Sale of New Vraja Mandala?

[Guest guest]

-

COM: Prahladananda Swami <Prahladananda.Swami (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

Bir Krishna Goswami <70324.1511 (AT) compuserve (DOT) com>; COM: Radha Krsna (das)

ACBSP GB (Great Britain) <Radha.Krsna.ACBSP.GB (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: ISCOWP

(Balabhadra Dasa & Chaya Dasi - USA) <ISCOWP (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

Cc: COM: Madhu Sevita (das) ACBSP (GBC) (I) <Madhu.Sevita.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se>;

COM: Syamasundara (das) (Bhaktivedanta Manor - UK) <Syamasundara (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:56 AM

Re: Sale of New Vraja Mandala?

 

<Thank you for the comments on the discussion. It seems from the

discussion that practically to get devotees to work the land one would

practically have to be fairly liberal in leasing the land. Then the other

problem is supervising who is given the land and how much they should give

in return.

 

In a country like Spain there have been certain problems like:

 

1. Few devotees have any real interest in farming.

 

2. There are a number of devotees on the farm who have little interest in

Krsna consciousness.

 

3. Honesty in the case of a number of devotees is questionable.

 

4. The devotees who would have the ability to supervise the situation are

also rare.

 

5. The criteria for who can get the land, how they should use it, and what

they should give in return seems very complicated.

 

Given the above, selling the land and using it for some smaller

project would seem more straight forward and perhaps less entangling.

 

Hope all is well.

 

Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada,

Prahladananda Swami>

 

 

 

Dear Prahladananda Swami, 2/19/00

 

Please accept my humble obeisences. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Thank you for your reply of 2/16/00.

<1. Few devotees have any real interest in farming.>

 

This is a result of lack of research, education, and training. The economic

base which a farm property can provide to householder families and the movement

is unlimited. The supplying of preaching programs such as Food for Life, city

temple bhoga, restaurants, etc. and pilgrimage to the farm from city devotees

and guests is a possible wonderful service and means of economics. If these

programs were in place this Ministry feels there would be a strong interest in

farming by qualified devotees.

 

<2. There are a number of devotees on the farm who have little interest in

Krsna consciousness.>

 

Could you please clarify.

 

<3. Honesty in the case of a number of devotees is questionable.>

 

This seems to be a problem worldwide throughout the movement on all levels.

This movement is based on purifying the consciousness from that of a

materialistic I me and mine way of thinking to a Krsna Conscious way of

thinking.

 

<4. The devotees who would have the ability to supervise the situation are

also rare.>

 

This is also a matter of training or lack thereof.

 

<5. The criteria for who can get the land, how they should use it, and what

they should give in return seems very complicated.>

 

By the devotees putting their collective intelligence together we are sure a

comprehensive plan could be put together which would satisfy all parties

involved. This plan will also take into consideration time place and

circumstance for each part of the world. This will not only benefit the Spain

Farm but all farms world-wide.

 

<Given the above, selling the land and using it for some smaller

project would seem more straight forward and perhaps less entangling>

 

Easy way out? What would Srila Prabhupada say?

 

Since we have initiated this

discussion with your good self and Madhu Sevita prabhu the only answer from

management has been from your good self. You stated previously that you

were not the GBC for this farm. We contacted you on the recommendation of

Bir Krsna Goswami. He told us that you are the Regional GBC Chairman for

this area and that you do spend time in Spain and that you do answer your

mail promptly. We are pleased to find it true that you do answer your mail

promptly and thoughtfully. As of this writing we (The ISKCON Ministry of Cow

Protection and Agriculture) have still not heard from Madhu Sevita prabhu

concerning the matter of selling ISKCON Vraja Mandala in Spain. The

Ministry has not been given any reporting on this farm or any other farm

under the jurisdiction of Madhu Sevita prabhu, with the exception of a brief

report from Radhadesh in Belgium. These reports are to be made 4 times a

year. The Ministry has sent out report forms several times and the report

forms as well as THE MINIMUM COW PROTECTION STANDARDS which are ISKCON LAW

507 can also be obtained from our web site www.iscowp.com

 

A copy of all of our dialogue are also sent to Madhu Sevita prabhu as he is

also included in the list of addresses of our correspondence, but no

response.

