GAP--govindam adi purusam

[Guest guest]

I'm not offended nor discouraged. Feelings not hurt.

 

Jaya Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura Srila Prabhupada. Jaya Srila

Prabhupada.

 

Madhava, the L.A. temple buys 100+ gallons a week @ 2.50/gallon, what to speak

of butter. In a very real sense there's 5000 gallons or $12,500 that is being

taken out of ISKCON and put into the wrong hands. Now, is the temple willing

to accept what the land and cows can produce when the land and cows can

produce it?

 

This was my experience. I found a local dairy that didn't add fish to the

milk. It was $20 cheaper, but we would have to spend that money in gas. They

didn't deliver so we were forced to visit the cows twice a week. After about

six months, a devotee spaced out the pickup The temple decided they'd rather

go back to the sure thing: Rockview Dairy. The farmer that we were buying milk

from said that Rockview's cows get so many chemicals that the cows have

miscarriages.

 

So I think this is the integration that is lacking between walking the walk

and talking the talk that is causing the frustration, the pinprick in the

social body. If I added in the congregation of the L.A. temple and the Deity

Dept., I'm sure another 100 gallons a week could be sold. In other words,

there's a market for milk and vegetables, but because not even the temple

wants to give up the cheap petrovegetables and the convenient blood milk, no

one would dare invest in ahimsa farming.

 

Now the temple's decided to renovate the building with all the money they've

saved. YEAH! I'm sure it will be beautiful. They've already killed the juniper

trees that were in front of the temple. I'd rather see at least one cow's life

spared. During WW II, the compassionate people would try to save as many Jews

as possible--create some sort of sanctuary, even if it means sacrifice.

 

Recently as I was babbling about cow protection, a devotee mentioned how he's

not really into cows ("you know, like living with them. I mean cow dung and

all that stuff...") I said to him: "Prabhu, you're in for a big shocker when

you go back to Goloka, the planet of the cows." Yesterday he told me he was

looking for some land, wants to get involved with cow protection, and he

pulled over and played Visnujana Swami's kirtan to some grazing cows.

 

I still think the best thing to do is buy a cow or two in the city, and just

utilize their products in front of everybody's eyes. People will see: this

guy's doing the right thing for the environment: composting garden waste and

vegetable scraps and using an ox cart to a) distribute prasad, b) run his

construction business, c) run his landscaping business (supplying compost to

customers), or d) pick up the children from school--and he's getting milk, and

his garden is abundant.

 

At least then the 2nd class intelligent people, the ones who have to see to

believe, can realize what cow protection is. Now this demonstration can be

played over the Internet if devotees can do what Srila Prabhupada wanted:

cooperate. If devotees cooperate, I imagine they could show Krishna

consciousness through cow protection.

 

Gaura hari

[Guest guest]

>

> I still think the best thing to do is buy a cow or two in the city, and just

> utilize their products in front of everybody's eyes. People will see: this

> guy's doing the right thing for the environment: composting garden waste and

> vegetable scraps and using an ox cart to a) distribute prasad, b) run his

> construction business, c) run his landscaping business (supplying compost to

> customers), or d) pick up the children from school--and he's getting milk,

and

> his garden is abundant.

 

First off, please don't run out and buy a cow. I know NV would be more than

happy to donate one. New Talaban is even closer, and my guess is they would

have

no objection to donating one either.

 

Second, hope for the best, plan for the worst. Assume that it turns out to be

a

complete flop, and ends up losing money and no one wants to keep up with it.

Getting a cow and breeding her, means someone needs to be thinking about the

next potentially 18 years that calf will live. If it is a cow, then it will

not

even be bred, because that will continue the cycle. If an ox, it will be 2

years before you can do productive work (pulling too much weight can deform

soft

growing bones), then after a work career, several more years when he will be

too

old to do much.

