Guest guest Posted February 16, 2000 Report Share Posted February 16, 2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="x-user-defined" - COM: Prahladananda Swami <Prahladananda.Swami (AT) bbt (DOT) se> Re: Sale of New Vraja Mandala? > [Text 3001406 from COM] > > > > This seems to be the situation on many other ISKCON farms. We feel there > > are other options. Recently, we have been discussing on the COW conference > > the option of leasing land to householders. Basically we were discussing > > the terms of such a lease. We feel it is possible to protect ISKCON, the > > devotees, and the cows with a properly drawn up contract. > > What would be some of the general and details points which would be > contained in such a contract? > We have not finalized anything yet. But here are some ideas of how it could possibly be done. The first text is by Syamasundara and the second by Madhava Gosh on the cow conference. We are thinking this now would be a good time to seriously engage in this discussion on the cow conference to see what more we can come up with. Your servant, Balabhadra das [Text 2826485 from COM] Dear Prabhus, Balabhadra Prabhu suggested I submit something just to get the ball roling on land reform. Here we go. Please give your comments and ideas. Madhava Ghosh, Rohita, Hare krishna dd, etc etc 1. Any devotee who has agricultural experience, or can demonstrate his ability to grow crops can lease ISKCON land. 2. All land must be fully utilised. 3.Any land not being used for agriculture or cow protection can be reclaimed by the land holder with 6 months notice. The tenant must submit a plan of land use to the land holder management and the minister of agriculture and cow protection if they disagree with the decision. They must be able to use the land within 6 months of notice of reclamation. 4.Any leased land can be passed down to children or dependants as long as the ISKCON rules governing agriculture are maintained. 5. Land is leased dependant on agricultural and cow protection practice and not on sadhana requirements 6. Land is leased at the rate of 10% of produce, or financial equivalent, as chosen by lease holder. This figure will apply for 3 years after which it can be negotiated in consulatation with the lease holder, the land holder and the ministery of agriculture and cow protection. 7. The maximum lease rate will not exceed 25% of produce. 8. All land will be farmed using oxen. No machinery can be used which replaces the oxen. 9. Oxen should be kept by the tenant 10. Oxen can be loaned/rented from the local goshala if available 11. All land farmed according to the following principles: No manufactured fertilizers/blood based fertilisers No pesticides used No herbicdes used 12. Working the land should be no less than 75% of the lease holders livelihood 13. Housing can be/should be loaned to the lease holder for the duration of the term of the land being used. 14. Excess land not farmed by oxen can be farmed using tractors, as long as there is always sufficient land kept available for use of new ox farmers. 15. Tractor land should be rented at the same rate as that found locally, renewable on a yearly/fixed period basis ys syamasundara dasa Bhaktivedanta Manor Madhava Gosh wrote: > [Text 2826485 from COM] > > Dear Prabhus, > Balabhadra Prabhu suggested I submit something just to get the ball roling > on land reform. Here we go. Please give your comments and ideas. Madhava > Ghosh, Rohita, Hare krishna dd, etc etc I am making comments here on the fly, Also, I am not implying Syamasundara was completely off just because I make a lot of comments. He clearly stated he throw something out, walked teh point, just to get something going. > > > 1. Any devotee who has agricultural experience, or can demonstrate his > ability to grow crops can lease ISKCON land. The definition of devotee could create problems here. For instance, we all know devotees who think if you don't go to mangala arotik every day, you aren't a devotee. Then you could get into the staunch devotee but he is a rittvik, whatever. Agricultural experience these days in the West means primarily agribusiness. Any initiated devotee (?????) with agricultural experience or having gone through an agricultural apprenticeship, who will grow crops using small scale low impact methods.... > > > 2. All land must be fully utilised. > Well, I can look at forest land and see it as fully utilized if selective timbering is going on, someone else may see it and say it isn't fully utilized if it isn't cleared and growing crops. I have a lawn around my house, someone may say that it should be garden and is not fully utilized as a lawn. Pasture versus confinement and intensive cropping . When they did the homesteading out West in America, each homesteader got 160 acres. They had 5 years to build a house and have 5 acres under cultivation. In West Virginia, in order to qualify for agricultural status on your land for favorable real estate tax status(saves me a lot of money)., you have to produce $1000 worth of crops a year. Produce for self consumption, firewood, etc all counts towards it. That $1000 figure hasn't been adjusted for inflation for quite some time. Even yesterday, I was working on a terrace to have ready