 

There is also a problem in the fact that 2 of the 3 Land Trustees for this

Property are the 2 co GBC for this property. I have spoken with Bir Krsna

Maharaja concerning this and he also agreed that this was a conflict of

interest issue and that at least 1 of the Land Trustees be changed. In my

humble opinion on all properties in ISKCON the current GBC should not be

include as Land Trustees for properties under there GBC jurisdiction. This

will eliminate the potential accusation of interlocking directors.

 

In the selling of any of Srila Prabhupada's assets, whether it be a city

temple or a rural farm property, there must be extensive research and

reporting to the appropriate departments, committees, ministries,and

ultimately the full body of the GBC showing that all options have been

exhausted and the best thing to do is to sell. At that point a detailed

report needs to be submitted as to how the proceeds from the sale will be

used responsible to further the preaching efforts of Srila Prabhupada's

House. Maybe you remember the selling of the New York temple in Manhattan.

Srila Prabhupada always wanted a temple in Manhattan and then when it was a

reality it was sold. New York has never regained its preaching momentum.

The Deities and devotees placed in small preaching centers only to fall

apart and now a barely populated temple in Brooklyn. I have been informed

of a sale of a farm in South Africa where the proceeds were sent to the city

temple and the cows terrible placed. We shouldn't repeat our past mistakes.

 

In the case of selling a farm property with cows/oxen it is an absolute must

that the animals will be placed into a secure situation for the duration of

their natural lives. Any situation other than this is a breach of ISKCON Law

507. Please refer to the Land Base points of the following standard. Also In

this standard it is forbidden to not consult with this Ministry in regards to

selling farm property and using the proceeds for projects other than cows and

agriculture.

 

SECTION 3 MANAGEMENT STANDARDS

 

XIII RESPONSIBILITY OF LOCAL COMMUNITY

Recommended

1) Housing and use of ISKCON land contracted to devotees who are seriously

committed to protecting cows and working the land.

2) Land Base

Cow programs should be increasing the land base available to cow herding,

not decreasing.

a) Lands may be sold or exchanged only if there is an offsetting advantage

and an increase to the overall program.

b) New land acquired to be given, leased, sold at fair market value to those

who seriously committed to protecting cows and working the land. Any income

generated from such transferred land should be used to benefit the cow

protection programs.

c) The determination of land sales in regard to what is best for the cows

should be made by the cows' primary cowherd.

 

Permitted

2) Land Base

Lands may be put into private hands if there is a means easily monitored and

managed by which the land will continue to be used for cow protection, i.e.

retention of grazing rights, leasing agreements, or the establishment of a

fund dedicated to obtaining new land.

 

Not Allowed**********

1) Land Base

*****a) Selling lands for the sake of generating cash flow to deal with

non-capital expenditures. This is strictly forbidden except in emergency

situations and then only after approval by the Minister of Cow Protection

and Agriculture and the approval of the GBC.*******

b) Selling land currently used by cows that decreases the over all land base

available to the cows.

 

Selling this land without providing equal land for the cows and equal

provisions for the cows is equal to cow abuse. In such cases the following

(please refer to the part of Standard XIV inserted below) by ISKCON Law 507 is

to be carried out. Once again, the GBC involved has taken no interest to follow

this Law by his lack of communication with this Ministry. The fact that there

are no GBC Cow Report forms sent to this Ministry from him,neither a Monitor

appointed to fulfill the duty of reporting, and no communication about the sale

of this Farm shows a disregard for following ISKCON Law 507.

 

 

XIV LOCAL GBC RESPONSIBILITY

Recommended

2) Investigation of Abuses

When a GBC receives reports of cow abuse in his/her locale, the complaint

must be investigated by the GBC and if found true, the situation must be

corrected by consultation with local Farm Council and the Ministry.

3) Follow-up by Investigation Team.

Where no action has been initiated after one week following investigation or

if the Ministry deems the action insufficient, the Ministry will appoint an

investigation team to create a report specifying actions needed to correct

the situation.

4) ISKCON's Ministry of Justice Involvement.

If corrections are not initiated within one month following the initial

abuse report, the problem will be referred to ISKCON's Ministry of Justice

for further action to protect the cows.

