Let them come to our farms

[Guest guest]

"COM: Krsnendu (das) BCS (New Varsana - NZ)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2505738 from COM]

>

> I recently (within the last couple of months) read a text in which devotees

> were telling Srila Prabhupada that they now tell people to stay at their

> homes and practise Krishna consciousness. Srila Prabhupada replied that they

> shouldn't stay at home but should come to our farms.

>

> I think it was on one of these conferences.

>

> Can someone please send me the quote and the reference.

>

> ys,

> Krsnendu das

 

Hare Krsna dasi comments:

 

You are refering to a very important varnasrama conversation that Srila

Prabhupada had on the train to Allahabad on 11 January 1977:

 

**************************

 

Prabhupada: Sraddha-sabde visvasa sudrdha niscaya. This is basic platform, that

"What Krsna says, that is truth." Krsna bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya: "If

I follow Krsna, then my business is complete." This is intelligence. Now... We

have come to the open field. How it is nice. And so long we were passing

through

that congested areas--hellish, simply hellish. And now here is open space. How

it is nice.

Hari-sauri: To enter into a city is so imposing on your consciousness.

Prabhupada: Up to that point, simply rubbish, all papers thrown here and there.

People are living in... Now see here, how it is open and pleasing. Organize

this

farm project. Farm. (background talking)

 

Hari-sauri: He's just saying that in the West one requires a great deal of

capital. To start a farm, to get the land, you need a lot of money because land

is very expensive. And also we have to use modern farming techniques because we

have so few men to run the farms.

Prabhupada: No, you show example. People will do automatically. When the people

find it is very nice, they will take.

 

Hari-sauri: Should we try to make an effort to have our householders go and

live

on the farms, a special effort? If it's ready to do that?

Prabhupada: Why householders? Everyone. Hare Krsna. (japa)

Ramesvara: In America there is a very big emphasis on getting people to join us

by moving into our temples. The temple presidents are very eager to get as many

people to move in as possible, but in the long run most people cannot come up

to

the standard.

Prabhupada: Therefore I am [advocating]... Farms.

 

Ramesvara: So they have to be encouraged to have a little bit of Krsna

consciousness in their own home, make their home a temple.

Prabhupada: No, let them go to the farm, New Vrindaban.

Ramesvara: Many people... Most people in the world, they are grhamedhis, and

they cannot give it up so easily.

Prabhupada: "No, you remain... Come here with your wife, children. You remain

grhamedhi."

 

Jagadisa: New Vrindaban is very austere. If we build little bungalows with

modern convenience...

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Jagadisa: There has to be some modern convenience.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Then we shall do that.

Ramesvara: But for many people who live in the cities, they have their jobs

already. They don't want to give it up.

Prabhupada: (train slows down) What is the nonsense? No, there is a station? No

station.

Jagadisa: Why does this train keep stopping? (train stops)

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Hare Krsna. Jaya.

Jagadisa: Why does the train keep stopping?

Prabhupada: Who is this gentleman?

Hari-sauri: Pradyumna?

Prabhupada: Oh, Pradyumna.

Ramesvara: Say, in America, most people live in the cities, and they already

have their job, and they are set in their ways.

 

Prabhupada: But you said that there is unemployment also.

Ramesvara: To a certain extent. But there are still 250,000,000 people. So most

of them...

Prabhupada: So those who are unemployed, let them come to us. We shall give

them

employment.

Ramesvara: Yes. But for the mass population...

Prabhupada: Well, gradually you will increase and...

Ramesvara: We have to give them something that they can do in their home.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

 

Ramesvara: Because it is impractical to think that they will give up everything

and move into the temple.

Prabhupada: No, those who are unemployed, let them come. We shall give them

employment.

Jagadisa: On the farm.

Prabhupada: Yes.

 

Ramesvara: For those who are unemployed, that's attractive.

Jagadisa: But for those who are already employed...

Ramesvara: But most people have jobs.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Ramesvara: Many people already have their jobs and their families.

Prabhupada: All right, let them not come, but those who are unemployed, let

them

come.

Ramesvara: But what...? For those people who already have their jobs, instead

of...

Prabhupada: That job... They will be very soon jobless. Don't worry. (laughs)

They will come. They will be obliged to come. Now they have got job, but as the

days are advancing in Kali-yuga, they'll be jobless.

