leaders" including my wife and some of my children. So

you want to talk like you are some great cow protectorate and then slam

these exalted Vaisnavas. I cannot tolerate it. Maybe I should just get off

the conference then you exalted philosphers that do so much for mother cow

will be free to blashpheme and suffer your own reaction. I can't sit back

and partake in a conference where this mentality exists. This is an ISKCON

project. So all of the participants are trying to praise ISKCON. Not tear

it down.

If there is some need of introspective anaylsis of our Krishna

consciousness, then I am sure Krishna will make an arrangement whereby any

issue can be addressed. I just don't think just anyone can say just

anything without reaction. So that is my complaint to everyone on this

conference. Balabadhra Prabhu included. This is a formal complaint about

this open offensive mood towards devotees.

Maybe the problem like any other open forum, there is no way to restrict

who comes on, but still the statements like our corrupt leaders,sannyassis

living luxuriously while the cows live in squallor , the GBCS are the fault

of the cow problems etc. All these general slanderous statements constitute

unnaceptable types of communication amongst ISKCON devotees. We are the

leaders if we surrender. We are the solution. We can't just keep blaming

these great souls who have dedicated their lives to spreading Srila

Prabhupada' movement. Just because they are in a position that we can find

a certain group willing to back us in our attack against them, doesn't make

it acceptable.

I love Mother Cow and will allways serve her by the mercy of Guru and

Gouranga, but will not sit back a listen to anything I am connected with

however weak my connection may be, slander our most beloved Vaisnavas who

have dedicated their lives to the propogation of the holy name.

 

Vancha Kalpa

 

In the service of mother cow

Dvibhuja das

 

WWW: Ram Prasad (Dasa) (?) <ramprasad (AT) com (DOT) org>

COM: Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se>;

niscala99 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com <niscala99 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>

Tuesday, February 01, 2000 12:55 AM

shanti

 

 

>[Text 2976903 from COM]

>

>dear niscala:

>

>your analysis of the varnashram system, however astute, reminds me of the

>words of Lord Chaitanya to Srila Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya (hopefully my

memory

>serves me correctly: "your interpretation makes what is natural difficult

to

>understand."

>

>i do not know what varna i'm in, nor can i find my way to the grhastha

ashram.

>i'm capable of doing the work of the upper three classes, yet like a sudra

>too. i find myself forced to do the work of every varna. i think high, but

>life is not simple. perhaps it is because of a lack of social cooperation.

>

>dear martin or dvibhuja:

>

>one who controls (vegan) his mind, words, ANGER, tongue, belly, and

genitals

>can make disciples all over the world.

>

>lack of krishna consciousness--chanting, sri krishna sankirtana, has been

>replaced by so many activities including our discussions on COM. i don't

want

>to hear you chastising niscala. it hurts my ears, and since you jumped on

me

>about 10 texts back, i'll assume it's you that's releasing your

frustration.

>

>

>LAPD's motto: to protect and serve. Ksatriya's duty: to protect and serve

and

>collect taxes. do you believe in the Final Order? that the GBC is the

ultimate

>managing authority of ISKCON? I think that's the Final Order that's

difficult

>to swallow. i'm in no way a ritvik or a proponent of the poison theory, but

>from what i've seen in ISKCON, i'd say someone's poisoning Srila

Prabhupada's

>body (ISKCON).

>

>with a few exceptions, the congregational chanting of the holy names has

>become just a murmur. controversy and mismanagement (confusion) reign. cows

>are obsolete.

>

>ENTER the brahmanas. Brahmanas who speak the truth will not condone the

>behavior of neglectful ksatriyas. Ksatriyas must PROTECT the cows, the

>brahmanas, the women, AND support the performance of SACRIFICE.

>

>Now, the tricky part--what happens if the people don't want cow protection

and

>don't want to perform sacrifice? Perhaps they prefer ice cream, pizza, and

>videos. This is like the senses urging the body to do something low.

However,

>because it is the desire of the people, the ksatriya, who is a servant of

Lord

>Hrishikesha, has to satisfy their senses. So, just as devotees satisfy

their

>senses by engaging them in Krishna consciousness, so must the K.C.

ksatriya.