 

Have you read the standards? They specify that before a calf is born, secure

arrangements for it's entire life be made before breeding. You can't count on

raising and caring for cows out of cash flow. This mistake has been made at NV

and repeated dozens of times around the movement; young idealists start out

like

gangbusters, everyone encourages them in order to get milk they can

rationalize

as protected, then the milk and enthusiasm runs out, the support of those

interested only in the milk evaporates, and a few sincere souls get stuck

holding

the bag, with little resources or emotional support. Then when the inevitable

happens, some cows die unnecessarily, those struggling to keep it together

get

lashing attacks from the narrow minded about how bad a job they are doing.

 

You can't depend on cash flow. If the cash flow is there, fine, it can

always

be used, but you can't depend on it. You need to have enough money put into

a

trust fund up front that the income from the trust will be sufficient to

maintain

the cow for a lifetime. Be thinking around $10, 000 per cow. So a cow and

calf,

somewhere near $20,000 set aside before starting. A portion of this can be in

land, barn, spring, fences, etc. Of course, urban land will be higher.

 

An alternative to buying land in the city, would be to put aside enough to

ship

the cow and calf back to say New Talaban if that is where you got the cow from.

Since they should already have some provision for the cow's maintenance, set

up a

fund for the maintenance of the calf, based on the cost of maintaining it at

NT

instead of in a city. So you would then need only $10,000 in a fund for calf's

maintenance, and estimate a $1 per mile set aside for returning the cow and

calf

to NT if the program goes belly up.

 

Then, you could maintain her and the calf out of cash flow , with the

provision

in place that if the program failed, they would have a ride back to NT and NT

would be assured of a cash flow for maintaining the calf they would not have

had

otherwise. These figures are meant to illustrative and not actual - you need

to

do some work on that. A good commander always leaves himself a clear line of

retreat. so, having now covered contingency planning for the worst outcome,

let

us turn to hope for the best.

 

I worked for a while in New York City, and also had the fantasy of having a

cow

in Manhattan. Surprisingly, I came to the conclusion it was doable, given

enough working capital, not to get into too much detail. The most daunting

obstacle was not the actual care of the cow, but the legal barriers and

paperwork. Before you make serious plans to bring a cow to LA, you better

very

carefully research the zoning and other laws to make sure you can actually do

so. You may have to get a zoo license or something creative. Be sure you

know

what permits or restrictions you need to operate under.

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that it can be come an overwhelming

responsibility to care for a cow. My wife grew up on a dairy farm, and they

never, in her whole life there, took a vacation or an overnight trip. Every

excursion was limited by the fact that they had to be home in time to milk at

night. Dairy is a 7 day a week commitment. They have to be fed everyday.

This

is a major commitment, much more so than the average American conditioned

person

can even conceive of.

 

Assuming you clear the lifetime support and legal barriers, get a committed

person or team of persons, and actually do get a cow into LA providing some

milk

for the temple or for devotees. Personally, I think it could be a huge money

maker. If you can actually get a milk drinker to make eye contact with the

cow,

and spend some quality time with her, you may get lots of support.

Especially

if the pitch is that the money is not being spent directly, but going into

endowment funds that will be supporting cow protection programs in perpetuity,

you may be able to attract some large donations. I am not talking about $100

or

less donations, but 4 and 5 figure donations. As you hit each new $10,000 (or

whatever) plateau, you could authorize the breeding of another cow. There are

some endless possibilities.

 

So proceed cautiously with your vision. but let me encourage you to proceed.

[Guest guest]

On 24 Feb 2000, Madhava Gosh wrote:

 

> I still think the best thing to do is buy a cow or two in the city, and just

utilize their products in front of everybody's eyes. People will see: this

guy's doing the right thing for the environment: composting garden waste and

vegetable scraps and using an ox cart to

a) distribute prasad,

b) run his construction business,

c) run his landscaping business (supplying compost to customers), or

d) pick up the children from school--and he's getting milk, and his garden is

abundant.

>

Madhava Gosh:

First off, please don't run out and buy a cow. I know NV would be more than

happy to donate one. New Talaban is even closer, and my guess is they would

have no objection to donating one either.

 

Comment:

No we have quite a few and like Madhava Gosh says, will be happy to donate one

or two ...

