selling bull calves * prohibitted to sell to non-devotees

[Guest guest]

Hare Krsna dasi

-

 

I am forwarding Carol Prabhu's note and Malati Prabhu's response to the Cow

conference so that Balabhadra Prabhu, our Minister of Cow Protection and

Agriculture can address it.

 

In the meantime, I want to call attention to two important points from the

Minimum Cow Protection Standards established by the Ministry of Cow Protection

and Agriculture and endorsed by the GBC this spring:

 

1. It is prohibited to sell, give or trade *any* cow, bull, ox or calf to

those

who do not follow the Minimum Cow Protection Standards.

 

2. It is prohibited to breed a cow unless there is a clear plan for the

training and lifetime engagement of resulting offspring. In particular this

means that you cannot breed a cow unless you have someone commited to train and

work the resulting bull calf. Therefore, the situation of ISKCON farms being

"knee deep in bull calves" should be ended by the year 2000. That problem

should be completely over with.

 

**Further Note: Any devotee understands very clearly that the purpose of sex

life for humans is to produce offspring to be engaged in Krsna's service. If

we

engage in sex simply for the pleasure of sex, then we will resent the children

who are byproducts of this sex when they appear. This leads to child abuse.

(Obviously, however, not the only cause of child abuse.)

 

Similarly, we must clearly understand that the *purpose* of breeding a cow is

to

produce offspring to be engaged in Krsna's service. Tragically, we have been

brainwashed by the karmi capitalist philosophy that the purpose of breeding

cows

is to produce milk. The result of such a philosophy is that when the offspring

who are "byproducts" of this milk appear, they are resented -- especially if

they are bulls. From the accounts that I have heard, the treatment of such

unwanted bull calves on several ISKCON farms has been tragic and devastating.

To my personal thinking, I believe that much of the current quarrel within

ISKCON stems from our negligent abuse of Dharma the Bull.

 

Secondly, we must admit that it is a shortcoming in our brahmanas that they

have

not realized and taught others that ox power cannot work in a traditional

capitalist set-up. Srila Prabhupada in the first canto explains that cow

protection is not possible without the leadership of a leader like Pariksit

Maharaja. In fact, we have protected a few cows without such a leader, but on

a

larger scale we have failed. As Srila Prabhupada clearly states in the Fourth

Canto, while describing Prthu Maharaja's pastimes * the vaisya protects cows

and

produces food grains _under the protection of the ksatriyas_*

 

Our brahmanas must train competent and compassionate ksatriyas before we can

expand very far with cow protection.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

 

 

"COM: Malati (dd) ACBSP (Columbus - USA)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2303277 from COM]

>

> e Quote from a letter by DGilsen: farms that are hip deep in little bull

> calfs could

> trade/sell these calfs. and get a percentage of the sale or trade ........

>

> MY questions to you are: To whom would these animals-devotees be "sold?"

> Where would they by "sold?" For what pupose would they used? Would they

> remain protected for the remainder of their natural life-time? This is a

> very serious issue...if you had a child, would you consider it as your

> property to use for your economic survival? Would you share a percentage of

> the profit with the childs' father? (hopefully not...but then, why would

> you do the same to Krishna's calves and cow children?) Please re-think

> that one...otherwise, you have presented a nice outline for farm managemnt

> and maintainance. (However, as I commented during the "hand-grain grinder

> discussion," Good-luck! Farms mean no money,mud, hard work, and NO

> takers!)

[Guest guest]

 Hare Krsna dasi

 I am forwarding Carol Prabhu's note and Malati Prabhu's response to

the Cow conference so that Balabhadra Prabhu, our Minister of Cow Protection

and Agriculture can address it.

 

Comment:

I have only a part of Malati Devi’s response and nothing from Bhaktin Carol.

 

 In the meantime, I want to call attention to two important points

from the Minimum Cow Protection Standards established by the Ministry of Cow

Protection and Agriculture and endorsed by the GBC this spring:

 

 1. It is prohibited to sell, give or trade *any* cow, bull, ox or

calf to those who do not follow the Minimum Cow Protection Standards.

 

 2. It is prohibited to breed a cow unless there is a clear plan for

the training and lifetime engagement of resulting offspring.

 

 In particular this means that you cannot breed a cow unless you have

someone committed to train and work the resulting bull calf. Therefore, the

situation of ISKCON farms being "knee deep in bull calves" should be ended by

the year 2000. That problem should be completely over with.

