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<<Dwibhuja's worried that Janeshwar will make an offense

and ruin his and our spiritual lives. Janeshwar's worried that the GBC

are making offenses to the children, cows, women, and men of ISKCON, and

their lives will be ruined. Pancha Tattva wants to express his heartfelt

appreciation for the wonderful gift of Krishna Consciousness that ISKCON

(not "in spite of," but "because of" the leaders) has bestowed upon him.

 

Good to have you on the conference so that we can keep our consciousness

where it should be... maybe it's a little exercise in positive thinking

tho...

 

<<since Janeshwar won't change, hopefully the society will and varnashram

will be implemented.

 

Jaya ! Everyone has something to contribute... it just a matter of

appriciating it and giving it the right place in the puzzle...

 

<<i want to share a definition of love

 

thanks

 

<< Janeshwara Prabhu is sharing his realizations with us, and who has the

pride to deny his contributions and chastise him? i thank him for sharing

his realizations

 

Perhaps it is because you appriciate his input and some don't ...

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On 28 Feb 2000, Martin wrote:

 

> So let us have a simple rule. Don't use the leaders of ISKCON as a

> scapegoat. If anyone has a valid criticism and feels moved to put it

> forward. By all means. But the rule should be specific names and times

 

Specific names and times is worse, in my opinion, because then the reputation

of the devotee questioned is tarnished whereas everyone has to accept the

collective karma of the groups they belong to. just like i'm an american human

being on the planet earth. i can be criticized for being a wasteful, foolish

american, a member of a species which is ruining the planet for everybody, on

a planet which is not even worthy of the demigods.

 

then i'm a hare krishna (sometimes i'm embarrassed to admit it because i feel

that hare krishnas have a bad reputation). i'm caucasian, etc. etc.

 

criticism based on groups, etc. are not that difficult to take. when someone

starts throwing my name about and attributing guilt and blame, then i may feel

more inclined to respond and defend my actions. there are always two sides to

every story, and it's not fair to cast a negative light on someone without

inviting them to respond. if someone, however, expresses their opinion about

how the brain or arms of the social body should act, what's the problema?

 

Ram

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So let us have a simple rule. Don't use the leaders of ISKCON as a

scapegoat. If anyone has a valid criticism and feels moved to put it

forward. By all means. But the rule should be specific names and times and

then they should say who they are and why they feel obliged to bring up this

issue in this way. Otherwise persons who claim to be cowherders or friends

of the cows can use this forum for the purpose of blasphemy which is never

to be tolerated by Vaisnavas, even the new age ones.

 

YS

Dvibhuja das

 

WWW: Ram Prasad (Dasa) (?) <ramprasad (AT) com (DOT) org>

Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Sunday, February 27, 2000 11:40 PM

love is to listen to

 

 

>suggestion:

>

>if you read an e-mail text and find the text offensive, go to the next

>one. similarly, if someone says something offensive to you, leave or walk

>away.

>

>when i see 7 texts on the cow protection conference, i get excited

>because i think the devotees are sharing their enthusiasm for protecting

>cows. it's disheartening to see that the texts are merely the conference

>police cracking down on an offender. after sifting through it all, the

>word "jaya" does not come to mind. "why?" is more like it.

>--

>

>having said that, i want to share a definition of love which i expressed

>prior to reading Shrila Prabhupada's books: "love is to listen to."

>consciousness is the only possession of the soul, and when we focus that

>consciousness on someone, we are giving them all we have--that is love.

>the first process of bhakti is hearing. Janeshwara Prabhu is sharing his

>realizations with us, and who has the pride to deny his contributions and

>chastise him? i thank him for sharing his realizations with us and

>encourage him to share more.

>

>having said that, i felt his initial text might have been better suited

>for the varnashram conference, which i do not to. i remember

>years ago when i was a r to that conference that Janeshwar

>regularly contributed articles in the same tone. since Janeshwar won't

>change, hopefully the society will and varnashram will be implemented.

>then maybe we'll get to see another side of Janeshwar, the one who cares

>deeply about women, cows, and children.