 

Madhava Gosh:

> Second, hope for the best, plan for the worst. Assume that it turns out to

be a complete flop, and ends up losing money and no one wants to keep up with

it. Getting a cow and breeding her, means someone needs to be thinking about

the next potentially 18 years that calf will live. If it is a cow, then it

will not even be bred, because that will continue the cycle. If an ox, it will

be 2 years before you can do productive work (pulling too much weight can

deform soft growing bones), then after a work career, several more years when

he will be too old to do much.

>

> Have you read the standards? They specify that before a calf is born,

secure arrangements for it's entire life be made before breeding. You can't

count on raising and caring for cows out of cash flow. This mistake has been

made at NV and repeated dozens of times around the movement;

 

Comment:

To hammer home the point; in New Talavan we have had cows from the following

ISKCON farms - New Vrndavan 11, Murari Sevaka 73, Buffalo 18, Virginia 2, St.

Louis 15, West Virginia (not NV) 3, Miami 2 and Alachua 3. All these cows came

either directly or through another farm to New Talavan, with one exception

when we first started we [purchased, cash on the barrel head] 9 cows from NV.

The other 2 from NV arrived via another farm. All these farms where unable to

care for them for one reason or other … Why NT? Because fortunately we have

two major things going for us.

 

1. We have year round grazing, no snow, for example today at 3:15 PM Feb

23,

2000 73`F (this has been the norm for the past 5 weeks), of course we get

summer temperatures which are even harder than northern winters - 95-105

(without heat indices) July thru September. Over 85 has milk dropping and cows

in the shade with tongue hanging out - unless they have some Zebu (Bos

indicus) blood or some other heat tolerant breed like the N'Dama or Senepol.

2. We subsidize our herd with congregational donations and local business

concerns (not by massive milk production - it totals less than 5% of our

revenue). One business (Touchstone Designs) took on our mortgage in 1987

(which at that time was 16,000/month) now our 1280 acres is mortgage free.

 

Still we are struggling because we have to maintain 130 animals on less than

12,000 per year. We are not working oxen even though we have the following

experienced teamsters here; Sastra, Mother Nrsimha, Varaha, Mother Kamra,

Nanda Suta, Mother Ekeswari Gauri and Narayana Brown. What to speak of others

who have dabbled in it for 3 months to a year. All those persons have bills to

pay, the temple can not pay (will not pay?) them to work oxen and neither will

anyone step forward to give them a guaranteed income. I even had Bhakta Roy (a

householder) who took no wages for one year, he trained up a team and worked

them, but after one year he could no longer subsidize himself, he had to stop

and get a 9-5 job.

 

Madhava Gosh:

> young idealists start out like gangbusters, everyone encourages them in

order to get milk they can rationalize as protected, then the milk and

enthusiasm runs out, the support of those interested only in the milk

evaporates, and a few sincere souls get stuck holding the bag, with little

resources or emotional support. Then when the inevitable happens, some cows

die unnecessarily, those struggling to keep it together get lashing attacks

from the narrow minded about how bad a job they are doing.

 

Comment:

Have gone that route and would not like another cowherd to go there.

 

Madhava Gosh:

> You can't depend on cash flow. If the cash flow is there, fine, it can

always be used, but you can't depend on it. You need to have enough money put

into a trust fund

 

Comment:

Here is a URL that has a lot of nice information about setting up a land

trust, we haven't done it yet. It appears to be the ideal way to go until we

can disperse the herd amongst the families like it should be.

 

http://www.legalwiz.com/landtst.htm

 

If anyone one would like I have a listing of books on tax exemption and land

trusts, also other websites related to Land Trusts.

 

Madhava Gosh:

> up front that the income from the trust will be sufficient to maintain the

cow for a lifetime. Be thinking around $10, 000 per cow. So a cow and calf,

somewhere near $20,000 set aside before starting. A portion of this can be in

land, barn, spring, fences, etc. Of course, urban land will be higher.

>

> An alternative to buying land in the city, would be to put aside enough to

ship the cow and calf back to say New Talaban if that is where you got the cow

from. Since they should already have some provision for the cow's maintenance,

set up a fund for the maintenance of the calf, based on the cost of

maintaining it at NT

> instead of in a city. So you would then need only $10,000 in a fund for

calf's maintenance, and estimate a $1 per mile set aside for returning the cow

and calf to NT if the program goes belly up.