>This is where the tax comes in. The ksatriya, with his eye on protecting

the

>cows/women/brahmanas/children (go ISKCON!), makes sure that people are

>satisfied and money is flowing in the right direction.

>

>Vaishyas make a living by cow protection and farming, right? Depending on

the

>fertile earth, the glorious sun, and the graceful rain, the farmer realizes

>that everything that we have is a gift and a miracle. The city vaishya, on

the

>other hand, milks the cash cows so that he doesn't have to depend on the

grace

>of Krishna. 3rd item of surrender: Krishna is our maintainer.

>

>Sudras. God bless 'em. As Prabhupada said, "I am a 5th class man." I am

hoping

>to be a human in my next life. All glories to the sudras who carry the

burden

>of the world on their shoulders. Underpaid, underappreciated, and

>under-cared-for, but helpful to the extreme. I know a devotee who helped me

so

>much with my hair-brained schemes. I would always start a project, get in

over

>my head, and need to be rescued. This devotee always did it happily, and I

>appreciate his association very much.

>

>Anyway, now I'm writing a textbook--not my intention. I do like to write

>though. If only I could think of something to say...

>

>How bout this: there is no laughter in the word "slaughterhouse."

>

>Oh, and one more thing. I'd like to accept some of the blame for ISKCON's

>shortcomings. If I were a better devotee, I'm sure that Krishna would have

>arranged it so that the spiritual path didn't have any rocks. I know that

my

>impurity is reflected everywhere, and I am sorry for my shortcomings.

>

>That is why I feel very strongly about cow protection. Because I am in this

>world, then my karma must not be too good. So how to make my karma better

so

>that the world must improve? Protect cows and trees. Uh oh, I used the word

>"protect." Does that mean I'm a ksatriya?

>

>As all of you know, I am nothing. I am lucky to even know what a Vaishnava

is.

>Fearing my own karma, I am clinging to the feet of the demons in the

Western

>Hemisphere. I know that they exploit the earth, sucking her blood and

dividing

>it up, etc., but what am I to do? Do I dare let go and fall to the floor in

>India, penniless, like a beggar there? Everyone seems dependent on Western

>money...money seems to control our society...uh oh.

>

>Ram

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ram Prasad,

I did not mean to confuse you and I realize now as at the time of writing, I

was trying to cram way too much into a short space, without too much

explanation. If there is anything you would like me to explain more clearly,

please let me know, or if its the whole essay, then please let me know, as I

can rewrite it.

I am also in a mixture of varnas, study and cow protection, but as its all

in the service of the Lord, what's the problem? You have to see where lies

your strength, your convictions, and your propensity, or in other words your

talents, and work from there and try to please Krsna, by perfecting it.

Then, enthusiasm will be natural, and so much more can be accomplished.

Srila Prabhupada: There seems to be some symptom of missing the point. The

point is to find some service that is very much satisfying to the devotee,

and then naturally he will be very enthusiastic..."

(anyone got folio for exact quote?)

Thats the point what I was trying to make, that and learning from our past

mistakes. That's it in a nutshell.

 

ys, niscala

 

 

 

>"WWW: Ram Prasad (Dasa) (?)" <ramprasad (AT) com (DOT) org>

>ramprasad (AT) com (DOT) org, Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se

>"COM: Cow (Protection and related issues)" <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se>,

>niscala99 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com

>shanti

>Tue, 1 Feb 00 03:32 -0500

>

>[Text 2976903 from COM]

>

>dear niscala:

>

>your analysis of the varnashram system, however astute, reminds me of the

>words of Lord Chaitanya to Srila Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya (hopefully my

>memory

>serves me correctly: "your interpretation makes what is natural difficult

>to

>understand."

>

>i do not know what varna i'm in, nor can i find my way to the grhastha

>ashram.

>i'm capable of doing the work of the upper three classes, yet like a sudra

>too. i find myself forced to do the work of every varna. i think high, but

>life is not simple. perhaps it is because of a lack of social cooperation.