 

I am looking forward to communication from you and receiving the information I

requested.

 

Your servant,

Balabhadra das

ISKCON Minister of Cow Protection and Agriculture

[Guest guest]

Dear Balabhadra Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP!

 

> There is also a problem in the fact that 2 of the 3 Land Trustees for this

> Property are the 2 co GBC for this property. I have spoken with Bir

> Krsna Maharaja concerning this and he also agreed that this was a conflict

> of interest issue and that at least 1 of the Land Trustees be changed. In

> my humble opinion on all properties in ISKCON the current GBC should not

> be include as Land Trustees for properties under there GBC jurisdiction.

> This will eliminate the potential accusation of interlocking directors.

 

There is some misunderstanding on your part here. Any proposal for sale must

come from the local management and not the co-GBC's, thus it is not

inappropriate for the co-GBC's to be trustees. In addition, it must always

be the case that at least one of the trustees is not involved in the local

situation even remotely, and the trustees cannot act without a unanimous

vote, thus the single outside trustee can block any transaction.

 

I do not know what you mean by "interlocking directors" unless you are

referring to the same matter I answered above. If you meant something else,

please advise.

 

> In the selling of any of Srila Prabhupada's assets, whether it be a city

> temple or a rural farm property, there must be extensive research and

> reporting to the appropriate departments, committees, ministries,and

> ultimately the full body of the GBC showing that all options have been

> exhausted and the best thing to do is to sell. At that point a detailed

> report needs to be submitted as to how the proceeds from the sale will be

> used responsible to further the preaching efforts of Srila Prabhupada's

> House.

 

This is clearly stated in the GBC laws.

 

Hoping you are well.

 

Your servant, Bhaktarupa Das

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 20 Feb 2000, iscowp wrote:

 

> -

> COM: Prahladananda Swami <Prahladananda.Swami (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

>

> <Thank you for the comments on the discussion. It seems from the

> discussion that practically to get devotees to work the land one would

> practically have to be fairly liberal in leasing the land. Then the other

> problem is supervising who is given the land and how much they should give

> in return.

>

> In a country like Spain there have been certain problems like:

>

> 1. Few devotees have any real interest in farming.

 

>

> 2. There are a number of devotees on the farm who have little interest in

> Krsna consciousness.

>

> 3. Honesty in the case of a number of devotees is questionable.

>

> 4. The devotees who would have the ability to supervise the situation are

> also rare.

>

> 5. The criteria for who can get the land, how they should use it, and what

> they should give in return seems very complicated.

>

> Given the above, selling the land and using it for some smaller

> project would seem more straight forward and perhaps less entangling.

>

> Hope all is well.

>

> Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada,

> Prahladananda Swami>

 

 

Dear Prahladananda Maharaja,

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Unfortunately, I don't have the time I would like to spend responding to

your text, but it does concern me greatly.

 

(1)You cite as a central argument for selling Vraja Mandala the situation

that few devotees seem interest in farming; the devotees that are there

seem to be of questionable character; and there is a lack of competent

leadership for developing a farm community.

 

My response: I'm not sure how late in the game you became involved as

Vraja Mandala's GBC, but it seems to me that all these problems look to be

the results of cumulative, long-term neglect of the community. Whether

you are personally to blame for that I could not say, and it may not even

be important.

 

But, I think that it would be productive for the GBC to review a situation

like this -- which is probably quite common in Prabhupada's farm

communities around the world -- and ask itself how it got to be in such a

fix?

 

CHARACTER OF DEVOTEES

 

I know that in some places, farm communities are sometimes used as a

"garbage can" for devotees who cannot come up to standard in city temples.

If Vraja Mandala has been used like that, then we can hardly be surprized

that all the devotees who were "thrown away" there have turned out to be

of less than ideal character.

 

So is this a problem: Do you feel that the Vraja Mandala devotees are of

poor character because that is where all the "problem cases" from other

temples were sent?

 

Conversely, sometimes the needs of country living present challenges and

make demands on time which make it impossible to maintain the type of

sadhana expected in a city temple, where there are fewer practical

demands. Certainly Srila Prabhupada addresses the kinds of adjustments

which can be made in several of his conversations in the Prabhupada

Varnasrama book.