 

Comment:

I beg to differ, they may not be bull calves, but all farms will still have a

large population of male (idle) oxen and will have for at least the next 15

years. That is provided they have stopped production on a large scale. It also

depends how many persons may come forward to take up caring (working) those

animals. What to speak of all the retired (idle) cows. Shameful.

 

 

 Similarly, we must clearly understand that the *purpose* of breeding

a cow is to produce offspring to be engaged in Krsna's service. Tragically, we

have been brainwashed by the karmi capitalist philosophy that the purpose of

breeding cows is to produce milk. The result of such a philosophy is that when

the offspring who are "byproducts" of this milk appear, they are resented --

especially if they are bulls. From the accounts that I have heard, the

treatment of such unwanted bull calves on several ISKCON farms has been tragic

and devastating.

 

Comment:

They are frustrated because within they know they should be working them and

they aren’t, to daily see them is a reminder. If we put them in the back or

ignore them maybe, they will just go away. The non-devotees prefer them

because it means another source of funds.

 

 To my personal thinking, I believe that much of the current quarrel

within ISKCON stems from our negligent abuse of Dharma the Bull.

 

Comment:

Very likely.

 

 Secondly, we must admit that it is a shortcoming in our brahmanas

that they have not realized and taught others that ox power cannot work in a

traditional capitalist set-up. Srila Prabhupada in the first canto explains

that cow protection is not possible without the leadership of a leader like

Pariksit Maharaja. In fact, we have protected a few cows without such a

leader, but on a larger scale we have failed. As Srila Prabhupada clearly

states in the Fourth Canto, while describing Prthu Maharaja's pastimes * the

vaisya protects cows and produces food grains _under the protection of the

ksatriyas_* Our brahmanas must train competent and compassionate ksatriyas

before we can expand very far with cow protection.

 

Comment:

There are very few brahmanas, ksatriyas or vaisyas within ISKCON mainly just

Sudras. If there were some brahmanas there might be more attendance at Mangala

arotik and they would begin correction as in the time following King Vena. My

view may not be correct the best I can do is say that they are at present

hiding in disguise for one reason or another.

ys,

Rohita dasa

[Guest guest]

Great point made and I have noticed over the years, even mention on recent

com is the fact that neighbours bulls get through to ISKCON cows causing

unwanted pregnancies. The importance of boundary fencing and good fencing

within our properties cannot be over emphasised. Many properties have main

roads beside them etc. If a community decides to protect and breed cows, the

first thing should be the fencing !

Y.S. Ananta Krsna Dasi

[Guest guest]

Stephen Fletcher wrote:

 

> [Text 2306568 from COM]

>

> Great point made and I have noticed over the years, even mention on recent

> com is the fact that neighbours bulls get through to ISKCON cows causing

> unwanted pregnancies. The importance of boundary fencing and good fencing

> within our properties cannot be over emphasised. Many properties have main

> roads beside them etc. If a community decides to protect and breed cows, the

> first thing should be the fencing !

> Y.S. Ananta Krsna Dasi

 

You are absolutely correct. Good fencing is an indispensable part of a solid

cow protection plan.

Below are a few pertinent *excerpts* from the Ministry of Cow Protection and

Agriculture's Minimum Cow Protection Standards. You will see that fencing that

does not control animals' movement [presumably this would also include keeping

out the neighbor's bulls] is prohibitted. Any farm that has lousy fencing does

not meet the minimum cow protection standards.

 

In the past, there have been reports that GBC turn a deaf ear when the cowherd

pleads with them for adequate fencing. The GBC is now reformed, and they have

agreed to be responsible to help maintain all these standards. [Their first

farm

reports are due to be submitted to the Ministry of Cow Protection and

Agriculture by July 1.]

 

In reference to Rohita prabhu's point that we will still have many idle,

untrained oxen to take care of for the next 15 years or so, unfortunately, that

is true. And it is very unlikely that they will be wanted as work oxen by

other

farms, since our devotees find it hard enough to train the calves, which is the

easiest time to train them. Hopefully, if the GBCs, temple presidents and the

cowherds are vigilant, this will be less and less of a problem as time goes by

-- both by reduced breeding, and increased training of cowherds and bull

calves.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

 

*******************

MINIMUM COW PROTECTION STANDARDS

 

The term "cows" is used herein to mean cows, calves, oxen, and bulls. Cows are

domestic animals, not wild animals. They are dependent on the care of humans.

