Guest guest Posted April 29, 1999 Report Share Posted April 29, 1999 Dear Prabhus, PAMHO, AGTSP! Just bringing up about cow patties and biogas digesters again! ...thought I was a bit fanatical, and Hare Krsna prabhu, please accept my humble obeisances and apologies- your contribution to the cause of simple living is peerless! Please let me know if I can somehow be of service. About the patties, I mentioned to Pancaratna prabhu, but I thought I'd put it on com too, that there's a book called "Bread from Stones" by Hansel, published in 1890, that establishes that plants actually don't need to take nitrogen from the soil. They get it from the atmosphere. High nitrogen levels cause lush growth similar to adding superphosphate, but this is at the expense of the uptake of TRACE ELEMENTS by the plant. It is these trace elements that are important to our health and that of our cows, therefore they must be present in the plants we eat. They are NOT destroyed by burning and are present in the ash. If this is true, its a big plus for the vedic model of complete independence of machine technology, and complete dependence on what the cow and bull provide.Before y'all think I'm getting fanatical again, the steel etc. used in a biogas thing mightn't be so bad, since in vedic times there was mining of metals. The point is to keep it as simple as possible or practical. Therefore our plows for our bulls are steel, and there's no problem with that. And bio-gas digesters may use it but are they practical is the point. If there's a simpler way that doesn't cause problems with simple living e.g. by decreasing soil fertility, then we opt for the simple way- to be free from dependence on the machine civilization- which is descibed by Srila Prabhupada (many times) as hellish, and directly opposed to the proper cultivation of the human spirit- self-realization. S.P.: Don't be allured by this machine civilization- this soul- killing civilization- especially the European countries...you can have a cottage anywhere and grow your own food. Am I right? Dependence on machine has directly resulted in cow slaughter, as excellently explained by Hare Krsna dasi in her articles. This cow slaughter, Srila Prabhupada mentions, is the cause of all problems in human society. In this regard I refer to Pancharatna's mention of a shortage of dung in Bengal, which has led to decreased soil ferility, which might indicate the necessity of bio-gas digesters. The root of the problem though is that there is large-scale cow-slaughter in this state (correct me if I'm wrong but it is one of the 2 states in India where this is allowed). But even all over India, its a common thing that wherever the old cows/bulls are unproductive, they are let loose and generally taken by moslems for slaughter. This slaughter has led to a shortage of dung, and a myriad of problems has resulted, which are described in "Dung is a Gold Mine" and "Dung, Dung, Dung" (printed in India)- these books are the perfect purports to the above statement of Srila Prabhupada's ("cow slaughter is the cause of all problems in human society") Reasons given are environmental damage (deforestation or forced cutting of trees for cooking fuel caused by dung shortage; dung shortage leading to soil fertility decrease; many others); increase in unemployment and poverty levels and increase in social problems. All this information is presented very scientifically, with facts and figures, tables of statistics etc. These are really excellent books for devotees, especially in India, especially dealing with rural communities. If anyone is interested and needs the ISBN's, I can get them from Lagudi prabhu. Fact is old cows are valuable- in India they eat practically anything and turn it into a very valuable product- dung, but the Indians have been brainwashed into thinking they're a burden. Without this dung, though the problems are massive. This and the book by Hansel, Lagudi has details of (Ithink) Hope you find this non-fanatically OK- YS, Niscala dd. ____ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 1999 Report Share Posted April 30, 1999 >Noma Petroff <npetroff (AT) bowdoin (DOT) edu> >niscala99 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com, Varnasrama.development (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se >Re: Dung or digesters? >Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:38:58 -0400 > > > >Noelene Hawkins wrote: > >>[Text 2276372 from COM] >> >>Dear Prabhus, >>PAMHO, AGTSP! Just bringing up about cow patties and biogas digesters >>again! ...thought I was a bit fanatical, and Hare Krsna prabhu, >>please accept my humble obeisances and apologies- your contribution >>to the cause of simple living is peerless! Please let me know if I >>can somehow be of service. >>About the patties, I mentioned to Pancaratna prabhu, but I thought >>I'd put it on com too, that there's a book called "Bread from Stones" >>by Hansel, published in 1890, that establishes that plants actually >>don't need to take nitrogen from the soil. They get it from the >>atmosphere. High nitrogen levels cause lush growth similar to adding >>superphosphate, but this is at the expense of the uptake of TRACE >>ELEMENTS by the plant. It is these trace elements that are important >>to our health and that of our cows, therefore they must be present in >>the plants we eat. They are NOT destroyed by burning and are present >>in the ash. > >Another very important aspect of composted manure is that it conditions >the earth so that it will