 

Comment:

We require that you sign an exchange contract saying you will be responsible

for this cow and any offspring it produces - the cow can be returned but not

any of her offspring. This is a safe guard so that we do not end up with the

results of another's mistake(s).

 

Madhava Gosh:

> Then, you could maintain her and the calf out of cash flow , with the

provision in place that if the program failed, they would have a ride back to

NT and NT would be assured of a cash flow for maintaining the calf they would

not have had otherwise. These figures are meant to illustrative and not

actual - you need to do some work on that. A good commander always leaves

himself a clear line of retreat. so, having now covered contingency planning

for the worst outcome, let us turn to hope for the best.

>

Comment:

Yes, if someone is will to pay to maintain an animal we will also accept that

animal provided there is some documentation recorded at Hancock County Court

House (this is the county we are located in) as to such transaction.

 

> I worked for a while in New York City, and also had the fantasy of having a

cow in Manhattan. Surprisingly, I came to the conclusion it was doable, given

enough working capital, not to get into too much detail. The most daunting

obstacle was not the actual care of the cow, but the legal barriers and

paperwork. Before you make serious plans to bring a cow to LA, you better very

carefully research the zoning and other laws to make sure you can actually do

so. You may have to get a zoo license or something creative. Be sure you know

what permits or restrictions you need to operate under.

 

Comment;

Yes this is going to be the biggest hurdle, the zoning and permits department

of the municipal government.

 

> The other thing to bear in mind is that it can be come an overwhelming

responsibility to care for a cow. My wife grew up on a dairy farm, and they

never, in her whole life there, took a vacation or an overnight trip. Every

excursion was limited by the fact that they had to be home in time to milk at

night. Dairy is a 7 day a week commitment. They have to be fed everyday. This

is a major commitment, much more so than the average American conditioned

person can even conceive of.

 

Comment:

That means even when you are sick, you have to make arrangement for some one

to do - or - suffer thru your sickness and do the needful. It is non different

from taking on the responsibility of raising a child, except when the child

grows up and leaves home they become their own responsibility, the cow does

not she continues and her offspring are added.

 

Madhava Gosh:

> Assuming you clear the lifetime support and legal barriers, get a committed

person or team of persons, and actually do get a cow into LA providing some

milk for the temple or for devotees. Personally, I think it could be a huge

money maker. If you can actually get a milk drinker to make eye contact with

the cow, and spend some quality time with her, you may get lots of support.

Especially if the pitch is that the money is not being spent directly, but

going into endowment funds that will be supporting cow protection programs in

perpetuity, you may be able to attract some large donations. I am not talking

about $100 or less donations, but 4 and 5 figure donations. As you hit each

new $10,000 (or whatever) plateau, you could authorize the breeding of another

cow. There are some endless possibilities.

>

> So proceed cautiously with your vision. but let me encourage you to

proceed.

 

Comment;

This will take a lot of determination and drive, shoot for the rhino. Remember

the sagely advise given by Madhava. When you have done researching and make

the decision, to do, then you can contact us and we can begin the process.

Ys,

Rohita dasa

[Guest guest]

Dear Madhava Gosh Prabhu,

 

PAMHO AGTSP

 

This discourages me from getting cows at all. The cow I did save from the

butchers we have only as a pet. We are afraid to breed her as it is way too

entangling and will only lead us to hell, from what it sounds like. Instead

we milk our goats since they don't cost much to maintain, the milk is safer

when raw (from what I've read) and it is very rich. Needs no homogenization

since it is naturally homogenized and the goats are safer to milk than cows.

Also, it seems the karmic reaction is less if we lost all our resources

and had no choice but sell the goats. Goats can be used for pets and if

carefully sold to the right people (most people don't eat goats in this

country) then the risk of them getting killed is not so great. Seems like a

better bet to me.