 

**************************************

 

I have added the Apocalypse conference to this letter because of Srila

Prabhupada's ominous reference about forthcoming unemployment. Naturally one

cannot help but think of the likelihood of increased unemployment all around

the

world because of Y2K computer problems. If Korean banks or shipping companies

crash, for example, how will American workers who depend on Korean-made

components be able to continue manufacturing different products? What if they

lose their jobs? Naturally, this is just one tiny example of possible

problems. But what can people do if they become jobless due to Y2K problems?

 

Srila Prabhupada is ready with the answer: "We shall give them employment on

our

farms." Instead of being a catastrophe for them, it will end up being a

spiritual opportunity.

 

At least this is Srila Prabhupada's vision.

 

And, as you significantly have pointed out, according to Srila Prabhupada's

vision, it is not necessary that people become devotees first, before they come

to our farm communities. No, rather he states, "you remain grhmedhis." His

idea of course is not that they will remain grhmedhis forever. His idea is

that

when they come for shelter and employment, they will gradually turn into

devotees because they are treated nicely and find security in a Krsna conscious

community.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

[Guest guest]

> Srila Prabhupada is ready with the answer: "We shall give them employment

> on our farms." Instead of being a catastrophe for them, it will end up

> being a spiritual opportunity.

 

But can our farms maintain them and their families or pay them a salary so

that they can pay their bills?

Or should they rather start their own farm and maintain themselfs and chant

Hare Krsna, in the area where there are already devotee farms?

 

> At least this is Srila Prabhupada's vision.

>

> And, as you significantly have pointed out, according to Srila

> Prabhupada's vision, it is not necessary that people become devotees

> first, before they come to our farm communities. No, rather he states,

> "you remain grhmedhis." His idea of course is not that they will remain

> grhmedhis forever. His idea is that when they come for shelter and

> employment, they will gradually turn into devotees because they are

> treated nicely and find security in a Krsna conscious community.

 

A Krsna conscious community which can expand into a devotee village where

there is much land around would be indeed a good idea, but just to have a

farm and invite people to move to this farm, where nothing belongs to them,

is this realistic to atract someone with his family to live there?

How many families can be maintaind from one farm?

 

> your servant,

> Hare Krsna dasi

 

ys

Harsi das

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Ramesvara: For those who are unemployed, that's attractive.

> Jagadisa: But for those who are already employed...

> Ramesvara: But most people have jobs.

> Prabhupada: Eh?

> Ramesvara: Many people already have their jobs and their families.

> Prabhupada: All right, let them not come, but those who are unemployed, let

> them

> come.

> Ramesvara: But what...? For those people who already have their jobs, instead

> of...

> Prabhupada: That job... They will be very soon jobless. Don't worry. (laughs)

> They will come. They will be obliged to come. Now they have got job, but as

the

> days are advancing in Kali-yuga, they'll be jobless.

>

> **************************************

 

So let those who are employed pay into the endowment funds to build up the

farms.

Then, when they are jobless, they will have a place to go.

[Guest guest]

> A Krsna conscious community which can expand into a devotee village where

> there is much land around would be indeed a good idea, but just to have a

> farm and invite people to move to this farm, where nothing belongs to

> them, is this realistic to atract someone with his family to live there?

 

Obviously not, we have to be prepared.

 

> How many families can be maintaind from one farm?

 

Depends on the size of the farm.

 

YS

[Guest guest]

"COM: Samba (das) SDG (Mauritius)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2514129 from COM]

>

> > A Krsna conscious community which can expand into a devotee village where

> > there is much land around would be indeed a good idea, but just to have a

> > farm and invite people to move to this farm, where nothing belongs to

> > them, is this realistic to atract someone with his family to live there?

>

> Obviously not, we have to be prepared.

>

> > How many families can be maintaind from one farm?

>

> Depends on the size of the farm.

>

> YS

 

Also on the carrying capacity of the land which is dependent on rainfall,

potential for sustainable irrigation, lay of the land, temperature

extremes, humus content of the soil, etc.

[Guest guest]

>> A Krsna conscious community which can expand into a devotee village where

>> there is much land around would be indeed a good idea, but just to have a

>> farm and invite people to move to this farm, where nothing belongs to

>> them, is this realistic to atract someone with his family to live there?

>

>> How many families can be maintaind from one farm?

>

>Depends on the size of the farm.

 

The ISKCON-owned 'farm' concept should to go out the same window as the

ISKCON-goshalla did(?). The KC village may be 'managed' by ISKCON or a

devotee community council, but the farms (land) must be owned by devotee

families (or life-time leased). Either that or the devotees, families and

cows may be subject to abuse, rejection and...(we've all been around long

enough to fill in this blank).