 

 

SECTION 1 CARE STANDARDS

I PROTECTION

 

RECOMMENDED:

 

4) Fencing

Stone walls, board fence, woven wire, living fences (except Multiflora rose) or

high tensile are recommended to contain cows by creating an impenetrable

border.

 

5) Safety and Security

Adequate arrangements must be provided to ensure the safety and security of the

cows from theft, and abuse, maltreatment. These may include locking gates,

lighting, security surveillance, restricted access or other arrangements as per

local circumstances.

 

 

PERMITTED

 

3) Fencing

a) Electric fencing permitted for temporary and immediate fencing, it is

especially useful for rotational grazing.

b) Barbed wire permitted in areas of low pressure and where other types of

fencing would be impractical to use, but should not be used where animals are

concentrated.

 

 

NOT ALLOWED

 

1) Transferring Ownership

Transferring of ownership or the use of cows where all the minimum standards

aren't observed.

 

5) Failure to count cows daily

Daily counting deters rustling and loss of cows who wander off.

 

6) Fencing

Failure to provide adequate fencing to control animals' movement. There should

be no barbed wire in areas where animals are concentrated and in areas of high

pressure, e.g., it shouldn't be used between a pasture and a meadow or crops

field.

 

[For more info, see iscowp at http://www.angelfire.com/co/iscowp/ for the

preliminary standards. Perhaps Chaya or Balabhadra can give us the website for

the updated standards, unfortunately, I can't find it at the moment.]

[Guest guest]

Dear Prabhus,

 

PAMHO. AGTSP.

 

 

 

>I am forwarding Carol Prabhu's note and Malati Prabhu's response to the Cow

>conference so that Balabhadra Prabhu, our Minister of Cow Protection and

>Agriculture can address it.

>

>

>

>

>"COM: Malati (dd) ACBSP (Columbus - USA)" wrote:

>

>> [Text 2303277 from COM]

>>

>> e Quote from a letter by DGilsen: farms that are hip deep in little

bull

>> calfs could

>> trade/sell these calfs. and get a percentage of the sale or trade

.........

>>

>> MY questions to you are: To whom would these animals-devotees be "sold?"

>> Where would they by "sold?" For what pupose would they used? Would they

>> remain protected for the remainder of their natural life-time? This is a

>> very serious issue...if you had a child, would you consider it as your

>> property to use for your economic survival? Would you share a percentage

of

>> the profit with the childs' father? (hopefully not...but then, why would

>> you do the same to Krishna's calves and cow children?) Please re-think

>> that one...otherwise, you have presented a nice outline for farm

managemnt

>> and maintainance. (However, as I commented during the "hand-grain

grinder

>> discussion," Good-luck! Farms mean no money,mud, hard work, and NO

>> takers!)

 

It appears that Malati Prabhu has asked all the important and appropriate

questions. Hare Krsna dasi has brought forth all the standards that prohibit

such an activity. And Ananta Krnsa dasi has pointed out the necessity for

fencing (covered once again in the standards) as a measure to also prevent

more calves being bred.

 

This is what is so nice about the cow conference. You have so many devotees

who have EXPERIENCE in the issue of developing farms and caring for cows.

The standards were written by these devotees last year and have now become

ISKCON law. Here there is a wealth of knowledge as to how to prevent

mistakes of the past. Therefore it is my himble suggestion that if any one

is proposing a farm plan, they take advantage of the members of this

conference. Yet I have not read anything on this conference about this

proposed farm management outline. Have I missed something?

 

Your servant,

Chayadevi

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

>[For more info, see iscowp at http://www.angelfire.com/co/iscowp/ for the

>preliminary standards. Perhaps Chaya or Balabhadra can give us the website

for

>the updated standards, unfortunately, I can't find it at the moment.]

 

Except for the introduction the standards are current at the ISCOWP WEB page

soon to be entirely updated. They can also be viewed on the Chakra page in

their entirety and current form.