>

>i know in that sense that we're all on the same side, but expressing it

>in different ways. Dwibhuja's worried that Janeshwar will make an offense

>and ruin his and our spiritual lives. Janeshwar's worried that the GBC

>are making offenses to the children, cows, women, and men of ISKCON, and

>their lives will be ruined. Pancha Tattva wants to express his heartfelt

>appreciation for the wonderful gift of Krishna Consciousness that ISKCON

>(not "in spite of," but "because of" the leaders) has bestowed upon him.

>okay, we understand. Now let's talk about cows.

>

>a cow is of the bovine ilk

>from one

>

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If you are embarrased to tell people you are a Hare Krishna, then you

probably either are suffering from a complex from book distribution so maybe

you could sue ISKCON leaders for not giving you a healthy reputation like

the mooonies have. After all they have respectable shrimping business etc

and they are all good family people. These Hare Krishna's just want to sell

books, and always try to convert everybody, They don't even eat their cows.

They are brainwashed, right. .

The reason this discussion is going on at all is people who don't even

really do anything for cow protection have designated themselves the ones

who will be the critics of ISKCON. I have complained in the past about it.

I am just about to the point of giving up. Where is the authority on this

conference.

Can anyone just say anything about ISKCON and you don't even have to

verify it. It has become a haven for those souls who choose to decry our

movement. I am mostly a reader if something useful might come along to

maybe help in our service. I see that the most things coming now are simply

snakes who don't give a fig about ISKCON, they have a agenda to destroy

ISKCON and claim Oh, I had to do it. I did it for your own good. I for one

will sign off and let everyone that I know that the cow conference is now

not meant for any good work just full of dissilusioned droputs who want to

blame the GBC for everyhting with absolutely nothing to back up except

inuendos etc.

I want to serve Mother cow in Prabhupada's ISKCON under the auspicies of

Srila Prabhupadas's GBC. I think that is what this cow conference is for.

Not to try and discredit ISKCON.

 

Am I wrong? If so can you please let me know so I can remove my name from a

conference where this open blasphemy of devotees who have dedicated their

lives to the propogation of the holy names is tolerated and even supported.

I can't beleive the wonderful devotees who set up this confernce wanted this

to happen.

It is not even close to constructive discussion, it is open warfare and

the GBC snf leaders being saintly are not about to set in defending

themselves. I can't stand to hear it though. Am I the only one that sees

this stuff coming from Niscala,Ramprasad,Dirk etc. I mean blashphempy is

serious spiritual stuff and therefore we have to at least speak out against

the gross transgressions on a devotee conference. It is not closeminded.

It is actually open minded with love and trust in ISKCON and Srila

Prabhupada's message. It pains me to hear it and so this is my last

request. Then I will gladly just write to souls who really are more likely

to listen to me anyway.

 

YS

Dvibhuja das

 

WWW: Ram Prasad (Dasa) (?) <ramprasad (AT) com (DOT) org>

Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Monday, February 28, 2000 5:30 PM

Re: love is to listen to

 

 

>On 28 Feb 2000, Martin wrote:

>

>> So let us have a simple rule. Don't use the leaders of ISKCON as a

>> scapegoat. If anyone has a valid criticism and feels moved to put it

>> forward. By all means. But the rule should be specific names and times

>

>Specific names and times is worse, in my opinion, because then the

reputation

>of the devotee questioned is tarnished whereas everyone has to accept the

>collective karma of the groups they belong to. just like i'm an american

human

>being on the planet earth. i can be criticized for being a wasteful,

foolish

>american, a member of a species which is ruining the planet for everybody,

on

>a planet which is not even worthy of the demigods.

>

>then i'm a hare krishna (sometimes i'm embarrassed to admit it because i

feel

>that hare krishnas have a bad reputation). i'm caucasian, etc. etc.

>

>criticism based on groups, etc. are not that difficult to take. when

someone

>starts throwing my name about and attributing guilt and blame, then i may

feel

>more inclined to respond and defend my actions. there are always two sides

to

>every story, and it's not fair to cast a negative light on someone without

>inviting them to respond. if someone, however, expresses their opinion

about

>how the brain or arms of the social body should act, what's the problema?

>

>Ram

>

>

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