 

nistula

[Guest guest]

Madhava:

>> So let those who are employed pay into the endowment funds to build up

>>the farms. Then, when they are jobless, they will have a place to go.

 

Samba:

>Great idea in this day and age. It is a fact that once there was no

>question of being made redundant, especialy in places like Japan. But now

>there is no such security anywhere.

 

>I have heard that in Italy, pensions are being drasticaly reduced. Imagine

>you work your whole life for a guaranteed pension, and then the government

>says 'sorry...'

 

I don't think we have to look to Japan or Italy, nor to all the

'grihamedis' who will want to join us(?) - just as we're aware that some

our own farms sold cows after a lifetime of service, the same is true of

the cow-tenders and devotees. How often have we heard of devotees needing

major or urgent medical treatment getting a standard, "Sorry, Prabhu...",

what to speak of older devotees after a lifetime of humble service. I was

really hoping the CPS would have inspired a 'Devotee Protection

Standard':-o

 

nistula

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I don't think we have to look to Japan or Italy, nor to all the

> 'grihamedis' who will want to join us(?) - just as we're aware that some

> our own farms sold cows after a lifetime of service, the same is true of

> the cow-tenders and devotees. How often have we heard of devotees needing

> major or urgent medical treatment getting a standard, "Sorry, Prabhu...",

> what to speak of older devotees after a lifetime of humble service. I was

> really hoping the CPS would have inspired a 'Devotee Protection

> Standard':-o

>

> nistula

 

Just now coming :-)

[Guest guest]

> The ISKCON-owned 'farm' concept should to go out the same window as the

> ISKCON-goshalla did(?). The KC village may be 'managed' by ISKCON or a

> devotee community council, but the farms (land) must be owned by devotee

> families (or life-time leased). Either that or the devotees, families and

> cows may be subject to abuse, rejection and...(we've all been around long

> enough to fill in this blank).

 

Sad but true!

 

Yes I am behind that 100%. What is that saying? 'Proprietorship, turns sand

into gold'? Does anyone know where that comes from?

[Guest guest]

"COM: Samba (das) SDG (Mauritius)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2517913 from COM]

>

> > The ISKCON-owned 'farm' concept should to go out the same window as the

> > ISKCON-goshalla did(?). The KC village may be 'managed' by ISKCON or a

> > devotee community council, but the farms (land) must be owned by devotee

> > families (or life-time leased). Either that or the devotees, families and

> > cows may be subject to abuse, rejection and...(we've all been around long

> > enough to fill in this blank).

>

> Sad but true!

>

> Yes I am behind that 100%. What is that saying? 'Proprietorship, turns sand

> into gold'? Does anyone know where that comes from?

 

"We are not going to make any huge business this year because if we do

business, the profit is more. The whole thing will be taken by government by

income tax. So we are stopping to work, to have more business." This is the

position because our mind is so inclined that if I cannot enjoy the fruit of my

activities, then I am disinclined. Perhaps you know. There is a proverb in

English that "Proprietorship turns sand into gold." A person working on his own

account, oh, he can turn sand into gold, but a person working for others'

account, oh, that is not possible. He will be slow. He will be slow because the

purpose is that "Why shall I work so hard? It will be enjoyed..." Just like our

business friend was speaking to me that "Why shall we work so hard and make

huge profit that...? The whole thing will be taken by the government." But here

the Lord says that "You cannot stop your work, neither you can enjoy the

activities, the fruit of your activities." That is the work on spiritual plane.

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.46-47 -- New York, March 28, 1966

 

Syamasundara: Their idea is that human nature has no reality of its own. It is

simply a product of the material environment. Thus, by putting a man in the

factory and making him identify with the state and something like scientific

achievement, they think they can transform him into a selfless person.

Srila Prabhupada: But because he has the basic disease, envy, he will remain

selfish. When he sees that he is working so hard but that the profit is not

coming to him, his enthusiasm will immediately slacken. In Bengal there is a

proverb: "As a proprietor I can turn sand into gold, but as soon as I am no

longer the proprietor, the gold becomes sand." The Russian people are in this

position. They are not as rich as the Europeans or the Americans, and because

of this they are unhappy.