 

So, is is perhaps a problem that the devotees here are being measured

against standards which are not appropriate in a rural community.

 

 

ENTHUSIASM FOR FARMING

 

You say that it does not appear that devotees are enthusiastic for

farming.

 

I am strongly inclined to agree with the assessment of the Minister of

Agriculture, that this is generally a symptom of insufficient instruction.

 

Who is interested in distributing books. Absolutely no one is interested

in book distribution on their own -- BUT, when they recieve instruction on

how valuable it is and when they hear accounts of how ecstatic it is, many

people will become devotees and wish to try it.

 

So, it's not up to us to just sit down and wait for devotees who are

interested in farming to show up on our doorstep -- they will never come,

because this is the urban age, and people like that do not exist.

 

Rather, it is up to us to generate the enthusiasm. As Srila Prabhupada

tolds the devotees in Mauritius: "By your training power, they will be

attracted."

 

It is training power that will attract devotees to farming. And where

does that training initiate? It initiates with the brahmanas -- at least

it is supposed to initiate with the brahmanas.

 

And there are two subjects that the brahmanas should be training the

devotees in:

 

1. They should be training devotees in Srila Prabhupada's varnasrama

mission -- not just the "farm" devotees, but all the devotees. Do the

devotees in your temples hold weekly classes to study the Prabhupada

Varnasrama book? If not, then it is guaranteed that you will never have

sufficient devotees who are interested in farming -- because they will

have no idea how Prabhupada thought that farming and cow protection would

help them advance spiritually. They will have no idea that Srila

Prabhupada thought that cow protection was essential to advance in

spiritual life.

 

2. They need to be trained in how to carry out the practical tasks of

rural life. Again refer to Srila Prabhupada's instructions to the

Mauritius devotees: "By your training power, they will be attracted." If

you are not providing a regular training program in rural skills, it is

guaranteed that no one will be attracted to work on a farm. Only if you

offer inspiring training will you be able to kindle the enthusiasm of

devotees to develop rural projects.

 

RURAL LEADERSHIP

 

If you have a problem of competent rural leadership, it means that no one

has ever tried to train ksatriyas who would take pleasure in providing the

leadership to see a farm community flourish.

 

Again, it starts with the same problem. These devotees have never studied

Srila Prabhupada's instructions on varnasrama and rural community

development.

 

We say that by contemplating the objects of the senses, one becomes

attached. That can be a positive thing as well as a negative thing. If

we do not systematically contemplate Srila Prabhupada's instuctions on

rural living, then we will never become attached to it.

 

If our leaders are not studying Srila Prabhupada's instructions on Rural

community development, then certainly they cannot become attached to takig

up that kind of service. There can be no surprise about this.

 

INSUFFICIENT ADMINISTRATIVE DIRECTION

 

So, it appears to me that the whole problem comes from a distinct lack of

administrative direction. I would strongly suspect that the Vraja Mandala

commuity was much neglected by the brahminical leaders of the zone -- or

that if they did go there that they were so far out of touch with Srila

Prabhupada's instructios on rural community development that they

presented a message that was antithetical or simply irrelevant to the

members of the community

 

************************

 

SO NOW WHAT CAN WE DO?

 

This brings me to question 2:

 

Are there cows and oxen at New Vraja Mandala? If so, what will become of

them if the farm is sold?

 

How many animals are there? What are their names? Where could they go?

Who would take care of them?

 

And of course, the other question that comes to mind was: Did the GBC

fulfill its legal responsibilities in this case?

 

That is: Did the GBC ever fufill its duties under ISKCON Law 507? Did

the GBC visit the farm every 3 months? Did the GBC inspect the cows'

facilities every 3 months? Did the GBC have a private meeting with the

cowherds every 3 months to see how well standards were being maintained,

to hear the concerns of the cowherd and offer encouragement and help? did

the GBC then file a report every 3 months with the Ministry of Cow

Protection and Agriculture?

 

All this is provided for in ISKCON Law 507.

 

Perhaps I am mistaken, but as far as I understand, no GBC ever fulfilled

any of these responsibilities.

 

So, for the past year, there was no encouragement or help for the cowherd.