 

Anyone reading these kinds of warnings will feel crazy to even get involved

with cows at all. Although well-meaning, almost seems to defeat the

purpose.

 

 

 

>First off, please don't run out and buy a cow. I know NV would be more

>than

>happy to donate one. New Talaban is even closer, and my guess is they

>would

>have

>no objection to donating one either.

>

>Second, hope for the best, plan for the worst. Assume that it turns out

>to be

>a

>complete flop, and ends up losing money and no one wants to keep up with

>it.

>Getting a cow and breeding her, means someone needs to be thinking about

>the

>next potentially 18 years that calf will live. If it is a cow, then it

>will

>not

>even be bred, because that will continue the cycle. If an ox, it will be

>2

>years before you can do productive work (pulling too much weight can deform

>soft

>growing bones), then after a work career, several more years when he will

>be

>too

>old to do much.

>

>Have you read the standards? They specify that before a calf is born,

>secure

>arrangements for it's entire life be made before breeding. You can't count

>on

>raising and caring for cows out of cash flow. This mistake has been made

>at NV

>and repeated dozens of times around the movement; young idealists start out

>like

>gangbusters, everyone encourages them in order to get milk they can

>rationalize

>as protected, then the milk and enthusiasm runs out, the support of those

>interested only in the milk evaporates, and a few sincere souls get stuck

>holding

>the bag, with little resources or emotional support. Then when the

>inevitable

>happens, some cows die unnecessarily, those struggling to keep it

>together

>get

>lashing attacks from the narrow minded about how bad a job they are doing.

>

>You can't depend on cash flow. If the cash flow is there, fine, it can

>always

>be used, but you can't depend on it. You need to have enough money put

>into

>a

>trust fund up front that the income from the trust will be sufficient to

>maintain

>the cow for a lifetime. Be thinking around $10, 000 per cow. So a cow and

>calf,

>somewhere near $20,000 set aside before starting. A portion of this can be

>in

>land, barn, spring, fences, etc. Of course, urban land will be higher.

>

>An alternative to buying land in the city, would be to put aside enough to

>ship

>the cow and calf back to say New Talaban if that is where you got the cow

>from.

>Since they should already have some provision for the cow's maintenance,

>set

>up a

>fund for the maintenance of the calf, based on the cost of maintaining it

>at

>NT

>instead of in a city. So you would then need only $10,000 in a fund for

>calf's

>maintenance, and estimate a $1 per mile set aside for returning the cow

>and

>calf

>to NT if the program goes belly up.

>

>Then, you could maintain her and the calf out of cash flow , with the

>provision

>in place that if the program failed, they would have a ride back to NT and

>NT

>would be assured of a cash flow for maintaining the calf they would not

>have

>had

>otherwise. These figures are meant to illustrative and not actual - you

>need

>to

>do some work on that. A good commander always leaves himself a clear line

>of

>retreat. so, having now covered contingency planning for the worst

>outcome,

>let

>us turn to hope for the best.

>

>I worked for a while in New York City, and also had the fantasy of having

>a

>cow

>in Manhattan. Surprisingly, I came to the conclusion it was doable,

>given

>enough working capital, not to get into too much detail. The most daunting

>obstacle was not the actual care of the cow, but the legal barriers and

>paperwork. Before you make serious plans to bring a cow to LA, you better

>very

>carefully research the zoning and other laws to make sure you can actually

>do

>so. You may have to get a zoo license or something creative. Be sure you

>know

>what permits or restrictions you need to operate under.

>

>The other thing to bear in mind is that it can be come an overwhelming

>responsibility to care for a cow. My wife grew up on a dairy farm, and

>they

>never, in her whole life there, took a vacation or an overnight trip.

>Every

>excursion was limited by the fact that they had to be home in time to milk

>at

>night. Dairy is a 7 day a week commitment. They have to be fed everyday.

>This

>is a major commitment, much more so than the average American conditioned

>person

>can even conceive of.

>

>Assuming you clear the lifetime support and legal barriers, get a

>committed

>person or team of persons, and actually do get a cow into LA providing

>some

>milk

>for the temple or for devotees. Personally, I think it could be a huge

>money

>maker. If you can actually get a milk drinker to make eye contact with the

>cow,

>and spend some quality time with her, you may get lots of support.