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Shortcomings of Marxism

 

 

 

Now this communist country. The communist country, because they have killed

personal interest, it is actually not developing. Not developing. I have seen

it, personally. Because, as it is said in English proverb, "Proprietorship

turns sand into gold." If I, one has got the sense that "I am the proprietor of

this business," so he works very hard, and he turns sand into gold. There are

many examples. A poor man starts... But because by his endeavor... Now here, in

this country also, nowadays this endeavor is being decreased because the,

they're afraid of the income tax. They're thinking, "We shall earn so much with

hard labor, and the government, from the income tax department, they will take

ninety-eight percent. So why shall I work?" So this is economic impetus.

There is one Mr. Marshall, economist. Marshall's economics we read in our

economic class. He said that "Family affection is the impetus for economic

development." He said that. That is fact. Therefore, according to Vedic system,

a boy is married with a girl, and the husband and wife, as soon as... This is

psychological. As soon as they become husband and wife... Because the boy is

searching after woman, and the girl is also searching after man. So they must

be given. This is psychology. There is no question of so-called love. The, the

former system of marriage, the father and mother selects one boy and one girl,

and by force they are married. But the economic position becomes very nice.

Family affection.

That is also stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Pumsah striya mithuni-bhavam etam

tayor mitho hrdaya-granthim ahuh. These are very psychological. A married man

becomes responsible. Because there is affection, family affection. And one who

is not married, he's irresponsible. Because there is no family affection. That

is the basic defect of the present society. There is no family affection. They

are all irresponsible.

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 4.19 -- Bombay, April 8, 1974

 

 

 

Prabhupada: Yes. No, why they should not try to be rich? If the rich man

exploits them, that "You work in our land and take some salary," why they will

work for that? They will go to the factory, will get more salary. This way

Indira Gandhi cannot solve the poverty problem. They must take to Krsna

consciousness. Just like these soldiers, they for twenty years, simply eating

and sleeping, and they are not engaged in cultivating -- useless waste of time

-- and government has to maintain in big cantonment, big, big house, big, nice

food, nice.... This is going on. Why the soldiers are maintained? It is waste

of energy. They should have been engaged in tilling. Formerly the kings would

give them free land. "You make your fortune -- but on condition: when there is

fight, you have to join." That was very easy. He possessed so much land, and he

worked hard, and he got riches. Unless.... "Proprietorship turns sand into

gold." Unless there is proprietorship, it cannot be. So therefore ksatriyas,

they were given land: "You take land as much as you like and produce but on

condition that when there is war you have to join."

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur

[Guest guest]

Madhava Gosh quoted VedaBase => Morning Walk -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

 

"Just like these soldiers, they for twenty years, simply eating and

sleeping, and they are not engaged in cultivating -- useless waste of time

-- and government has to maintain in big cantonment, big, big house, big,

nice food, nice.... This is going on. Why the soldiers are maintained? It

is waste of energy. They should have been engaged in tilling. Formerly the

kings would give them free land. "You make your fortune -- but on

condition: when there is fight, you have to join." That was very easy. He

possessed so much land, and he worked hard, and he got riches. Unless....

"Proprietorship turns sand into gold." Unless there is proprietorship, it

cannot be. So therefore ksatriyas, they were given land: "You take land as

much as you like and produce but on condition that when there is war you

have to join."

 

This is very interesting - Although I don't think the ksatriyas actually

ploughed the land, they were given land (villages, districts, small

kingdoms - according to rank) and "worked hard" managing it, profiting from

taxes. In ancient Bengal (parts of India as well), the smaller ksatriyas

"landlords" got land from the local king or nawabs at a certain rate per

measure of a long bamboo pole, and then sub-leased it to the vaisyas (who

worked the land by employing sudras) at the same rate. The profit came from

the fact that the bamboo used measured the vaisya plots was a few feet

shorter. I think this was in addition to the tax on crops, some historians

maintain that this was a form of cheating or peasant repression by the

landlords.In the C.C. there are several stories of such devotee landlords

being punished or having their land rights revoked by being late in paying

taxes to the king.

 

nistula dasa

[Guest guest]

> > The ISKCON-owned 'farm' concept should to go out the same window as the

> > ISKCON-goshalla did(?). The KC village may be 'managed' by ISKCON or a

> > devotee community council, but the farms (land) must be owned by devotee

> > families (or life-time leased). Either that or the devotees, families

> > and cows may be subject to abuse, rejection and...(we've all been around

> > long enough to fill in this blank).

>

> Sad but true!

>

> Yes I am behind that 100%. What is that saying? 'Proprietorship, turns

> sand into gold'? Does anyone know where that comes from?