 

Your servant,

Chayadevi

>

>

[Guest guest]

>"COM: Hare Krsna dasi (Brunswick, Maine - USA)"

><Hare.Krsna.dasi (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>

>Hare.Krsna.dasi (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se, Cow (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se,

>Apocalypse.1999?@com.bbt.se

>"COM: Malati (dd) ACBSP (Columbus - USA)" <Malati.ACBSP (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>,

>"COM: Cow (Protection and related issues)" <Cow (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>

>CC: "COM: Nityodita Swami" <Nityodita.Swami (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>, "COM:

>Tribhangananda (das) ACBSP (GB)" <Tribhangananda.ACBSP (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>,

>"COM: Madhusudana (das) HKS (Mayapur - IN)" <Madhusudana.HKS (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>,

> DGilsen (AT) aol (DOT) com

>Re: selling bull calves * prohibitted to sell to non-devotees

>Mon, 10 May 99 12:32 -0400

>

>[Text 2305533 from COM]

>

> Hare Krsna dasi

>-----------------

>To my personal thinking, I believe that much of the current quarrel within

>ISKCON stems from our negligent abuse of Dharma the Bull.

 

Current quarrel in the whole world, too. Srimad Bhagavatam.

>

>Secondly, we must admit that it is a shortcoming in our brahmanas that they

>have

>not realized and taught others that ox power cannot work in a traditional

>capitalist set-up.

 

By traditional, if you mean non-vedic, absolutely.

 

 

Srila Prabhupada in the first canto explains that cow

>protection is not possible without the leadership of a leader like Pariksit

>Maharaja. In fact, we have protected a few cows without such a leader, but

>on

>a

>larger scale we have failed.

 

I would say, maybe I'm being sentimental, but Srila Prabhupada IS that

leader like Pariksit. It is he who started for the first time in history,

cow protection in the western countries, and gave instruction for a WAY OF

LIFE BASED ON IT. Then he did the groundwork, purchasing land. Then he

instructed, that this will be so potent, so ideal, so nice, that people will

automatically take it up- we won't even have to preach it or to advertise.

Problem is when brahmanas- or any devotee- thinks that something else is

better. It hasn't been yet shown, how can we say Prabhupada's wrong? When we

do follow, though, not only our own problems will gradually vanish, but

others will be inspired to follow our positive alternative to capitalistic

society, because that type of society is riddled with problems and hellish,

and thus the cause of cow protection will spread beyond our farms. At least

that was Srila Prabhupada's prediction. "I these farm projects are

successful, the world will be enveloped by Krsna consciousness."

 

As Srila Prabhupada clearly states in the Fourth

>Canto, while describing Prthu Maharaja's pastimes * the vaisya protects

>cows

>and

>produces food grains _under the protection of the ksatriyas_*

 

Srila Prabhupada wanted ISKCON to be for training an ideal class of men-

brahmanas. Then, because there is a need to show ideal society, not just one

class, they can be trained in the other varnas, and train others also. Even

as vaisyas or sudras, we are ultimately vaisnavas. Therefore, in the absense

of trained brahmanas, if the need be we can take on this role as teacher, if

it is necessary- just like you are doing. Fact is, every devotee on a farm

should know what Srila Prabhupada's instructions are for the farms, and

insist they be followed. I think that's everyone's right as inheritors of

Srila Prabhupada's legacy. Of course, how to go about insisting, that takes

heaps of tact and diplomacy, both of which I find difficult!

>

>Our brahmanas must train competent and compassionate ksatriyas before we

>can

>expand very far with cow protection.

 

How to train them as such? Refer them to the instructions of Srila

Prabhupada on the very special value of the cow and bull, of those who

protect them, of those who base their existence on them, thus ensuring their

on-going protection.

>

>your servant,

>

>Niscala dd

>

>

>"COM: Malati (dd) ACBSP (Columbus - USA)" wrote:

>

> > [Text 2303277 from COM]

> >

> > e Quote from a letter by DGilsen: farms that are hip deep in little

>bull

> > calfs could

> > trade/sell these calfs. and get a percentage of the sale or trade

>........

> >

> > MY questions to you are: To whom would these animals-devotees be "sold?"

> > Where would they by "sold?" For what pupose would they used? Would they

> > remain protected for the remainder of their natural life-time? This is

>a

> > very serious issue...if you had a child, would you consider it as your

> > property to use for your economic survival? Would you share a

>percentage of

> > the profit with the childs' father? (hopefully not...but then, why

>would

> > you do the same to Krishna's calves and cow children?) Please re-think

> > that one...otherwise, you have presented a nice outline for farm

>managemnt

> > and maintainance. (However, as I commented during the "hand-grain

>grinder

> > discussion," Good-luck! Farms mean no money,mud, hard work, and NO

> > takers!)

>

 

 

____

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com