>

>dear martin or dvibhuja:

>

>one who controls (vegan) his mind, words, ANGER, tongue, belly, and

>genitals

>can make disciples all over the world.

>

>lack of krishna consciousness--chanting, sri krishna sankirtana, has been

>replaced by so many activities including our discussions on COM. i don't

>want

>to hear you chastising niscala. it hurts my ears, and since you jumped on

>me

>about 10 texts back, i'll assume it's you that's releasing your

>frustration.

>

>

>LAPD's motto: to protect and serve. Ksatriya's duty: to protect and serve

>and

>collect taxes. do you believe in the Final Order? that the GBC is the

>ultimate

>managing authority of ISKCON? I think that's the Final Order that's

>difficult

>to swallow. i'm in no way a ritvik or a proponent of the poison theory, but

>from what i've seen in ISKCON, i'd say someone's poisoning Srila

>Prabhupada's

>body (ISKCON).

>

>with a few exceptions, the congregational chanting of the holy names has

>become just a murmur. controversy and mismanagement (confusion) reign. cows

>are obsolete.

>

>ENTER the brahmanas. Brahmanas who speak the truth will not condone the

>behavior of neglectful ksatriyas. Ksatriyas must PROTECT the cows, the

>brahmanas, the women, AND support the performance of SACRIFICE.

>

>Now, the tricky part--what happens if the people don't want cow protection

>and

>don't want to perform sacrifice? Perhaps they prefer ice cream, pizza, and

>videos. This is like the senses urging the body to do something low.

>However,

>because it is the desire of the people, the ksatriya, who is a servant of

>Lord

>Hrishikesha, has to satisfy their senses. So, just as devotees satisfy

>their

>senses by engaging them in Krishna consciousness, so must the K.C.

>ksatriya.

>This is where the tax comes in. The ksatriya, with his eye on protecting

>the

>cows/women/brahmanas/children (go ISKCON!), makes sure that people are

>satisfied and money is flowing in the right direction.

>

>Vaishyas make a living by cow protection and farming, right? Depending on

>the

>fertile earth, the glorious sun, and the graceful rain, the farmer realizes

>that everything that we have is a gift and a miracle. The city vaishya, on

>the

>other hand, milks the cash cows so that he doesn't have to depend on the

>grace

>of Krishna. 3rd item of surrender: Krishna is our maintainer.

>

>Sudras. God bless 'em. As Prabhupada said, "I am a 5th class man." I am

>hoping

>to be a human in my next life. All glories to the sudras who carry the

>burden

>of the world on their shoulders. Underpaid, underappreciated, and

>under-cared-for, but helpful to the extreme. I know a devotee who helped me

>so

>much with my hair-brained schemes. I would always start a project, get in

>over

>my head, and need to be rescued. This devotee always did it happily, and I

>appreciate his association very much.

>

>Anyway, now I'm writing a textbook--not my intention. I do like to write

>though. If only I could think of something to say...

>

>How bout this: there is no laughter in the word "slaughterhouse."

>

>Oh, and one more thing. I'd like to accept some of the blame for ISKCON's

>shortcomings. If I were a better devotee, I'm sure that Krishna would have

>arranged it so that the spiritual path didn't have any rocks. I know that

>my

>impurity is reflected everywhere, and I am sorry for my shortcomings.

>

>That is why I feel very strongly about cow protection. Because I am in this

>world, then my karma must not be too good. So how to make my karma better

>so

>that the world must improve? Protect cows and trees. Uh oh, I used the word

>"protect." Does that mean I'm a ksatriya?

>

>As all of you know, I am nothing. I am lucky to even know what a Vaishnava

>is.

>Fearing my own karma, I am clinging to the feet of the demons in the

>Western

>Hemisphere. I know that they exploit the earth, sucking her blood and

>dividing

>it up, etc., but what am I to do? Do I dare let go and fall to the floor in

>India, penniless, like a beggar there? Everyone seems dependent on Western

>money...money seems to control our society...uh oh.

>

>Ram

>

 

____

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com