Prabhupada: 5 Acres of Land

[Guest guest]

On 1 Mar 2000, Noma T. Petroff wrote:

 

>

>

> On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, WWW: Mangal Artika (Dasa) HDG (Washington - USA) wrote:

>

> > On 19 Feb 2000, Rohita Dasa wrote:

> >

> >

> > > There is no need for house land to exceed 1 acre, it should be purchased

> > > outright not rented or leased. In ISKCON it has been ascertained that

unless

> > > it belongs to one person (family) it will not be taken care of properly.

On

> > > this one acre is situated the family home, storage sheds (incl.

livestock)

> > and

> > > a family garden.

> > > Ys, Rohita dasa

> >

> > All Glories to your service Rohita:

> > You would need at least two acres to put a house on because of the

constraints

> > of the septic system and the well in fact if my memmory is still right it

is

> > required in MS by the health dept. for that reason, I know we have

squeezed

> > them on one before but it was a diffucult sittuation and everything must

be

> > placed just right to achive that and somtimes that is not always possible.

> > Mangala Artika Dasa

> > P.S. Keep up the good work Ro.

>

>

> Unfortunately, I don't have the Vedabase on this machine -- or the

> varnasrama manuscript. [i use 3 different computers and only one has the

> Vedabase - frustrating!]

>

> Anyway, I believe that there is a conversation between Srila Prabhupada

> and Allen Ginsberg, Columbus, Ohio, May 1968. In that conversation, Srila

> Prabhupada tells Allen Ginsberg that a person can be self-sufficient on 5

> acres of land.

>

> I know that sometimes in other contexts, Srila Prabhupada mentions figures

> like one acre, but it seems to me that the figure of 5 acres sounds the

> most reasonable for a temperate climate. More land is needed for two

> reasons:

>

> 1. Since the animals can't graze year round (unless you are a master

> grazier, like some of those Alberta farmers), you need to have extra land

> to raise alfalfa, corn, hay and grains, to help feed them through the

> winter.

>

> 2. You need extra land to provide for firewood heat for the winter.

>

> The final consideration has to be that if we are seriously trying to

> attract a young man to set up a self-sufficient residence on the land, we

> have to make it attractive enough that he will see some future in it for

> his children as well as himself. I don't think you'll get many qualified

> candidates if you only offer 1 acre. That is not enough for a

> householder, especially in a cold climate. I think Prabhupada's quotation

> of five acres will have a much better chance of attracting someone who

> will stick with it.

>

> Could someone please look up that quote for me? Thanks very much.

>

> your servant,

>

> Hare Krsna dasi

Allen Ginsberg: You have a farm now?

Prabhupäda: Yes. And you’ll forget everything. You’ll be fully Kåñëa

conscious.

Allen Ginsberg: We have a farm also now in upstate New York. There we have

vegetarian table also in the farm. We have a cow, goats. But...

Prabhupäda: From economic point of view, if one man has got a cow and four

acres of land, he has no economic problem. That we want to start. He can

independently live any part of the world. Simply he must (have) one cow and

four acres of land. Let the people be divided with four acres of land and a

cow, there will be no economic question. All the factories will be closed.

 

Comment:

Prabhupada is using four acres as an example, not that everywhere four acres

is what is needed. It depends on the carring capacity of the land. For example

with unfertilized land in Mississippi (Hancock Co.) the figure is 10 acres for

one season (summer - 180 days), per cow. If you practice rapid rotational

grazing (after about 6 years you can build up the soil by this process) then

there is sufficient fertility to maintain 6 animals on one acre (during peak

production time April - July) and less according to production of forage.

 

I tested this out here during a three year period starting on four acres of

our most productive land. I grazed four milking cows (during the peak season

they averaged 30 gallons - 7.5 gallons each per day) and additional 15 cows.

It is important that you follow the rapid rotational grazing practices. That

comes out to 4.75 cows per acre, I was unable to carry this to the six years

as the temple wanted to grow a garden on this land.

 

Allen Ginsberg: Four acres, you think?

Prabhupäda: Four acres.

Allen Ginsberg: Maybe.

Prabhupäda: That I am instructing Kértanänanda, to show this example in New

Vrindaban.

Allen Ginsberg: Are you going to be able to do it on four acres?

Kértanänanda: I hope so.

Prabhupäda: Is it very difficult? Four acres of land per head?

Allen Ginsberg: I just this last night was in Minnesota, which is flat, very

fertile, very rich land.

Prabhupäda: Where it is? Which province?

Allen Ginsberg: Minnesota. Midwest. Further west. Talking with a poet who also

is a fellow sädhana, whose family is from that area for many generations,

whose brother has a thousand acres of land, and he himself has 160 acres of

land. And as farming is done now in America, apparently 160 acres is not

enough to support a farm economically because farming is done now in such

large scale with machines.