 

Since no one replied: Here is Srila Prabhupada from MOrning walk in Mayapur,

Jan '76:

 

Indian man: So now everybody will go. When the rich people will take their

_

land they have to go. They will say, "How we can live with the small land,"

so_

they will move.

_

Prabhupada: Yes. No, why they should not try to be rich? If the rich man

_

exploits them, that "You work in our land and take some salary," why they

will_

work for that? They will go to the factory, will get more salary. This way

_

Indira Gandhi cannot solve the poverty problem. They must take to Krsna

_

consciousness. Just like these soldiers, they for twenty years, simply

eating _

and sleeping, and they are not engaged in cultivating--useless waste of

_

time--and government has to maintain in big cantonment, big, big house, big,

_

nice food, nice.... This is going on. Why the soldiers are maintained? It is

_

waste of energy. They should have been engaged in tilling. Formerly the

kings _

would give them free land. "You make your fortune--but on condition: when

_

there is fight, you have to join." That was very easy. He possessed so much

_

land, and he worked hard, and he got riches. Unless.... "Proprietorship

turns _

sand into gold." Unless there is proprietorship, it cannot be. So therefore

_

ksatriyas, they were given land: "You take land as much as you like and

_

produce but on condition that when there is war you have to join."

_

Tamala Krsna: In Europe that was the system also.

_

Prabhupada: Everywhere that was the system. That is called.... What is

called?_

Harikesa: Feudalism?

_

 

And again:

 

We act as a brahmana, we act as a ksatriya, we act as a sudra.

It doesn't matter. But it must be kama-raga-vivarjitah,

kama-sankalpa-vivarjitah. Not for personal interest. So without personal

interest, who can act? Nobody will act. Now this communist country. The

communist country, because they have killed personal interest, it is

actually

not developing.

Not developing. I have seen it, personally. Because, as it is said in

English

proverb, "Proprietorship turns sand into gold." If I, one has got the sense

that "I am the proprietor of this business," so he works very hard, and he

turns sand into gold. There are many examples. A poor man starts... But

because by his endeavor... Now here, in this country also, nowadays this

endeavor is being decreased because the, they're afraid of the income tax.

They're thinking, "We shall earn so much with hard labor, and the

government,

from the income tax department, they will take ninety-eight percent. So why

shall I work?" So this is economic impetus.

 

(lecture on Bhagavad-gita 1974)

[Guest guest]

>"COM: Krsnendu (das) BCS (New Varsana - NZ)" <Krsnendu.BCS (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

>Krsnendu.BCS (AT) bbt (DOT) se, Apocalypse.1999?@bbt.se,

>Agriculture.and.the.Environment (AT) bbt (DOT) se, Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se,

>Varnasrama.development (AT) bbt (DOT) se, Prabhupada.Said (AT) bbt (DOT) se

>"COM: Kaunteya (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN)" <Kaunteya.JPS (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

>CC: "COM: Agriculture and the Environment"

><Agriculture.and.the.Environment (AT) bbt (DOT) se>, "COM: Cow (Protection and

>related issues)" <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se>, "COM: Prabhupada Said"

><Prabhupada.Said (AT) bbt (DOT) se>, "COM: Varnasrama development"

><Varnasrama.development (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

>"Let them come to our farms"

>Mon, 26 Jul 99 14:08 +0630

>

>[Text 2505738 from COM]

>

>I recently (within the last couple of months) read a text in which devotees

>were telling Srila Prabhupada that they now tell people to stay at their

>homes and practise Krishna consciousness. Srila Prabhupada replied that

>they

>shouldn't stay at home but should come to our farms.

>

>I think it was on one of these conferences.

>

>Can someone please send me the quote and the reference.

>

>ys,

>Krsnendu das

 

 

Sorry it took me sop long. The conversation is January 11, 1977.

Ramesvara: In America there is a very big emphasis on getting people to join

us by moving into our temples. The temple presidents are very eager to get

as many people to move in as possible, but in the long run most people

cannot come up to the standard.

Prabhupada: Therefore I am...Farms.

Ramesvara: So they have to be encouraged to have a little bit of Krsna

consciousness in their own home, make their home a temple.

Prabhupada: No let them go to the farm, New Vrindavan.

Ramesvara: Many people...Most people in the world, they are grhamedhis, and

they cannot give it up so easily.

Prabhupada: "No, you remain...Come here with your wife, children. you remain

grhamedhi"

 

 

____

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