>Especially

>if the pitch is that the money is not being spent directly, but going into

>endowment funds that will be supporting cow protection programs in

>perpetuity,

>you may be able to attract some large donations. I am not talking about

>$100

>or

>less donations, but 4 and 5 figure donations. As you hit each new $10,000

>(or

>whatever) plateau, you could authorize the breeding of another cow. There

>are

>some endless possibilities.

>

>So proceed cautiously with your vision. but let me encourage you to

>proceed.

>

>

>

 

____

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

"Kesava Sakhi (dd) JPS (California - USA)" wrote:

 

> Dear Madhava Gosh Prabhu,

>

> PAMHO AGTSP

>

> This discourages me from getting cows at all. The cow I did save from the

> butchers we have only as a pet. We are afraid to breed her as it is way too

> entangling and will only lead us to hell, from what it sounds like.

 

Given the past history of devotees and cows, discouragement is not altogether

a

bad thing. My opinion is that if a little discouragement is going to stop

someone, then they probably didn't have the wherewithal to pull it off anyway.

I don't mean that in any way as a personal putdown of you. It sounds like you

are already doing a wonderful thing by caring for a cow, even without

benefiting from the milk. I applaud you for that. Just to be aware that

before

you take the next step, what the realities are.

 

I don't mean to be discouraging anyone, but just as I tell my son who is

learning to drive to always fasten his seat belt and to drive defensively,

yes, that is a bit of discouragement, but it is more meant as a reality check.

Let's learn from other's mistakes, not repeat them.

 

Personally, I do buy organic protected yoghurt from a devotee at $3 a quart,

but the balance of my milk product consumption comes from the market. I do

keep

4-6 temple cows on my property for about 6 months of the year, and feel that

purifies my use of blood milk. If I had the money, I would rebuild the fallen

down barn on my property and keep a couple year around, but that remains in

the

future at this point.

[Guest guest]

<< I do keep 4-6 temple cows on my property for about 6 months of the year,

and feel that purifies my use of blood milk. If I had the money, I would

rebuild the fallen down barn on my property and keep a couple year around,

but that remains in the future at this point.

 

See Ram Prasad, so much you can do for the cows. Just ask Goshs accountnr.

and make a contribution for his barn. You will have a few happy cows keeping

his backyard nice and a happy Gosh family :-)

[Guest guest]

what's a barn cost?

[Guest guest]

"WWW: Ram Prasad (Dasa) (?)" wrote:

 

> what's a barn cost?

 

That's like asking "What's a house cost?" It will vary greatly on

location, terrain, size, type of materials used, purpose, and

equipment. Do you include land cost in the barn, or solely the

structure itself? Are you including labor as a cost or would one be

building it himself, and just needing to buy materials.? Are there

locally available materials that can be gotten from Nature or recycled?

Can the barn be spartan utilitarian or is there a desire that it be

aesthetically pleasing?

 

As a general answer, barns are cheaper than houses. First you need to

define what is the purpose of the the barn. A calving pen, room for 2

milk stalls and a team of oxen, with room for visiting or transient

animals? 40 cow milking barn? 400 cow milking barn? Heifer barn?

Retired cow barn? Ox barn?

 

The fact that cows pass urine from the rear end and oxen from their

middle can have an effect on design. How will the manure be handled?

As a liguid or solid? Hauled daily? Stored on site? Composted? Run

through a gobar gas generator? Where will the manure be disposed of

ultimately? Land applied? Sold as dewatered compost? You would need

to do an environmetal study to determine what sort of containment

structure is workable and permitted by law.

 

How much feed needs to be stored and what type of feed will be used? A

winter's worth for how many animals? A week's worth? Fed by hand or

machine?

 

How large of an excercise area will there be? Will it be necessary to

put a concrete pad in the excercise area? Will there be grazing areas

associated with the barn, and what is the ingress and egress to such

areas?