retain moisture better. When Krsna was on >earth, Vrndavana was very lush. I have not been to Vrndavana personally, >but I understand that much of it is now like a desert, very dry and >sandy. > >To me, this indicates that over the centuries, animal and human manure >have not been returned to the soil. How was it though, that 5000 years ago, it was a lush environment? There were no bio-gas digesters then, and cooking was probably done by dung, as if they'd used wood then there wouldn't be much of a Vrindavan forest after a while. I've done studies in organic farming, and use cow dung to grow my own crops, and I agree it is an excellent conditioner for the soil , but according to this book, high levels of nitrogen, as is present in the slurry from the digester, cause plants to grow lushly but at the expense of the uptake of trace elements by the plant, trace elements necessary for our good health. It may however be necessary as a SHORT term solution for really poor soil, and also where population density is very high, such as in India. If however, cow slaughter in India is stopped, then enough dung would be created eventually,to NATURALLY condition the soil, while providing enough cooking fuel to halt the rapid deforestation (by people needing wood for fuel) which is causing so many problems in India's environment. Also MANY other problems. This is all detailed in the book "Dung is a Gold Mine" Therefore, educating Indian people to seeing the value of COMPLETE cow protection, as the key to becoming free from most of their economic problems- is probably the best long-term solution. Please read *Topsoil and >Civilization* by Vernon Carter and Tom Dale and also Sir Albert Howard's >*Agricultural Testament* and other titles. Then you will see how >important manure is to condition the soil. I agree, I use it myself. > >At Gita-nagari I remember that when we had a drought, all the potato >plants died, except for two that were growing over the composted cow >manure. Manure conditions the soil so that plants can survive and >flourish. I very much doubt that simple ash can accomplish the same >results. No, composted cow manure is wonderful, I agree, but so is the ash which is full of trace elements. There are other ways to increase organic matter in the soil,too, such as green manure crops, if organic matter is in shortage, due to burning too many patties. > >Also, I just read in the *Small Farmers Journal* that fertilizer is >America's #1 export to India. If cow manure were being put back into the >earth at a sufficient rate, there would be no need to import fertilizer. They are killing the source of top-quality fertilizer- the old cows and bulls- and importing fertilizer at high prices I bet that the poor village farmer can't afford! Kali-yuga! > >Dung or Digesters? This still does not mean that I am necessarily >endorsing biogas digesters. I think the decision has to be made on a >case-by-case basis by devotees who have carefully educated themselves on >all the factors involved. Cooking with cow manure patties sounds great >to me, as long as the majority of the manure is being returned to the >soil. For India, this would be only possible, unless you want huge deforestation, by culling the slaughter of old cows. India's ecology goes back millions of years, to when cows were never slaughtered, and the vedas describe that the earth was lush at that time. Srila Prabhupada describes cow-slaughter as being the cause of all problems in today's society. This includes lack of soil fertility, and this book is a perfect purport to that, using well-researched facts and figures. In the west, with our much-lesser population density, it should be easy to get enough dung for fuel and still put much back into the soil. >your servant, > >Niscala dd. > > ____ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 1999 Report Share Posted May 23, 1999 > They are killing the source of top-quality fertilizer- the old cows and > bulls- and importing fertilizer at high prices I bet that the poor village > farmer can't afford! Kali-yuga! And creating a vulnerability to Y2K disruptions. Soils that are overstimulated by chemical fertilisers are as dependent on those shemicals as a junkie is on his drugs. Withdrawal from the chemicals, which are dependent on ugrakarmic manufacturing methods and transportation systems, will cause crop failures as surely as a junkie gets a Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 1999 Report Share Posted May 24, 1999 They are NOT destroyed by burning and are present >>in the ash. > >Another very important aspect of composted manure is that it conditions >the earth so that it will retain moisture better. When Krsna was on >earth, Vrndavana was very lush. I have not been to Vrndavana personally, >but I understand that much of it is now like a desert, very dry and >sandy. > >To me, this indicates that over the centuries, animal and human manure >have not been returned to the soil. How was it though, that 5000 years ago, it was a lush environment? There were no bio-gas digesters then, and cooking was probably done by dung, as if they'd used wood then there wouldn't be much of a Vrindavan forest after a while. No, composted cow manure is wonderful, I agree, but so is the ash which is full of trace elements. There are other ways to increase organic matter in the soil,too, such as green manure crops, if organic matter is in shortage, due to burning too many patties. > >Also, I just read in the *Small Farmers Journal* that fertilizer is >America's #1 export to India. If cow manure were being put back into the >earth at a sufficient rate, there would be no need to import fertilizer. They are killing the source of top-quality fertilizer- the old cows and bulls- and importing fertilizer at high prices I bet that the poor village farmer can't afford! Kali-yuga! > >Dung or Digesters? This still does not mean that I am necessarily >endorsing biogas digesters. I think the decision has to be made on a >case-by-case basis by devotees who have carefully educated themselves on >all the factors involved. Cooking with cow manure patties sounds great >to me, as long as the majority of the manure is being returned to the >soil. There is another book."The Lost Science of Organic Cultivation" by the great Sir Albert Howard, who is now considered the Grandfather of organic farming. He was the cause of the formation of the Soil Associations around the world. He spent 30 years in India researching what to do with cow dung and also the history of its use as far back as 4,700 years - practically Dvarapa Yuga. This book costs £12.95 and is written by a devotee for devotees - for the benefit of this wonderful movement of Srila Prabhupada. It describes in detail how we turned round the cow situation in Sri Mayapur simply by the methods described in this book. 17 colour plates of our work in Sri Mayapur and 8 black and white from Howards work which we have copied exactly without deviating from seventy years before. Aren't we always saying lets work together, let's follow the authority, let's have Varnasrama within ISKCON...need I go on? It shows the science of how you can increase the manurial output from cows up to eight fold!!!! Now that's goldmine! Without depleting any resource, and by making the cows more comfortable than they are kept presently in our Indian goshalas. The bibliography is fantastic, i.e., The Remaking of Village India, Oxford University Press, F.L. Brayne, 1929 - on whose work I have based my Satvik Indore Toilet...which by the way is selling at a hot rate. I am planning the next shipment from India. It is the only toilet in the world you never have to, or need to, clean out! Now that should attract ISKCON devotees.....? I am selling this book incidentally to top scientists and professors who are fascinated with the science of how to do this. It is missing in 99.9% of western agriculture; and thus those farms are losing huge amounts of valuable resource. Howard was right it is the way forward for for solving the problems of village India and comunities throughout the rest of the world. Also "Proper fertility of the land has a direct bearing on health. It will in all probability be the means by which industry can initiate a new forward move in preventative medicine." (Howard, London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, 1937.) Abhiram and Rohita (40 years with cows) prabhus have also declared this system to be VEDIC. Abhiram personally told me he thought that Dvaraka itself must have been serviced in this way! Your servant, Radha Krsna das. Environmental Consultant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 1999 Report Share Posted July 27, 1999 > How was it though, that 5000 years ago, it was a lush environment? There > were no bio-gas digesters then, and cooking was probably done by dung, as > if they'd used wood then there wouldn't be much of a Vrindavan forest > after a while. Yes in shastra it describes that one of the gopis' services was to collect cow dung and make it into cow patties for cooking. Even Radharani herself used to do this service. Also, according to Ayur Veda, cooking with cow dung patties gives the most prana to the food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 > > How was it though, that 5000 years ago, it was a lush environment? There > > were no bio-gas digesters then, and cooking was probably done by dung, > > as if they'd used wood then there wouldn't be much of a Vrindavan forest > > after a while. >From research I have been doing lately, it seems that the older, natural ways of farming, were just far superior. Recently an agricultural survey was discovered in Madras (now Chennai), which was commisioned a couple of hundred years ago by the British in that area. The survey listed districts by name, giving yields and other information. The survey was so well done, and due to the fact that all the districts were still identifiable, it was decided to do another survey of exactly the same areas. These areas have been under standard chemical cultivation for many years. They were astonished to find that the yeilds were five times greater 200 years ago! Without any chemicals, and so called advanced technology! Just goes to show. YS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 "COM: Krsnendu (das) BCS (New Varsana - NZ)" wrote: > [Text 2509524 from COM] > > > How was it though, that 5000 years ago, it was a lush environment? There > > were no bio-gas digesters then, and cooking was probably done by dung, as > > if they'd used wood then there wouldn't be much of a Vrindavan forest > > after a while. > > Yes in shastra it describes that one of the gopis' services was to collect > cow dung and make it into cow patties for cooking. Even Radharani herself > used to do this service. > Hare Krsna dasi comments: This is interesting information. Could you tell us where this pastime is described? your servant, Hare Krsna dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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