to garden next spring, expanding my operation. the first couple of years on the land, full utilization may be unrealistic. The first year I planted perennials and trees, and am now able to expand as those are more established. But I have chunks of ground that aren't fenced, aren't planted, and aren't forest. I have eventual plans, but who knows when I get to it. "All land" would mean 1000 sq feet out of 2 acres and I'm under utilising. > > 3.Any land not being used for agriculture or cow protection can be reclaimed > by the land holder with 6 months notice. The tenant must submit a plan of > land use to the land holder management and the minister of agriculture and > cow protection if they disagree with the decision. They must be able to use > the land within 6 months of notice of reclamation. > Suppose as a brahmacary, spmeone shared a straight razor with an HCV carrier and now has Hepatitis C. The best treatment currently available is one year of interferon/ribaviran which has serious side effects, meaning for a year he can't work. 6 months isn't even one whole cycle. > > 4.Any leased land can be passed down to children or dependants as long as > the ISKCON rules governing agriculture are maintained. Lease is assignable to family, I'd need more definition on dependents. > > > 5. Land is leased dependant on agricultural and cow protection practice and > not on sadhana requirements > > 6. Land is leased at the rate of 10% of produce, or financial equivalent, as > chosen by lease holder. This figure will apply for 3 years after which it > can be negotiated in consulatation with the lease holder, the land holder > and the ministery of agriculture and cow protection. > That is scary, but you address it in the next point I guess. This letting someone on for reduced amount early so they can get established is in general a good idea. > > 7. The maximum lease rate will not exceed 25% of produce. In West Virginia, for established fruit orchards, the rate is 5%. Also, it needs to be clearly stated what the trustee of the land trust is going to do in exchange for the 25%. That would include at minimum paying the land taxes. What about if the vaisya is extremely successful in finding some niche market, and comes under income tax pressure. Will the income tax be paid out of the 25%? In that ideal Vedic culture, that 25% included all taxes, which as mere islands in a larger society, we will still be liable for. What about fire insurance on the house? > 8. All land will be farmed using oxen. No machinery can be used which > replaces the oxen. > Little harsh, cuts me right out. The barn on my place was caved in when I got it. Although I would like to replace it, the money doesn't exist. so to get oxen, first I need to fix the barn. If you make an emphasis on oxen being used, then the land would minimum need to come equipped to have oxen, which means adequate pasturage and a barn. BArn building and new fencing are capital expenditures that would have to be in place prior to taking possession of the land if oxen is a requirement. What if someone has a need for a 1/2 acre for self feeding, and a 1/2 acre for cash crop/bartering. To require oxen useage would make it unrealistic for such a person. If a teamster was available for hire, then it may more realistically be specificed that the oxen need to be hired in preference to a tractor. Or you could make some prohibition on tractor ownership, or some adjusting schedule , say for the first 5 years not required to use oxen. I appreciate the principle behind requiring oxen, but if we put the bar too high, no one will be able to get over it. > > 9. Oxen should be kept by the tenant > > 10. Oxen can be loaned/rented from the local goshala if available How about hiring teamsters who specilize in keeping oxen? > > > 11. All land farmed according to the following principles: > No manufactured fertilizers/blood based fertilisers If the local municipality composts leaves and yard debris and sells it, would I be unable to buy and use that? Would that be considered manufactured? > > No pesticides used Rotonone is an organic insecticide. Would that be prohibited? > > No herbicdes used > > 12. Working the land should be no less than 75% of the lease holders > livelihood > Cuts me out. Although the majority of my time is spent on the land, it is a small minority of my income. I really am thinking this is too unrealistic. > > 13. Housing can be/should be loaned to the lease holder for the duration of > the term of the land being used. > This is really crucial. If having to move on the land, housing has to be built first, it really cuts into the first few years energy. If the 25% includes housing or not is a major issue. > > 14. Excess land not farmed by oxen can be farmed using tractors, as long as > there is always sufficient land kept available for use of new ox farmers. > I assume you are refering here to the remainder of land not leased. > > 15. Tractor land should be rented at the same rate as that found locally, > renewable on a yearly/fixed period basis > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Visit us on the WEB at : http://www.iscowp.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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