 

What types of predators are in the area? What steps need to be taken to

protect the animals from predators and rustlers? Will their be

visitors? does there need to be special provisions made for visitor

parking, viewing, and comfort? Will there be a space for an

informational display? Will the cowherder need an office? What

provisions for storage of veterinery supplies?

 

Don't you hate when someone answers a question with a question :-)

[Guest guest]

> Don't you hate when someone answers a question with a question :-)

 

 

How bout a geodesic dome? My understanding is that B. Fuller's design is the

most efficient in terms of natural resources.

 

Another question that I have is can a garage be converted into a barn and how?

One-car, two-car = one cow, two cow??

 

> Don't you hate when someone answers a question with a question :-)

 

(;?P)

[Guest guest]

On 28 Feb 2000, Madhava Gosh wrote:

 

> Don't you hate when someone answers a question with a question :-)

 

Comment:

They say that a brahmin always does this, answering a question with a

question.

ys, Rohita dasa

[Guest guest]

<<Another question that I have is can a garage be converted into a barn and

how? One-car, two-car = one cow, two cow??

 

Yes Gosh, you do have a large garage actually. How many cows you could fit

in ?:-)

[Guest guest]

"WWW: Ram Prasad (Dasa) (?)" wrote:

 

> > Don't you hate when someone answers a question with a question :-)

>

> How bout a geodesic dome? My understanding is that B. Fuller's design is the

> most efficient in terms of natural resources.

 

I have taken a course in domes and have built models for them prior to becoming

a

devotee. When I first moved to NV, I spent my first winter living in a

geodesic

dome with Kasyapa (now called Varsana) as a roomate. We had this little macho

austerity thing going where neither of us would be the first to light a fire,

and lived most of the winter in sub freezing temperatures without heat. As we

both spent the entire day out of the dome, and only returned there to sleep,

it

usually just seemed a waste to light the fire simply for sleeping. It would be

dark in the morning (no electricity), and dark when we came back at night, so

when we changed into our work clothes in the morning, we would have to be very

careful to have your temple clothes and bath paraphanalia organized in exactly

the

right spot, so when we woke in the morning to go to the temple to bathe, we

could find the stuff by braille.

 

On days it would be above freezing outside, our work clothes would get wet,

so

when we took them off at night, you would have to be careful to hang them in

such

a way that when they were frozen in the morning, you could still put them on.

It

would take the excess heat of your body to melt the ice in the clothes in the

morning so they became flexible again. Ah, to be young again!

 

Another complexity to deal with, was to sleep and put your clothes in such a

way

the leaks in the structure didn't get then wet (or wetter). As with most early

domes, that one leaked and later collapsed. The leakage was a major blockage

to

wide spread adaption. Not to get into a lot of detail, I wouldn't recommend a

dome. Dividing up the space creates a lot of problems.

 

>

>

> Another question that I have is can a garage be converted into a barn and

how?

> One-car, two-car = one cow, two cow??

 

Probably more cows than cars, really. A garage , yes , could be a barn, but

manure and feed handling have to be addressed. First, what is the purpose of

the

barn? How many animals of what types? Will calving happen there, or

elsewhere?

Will the calf stay with the mother or be removed?

 

If you are simply getting a cow that has already been milking for a year, and

continuing to milk her, then the calf is not really an issue. Cows are

gregarious, so I would advise having at least one other cow(cow, ox, or calf)

to

keep her company. So it seems a 2 cow barn is minimum. A two car garage

could

handle that, with manure storage outside and if feed was replinished weekly.

 

>

>

> > Don't you hate when someone answers a question with a question :-)

>

> (;?P)

[Guest guest]

"(Bhakta) Dirk Vansant (Geel - B)" wrote:

 

> <<Another question that I have is can a garage be converted into a barn and

> how? One-car, two-car = one cow, two cow??

>

> Yes Gosh, you do have a large garage actually. How many cows you could fit

> in ?:-)

 

Was he talking about my barn project? I thought he was talking generically,

or about a barn in LA for his project. Mine would take in the range of $10,

000 or up, depending on a lot of variables. I already have a slab on grade

with a retaining wall on one end.and an addon milk room.