Kértanänanda: You can use those machines if you want. If you want to live in

the so-called American style, that is so. But if you’re willing to adopt the

Vedic way of minimizing the material needs in order to pursue Kåñëa

consciousness, what does one need? He needs sufficient food to keep the body

healthy and a place to lay down. So four acres is plenty.

 

Comment:

As I was pointing out one acre of land for house and associated features. Then

you lease from the temple the land that you farm. Say a thirty year lease with

your heirs having first option to take up the lease. Seasonal payment based on

the use of the land payment coming at harvest season or daily in the case of

the cows. Cows you graze on communal land owned by the temple, person

utilizing the common pasture giving a percentage of daily production. Those

grazing oxen are to spend a portion of the animals working hours working on

temple land or according the needs of the temple.

 

By the village style of housing units and the leasing of agricultural land all

needs can be met. You will have a faction of initial startup costs, taxes only

on one acre. Fifty percent of the produce must be donated to the temple/Deity

(ksatriyas/brahmins - taxes included here) twenty five percent you personally

use as you need and twenty-five percent goes toward savings as per the

direction of Rupa Gosvami.

 

Allen Ginsberg: Where do you get the... How do you feed the cow, or would you?

Kértanänanda: On four acres you can do it.

Allen Ginsberg: You can get enough hay for a cow, for...?

Prabhupäda: Fodder. Yes. We grow.

Guest: On food, it depends on what part of the east?

Allen Ginsberg: He’s a farmer.

Guest: Whereabouts? What part? Cause a cow has to have about three acres for

grazing.

Kértanänanda: So at most five acres. It’s in that vicinity.

Allen Ginsberg: See we are interested in this problem of minimizing.

Prabhupäda: So let us cooperate.

Allen Ginsberg: And doing organic farming and minimizing the effort and also

the material demands.

Kértanänanda: You can grow sufficient vegetables on a fraction of an acre.

Allen Ginsberg: Yes. We had a big vegetable garden this year, too. I’ve been

doing farming... Peter has been doing a great deal of farming.

Hayagréva: How are you tilling your land?

Guest: We have a friend who comes out with a plow.

Allen Ginsberg: You’re doing it by hand?

Kértanänanda: We just got a horse.

Hayagréva: We just got a horse. We had bad experience with a rotary tiller. We

got rid of it.

Kértanänanda: West Virginia. We gave it away.

Allen Ginsberg: So we’re also going through a coovy(?) äçrama for poets. A

little farm for poets.

Prabhupäda: Yes. Farming, agriculture, that is nice. There is a proverb:

agriculture is the noblest profession. Is it not said? Agriculture is noblest,

and Kåñëa was farmer, His father.

Allen Ginsberg: The cow.

Prabhupäda: Cow, yes. And in Vedic literature you’ll find, a man is...

Richness of a man is estimated by the possession of grains and cows. Dhanyena

dhanavän. If he has got sufficient quantity grain, then he’s to be...

Formerly, even still in India, when a daughter is offered to a family, they

will go and see how many morais(?) there are. Grain stock. If he sees that he

has five, six, big, big grain stock, then he can... “Oh, this is nice house.”

You see? “They can feed.” So in India still, the arrangement is that every

family has got at least two years grain in stock. You see? And cow at least

one dozen. No economic problem. And actually, that is the fact. You keep cows

and have sufficient grains, whole economic problem solved. Eating. And

sleeping, you can take some wood and four pillars. Of course, in your country

it is not...

 

Comment:

Four pillars; no meat eating, no gambling, no illicit sex (sex for procreation

solely) and no intoxication. You have place to eat and sleep, work to engage

your body so you are not idle and fall into mäyä.

 

Allen Ginsberg: It’s very cold.

Prabhupäda: Very cold. (laughing) India, all the year they are lying on the

flat sky.

Kértanänanda: But still, it is very simple. We also experimented with that.

You can build a nice shelter very... for ten, fifteen dollars.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, it depends. You see, where we are we’re twenty below.

Kértanänanda: Well, we have pretty near that in West Virginia.

Allen Ginsberg: In Minnesota gets thirty, forty, sometimes, below.

Kértanänanda: There has to have sufficient wood sawed up.

Allen Ginsberg: Yes.

Prabhupäda: Formerly, in Europe they were also living.

Allen Ginsberg: Man lived this way for 20,000 years, 30,000 years until the

19th Century.

Prabhupäda: So we have to live that. Plain living, high thinking. The

necessities of this bodily existence, that should be minimized and not

unhealthy. Healthy. To keep oneself fit. But the time should be

utilized—develop Kåñëa consciousness, spiritual life. Then his whole problem

is solved.

 

Comment:

So to buy the land for housing the sole requirement being the four pillars,

the prerequisite for leasing agricultural land is that you can show the

ability to make the land productive. Thus your material requirements maybe met

and you have time to take up spiritual practices of hearing and chanting. All

very simple, now if you want air conditioning and keeping car etc. you will

need a higher income - means longer working hours and more entanglement, then

best you not engage in this KC.

Ys, Rohita dasa