And there was no sign from the GBC that there was any problem -- since not

one report was filed.

 

Now -- suddenly -- out of the blue, the Minister of Cow Protection and

Agriculture gets notice that the farm is about to be sold -- not from the

GBC, but from some non-official devotee who is simply passing along what

he has heard.

 

This system of meetings and quarterly reports is designed precisely to

help keep this type of crisis from evolving -- but the GBC never bothered

to follow the prescribed method of dealing with a farm community.

 

Now there are problems.

 

I do not see any easy way out of this particular predicament.

 

The position of the GBC is like that of a boy who has not done a big

homework project assigned to him over vacation. Tomorrow is school.

Either he will have to scramble and pull the situation together as well as

he can, and resolve never to let himself slide into so much ignorance

again -- or he can simply blow off the whole thing and not do the work at

all. But then he will have to face a heavy reprimand from his teacher.

He'll be shamed in front of his peers. And he'll have to undergo whatever

austerities his parents require.

 

But, there is no easy way out of the situation.

 

The same way with this situation. After having allowed the situation to

degenerate to such a degree by various means of negligence, there will be

no easy solution to the situation.

 

I can only hope that whatever you do will minimize the discomfort to the

cows.

 

************************

 

My last thoughts are that I wish you could understand that Krsna has

tricked you.

 

You certainly did not want to pass ISKCON Law 507, the Minimum Cow

Protection Standards. This is just one more gigantic bureaucratic hassle

for you. But Krsna tricked you into passing it.

 

So, now it is your duty to Srila Prabhupada to carry out this law. You

don't want to have any thing to do with this kind of business.

 

You would prefer to fulfill your obligations for cow protection by making

some donation to some temple -- maybe Vrndavana. You would prefer that to

be how you do your part for cow protection.

 

But Krsna does not want your money. He wants your energy. He wants you

to really get involved in this. He wants you to meet with those cowherds

face-to-face. Yes, He wants you to get involved in all the sticky

problems of their life. It's not going to be at all neat. It's not going

to be at all theoretical. He wants you to have a headache -- for His

sake, and for Srila Prabhupada's sake.

 

If you want to do this right, it's not going to be enough to wave your

hands to the farm devotees and the cows and say, "Remember, you're not

this body." No. You're going to have to role up your sleeves and try to

turn this whole situation around. It's going to be a lot of hard work. A

lot of phone calls, a lot of meetings, a lot of arguments.

 

But, if you could only understand -- it's not because Krsna is mean, it's

not because you are being punished for something -- even if you have been

somewhat neglectful.

 

It's because Krsna loves you -- and He's felt some love from you. So,

He's trying to pull you toward Him. He's trying to pull everyone who sits

on the GBC. Law 507 is not just a bit hassle. If you will let yourself

do the work it takes to fulfill it -- you are going to find the

opportunity to realize Krsna in a way you have never thought of. Krsna's

trying to make you go all the way.

 

So, are you going to quit now? Are you going to say, "I give up. I'm

selling the farm. I'm giving all the cows to a life member in Germany (or

France or Belgium). I don't care a fig about this crazy law. I give up."

 

Are you going to give up? Are you going to jump ship? But you just don't

realize how close you are to the next great phase of your devotional life.

You just won't know what you are missing.

 

So what can I say? I hope you will somehow buck up, come back to life,

put some energy in this. So many answers for ISKCON lie in trying to

fulfill the standard of this law. What a hassle you say? Krsna has

deliberately made it a hassle -- at least for now. But if you do it, then

what: Just like poison in the beginning -- you know that part is right,

trying to put a farm community like this back together IS just like

poison, not the least because of all the scepticism you will meet

initially.

 

But then what? You know the rest, "Just like poison in the beginning, and

-- Just like nectar in the end." So that's the promise that Krsna is

holding out for you. I hope that you will take it. I have a feeling not

too many will -- but I hope you will. Be an inspiration for your

Godbrothers and for the rest of the devotees. Do this for Krsna. Be a

hero for the cows.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

[Guest guest]

I lived in Nueva Brajamandala in the mid Eighties for a short time, and was

in charge of the carpenteria (carpentry workshop).

 

That place is such a shining, wonderful asset to Srila Prabhupadas movement

and it would be such a terrible shame to loose it. About two years ago when

my planning service at Mayapur project was prematurely wrapped up due to the

funding crunch, I decided to try to dedicate myself to Prabhupadas

varnasrama instructions (with encouragement from my Gurumaharaja), and wrote

to the devotees at New Vrajamandala to find out if I could come there to

assist in the development of varnasrama.

 

I had some correspondence with devotees there, but this then dried up, and

as there appeared to be no definate interest I looked elsewhere. Eventualy I

came to Mauritius, and now we have land here.

 

Nueva Vrajamandala has so much potential! It was not long ago that (I heard)

they managed to stop a slaghterhouse from being opened next door! Such a

victory, and now this!

 

I was there during the last of the (then) 'ruling acarya's' roving 'vyasa

puja' extravaganzas, and I remember well listening most painfully (it was

painful as it was obvious that he was not at all favoured) to one lone

devotee (Prabhupadas disciple from the U.S., was it Dravinaksa prabhu? He

later ran the restaurant in Vrindavan for a while) who was bold enough to

stand up to his power addled Godbrother (who had not a word to say for farm

community), and read from Srila Prabhupadas books on the importance and

significance of farm communities. Silence followed his 'offering', and that

'leader' looked most displeased. That bold (and probabaly very frustrated)

devotee left the farm soon after. I wonder what could have developed there

if he had been encouraged?

 

Hare Krsna Dasi is right (and of course she is only repeating Srila

Prabhupadas words). TRAINING is what is missing, and our ISKCON Brahmins

should be given the resources and facilities to first learn, and then train

others. I am now attempting this (learning the simple life of farming) using

whatever resources are at my disposal, but it is high time we all took Srila

Prabhupadas instructions, as found in the newly published book, to heart.

 

Maybe the Brahmins dont want to do this, if so then it is up to the leaders

in charge to preach to them. Priyavrata Maharaja did not want to be the

ruler, but it was only when the supreme 'leader' (in this creation), Lord

Brahma, PREACHED to him that he agreed.

 

Surrender is not easy, but without it how far will we get? THERE IS NO DOUBT

THAT SRILA PRABHUPADA WANTED VARNASRAMA TO BE REVIVED BY ISKCON. New

Vrajamandala would make such a wonderful site for a European Varnasrama

College, if the will was there to make it so.

 

PLEASE! OH LEADERS OF ISKCON TAKE THESE VARNASRAMA INSTRUCTIONS TO HEART AND

HELP TO SAVE OUR MOVEMENT!

 

Your servant

Samba das

[Guest guest]

Camp: Mayapur, India

 

Dear Hare Krsna dd,

Please accept my greetings and the blessings of Lord Krsna. All

glories to Srila Prabhupada!

 

Thank you for your concern and advice the spirit and essence I

certainly agree with.

 

> My response: I'm not sure how late in the game you became involved as

> Vraja Mandala's GBC, but it seems to me that all these problems look to be

> the results of cumulative, long-term neglect of the community. Whether

> you are personally to blame for that I could not say, and it may not even

> be important.

 

I am not the GBC for Spain. I am one of the property trustees. The

authority of the property trustees is very limited.

 

Spain has seen the fall down of the following gurus who were

initiating within Spain the last 14 years:

 

1. Bhagavan prabhu

2. Jagadisha prabhu

3. Somaka prabhu

4. Sri Padambhuja prabhu (Bhakti Abhaya Carana)

 

With the recent falldown of Harikesa prabhu, the respect for

authorities is at all time low. The two GBCs up until this Mayapur GBC

meetings were Giriraja Maharaja and Madhu Sevita prabhu. Giriraja Maharaja

has retired from the GBC because of health reasons and Madhu Sevita prabhu

was only visited Spain a few times and for only short periods of time.

 

Madhu Sevita and myself will probably visit Spain as the property

trustees in April and see what the situation is. I will not forget the cow,

but much of the situation there is beyond my personal control.

 

Hope all is well.

 

Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada,

Prahladananda Swami

[Guest guest]

> Hope all is well.

 

All is well, real well, swell in fact. Thanks.

 

Hope we can protect some cows,

 

Ram Prasad