Guest guest Posted May 16, 2001 Report Share Posted May 16, 2001 >Syam commented > > > Let us encourage the > > vaisya's to get rich by cow protection just as > > Krishna was rich by cow > > protection. Of course the get rich is not at the > > expense of the cows but by > > following strict protection principles alongside the > > economic development. ( show me a real vaisya)...... > > I do not share the idea of mark chatburn of leading > > by milk production and > > getting the ox farms to catch up. I do share the > > concept completley that cow > > protection farming must make economic sense in > > giving its practitioners a > > good living. ( The protection of cows makes complete economic sense When you are looking a depending " personaly" on the the products that the cows produce; This is the only way the system works and that is why it is recomended that this goes hand in hand with simple natural vedic living.. It cannot be incorperated with industrial means nor anything that isn't as natural as the cows, or as Krsna, "God" intended. Why must it make money? Money could help to start things off quicker initialy, because of transforming from suburbia life and conditioning to simple living will be a long educational matter. since everyone has not grown up learning the arts that would normaly be passed down. You can therefor purchase some simple equipment that could be remanufactured easily. This way to perpechuate the simple way. And learn how to extract the means naturaly to replicate without industrial means. So it doesn't require that the cows make any money. They are making milk and yogart and gee and butter and dung for so many things and urea, and on and on.. They give us some things for susistence and we in return protect them and keep them happily just as a family member. (therefor simplify). Prabhupada had a phrase; " If you grow all your own food, that is economic problem solved ". Another factor in this which dictates everything is the contiousness in which how this is gone about ( to get rich; or just simply live) It is said that someone who is very materialy rich is actualy very poor in the sense that attachments will haunt them. Many so called rich people are very miserable because they strived so hard for something that was great to them and still can't seem to be satisfied. Some one who is Materialy poor you can see that they are simple and for the most part happy. Some of the happiest countries in the world are the poorest according to most standards. One would have to think that happiness is what might say wether one is rich or poor... In vedic times, your wealth was measured by how many cows and stocks of grains you had. (not gold or money). Much bartering was the system. And highest of all- But some have lack of faith which is too damn bad, because it realy matters and you can see the results by that faith by how much one beleives that God; Krsna has a hand in on everything. The Godhead where Krsna resides is called "Go-loka", This means "cow planet" or "planet of the cows" Vrindavan... So protecting cows main purpose is that they are worshipable, Just as much as the Deity in the temple. Each cow is a deity. When you properly take care of the cows by loving them and depending on them as much as the exchange of them depending on you.... Then something significant happens. <Krsna becomes pleased with this>... WHen God is pleased then he reciprocates to that extent and brings well being for those who have pleased him to the extent deserved. And for those who don't believe and do the wrong things to his most beloved cows, and piss him off, he has many hells to punish such individuals. All this is stated in scripture. > > If the oxen are taken care of the milk side will > > make sense but not > > neccessarily the other way, as we have seen many > > times. > >Just a note here. > >If I remember rightly, Prabhupada said "if you do not >work the oxen you will want to kill them". >Now, I'm sure there are many reasons for this both >gross and subtle. > >Now, let's take the grossest one - $ reason. > >Imagine a protected herd of cows growing to mature >herd status, the oxen are minimally worked, their >maintenace is paid for (accounting for herd maturinty) >by the milk from the cows, the compost and the leather >that will come. They are minimally worked as no way >has been found as yet to make any profit from their >work - in fact they make a loss. There is research >going on into how to make a profit, but at the moment >its viability is still lacking. If this were not the >case, not only would the cow department be supporting >the oxen it would also be subsidising a loss-making >business of ox-powered crops. What a better reason to >kill them, or not to work them. This is completely bogus... The cows for their requirements can feed themselves from barter of what they produce and the oxen can feed themselves by their work. The Oxen can easily work the feild and produce enough feed for humans as well as for them selves. and when such feed for them is not required by season, they can grase. all of this cost practicaly nothing when done simply. I logged all this winter with the oxen and they saved hundreds of dollars in fire wood which would have laid in the forest rotting and the temple would have payed to get wood from an outside sorce. The oxen also cultivated the feild that brought in the majority of food " boga " into the temple and fed all residence. Extras, That were not endeavored for were sold to a few who gave more than enough to cover cost of seeds. (which can be saved when the plant produces). >As Syam knows, I am not against ox-powered cropping >systems, in fact other than an agricultural systems >analyist and designer I would love to work oxen again, >as milking cows is not to my taste (having done both >for a short period of time). The thing is that if ox' >crops can not yield profit in the market place then >they will only yield a loss - and somehow that loss >has to be paid for. This is called in the dark....no logic... no experince...no show. >Now, as Protection Farms milk can >or can not be viable, so can its ox-powered crops. Which is being done already here.. Simply.. as well as other Iskcon farms. Maybe not the ideal,(working on it) but a hell of alot futher than I've heard from no show. >It is only by research and ultimately doing it that the >viability will be known, and if we fail then at least >we tried and maybe in the ash of the failure is the >seeds of true viability of what was missed before. This is already been done also; Everyone on this conference can vow for this.. >We have to watch the socialist ease that is slipt >into, where everything needs a subsidy and support >from everything else. As I see it, each department - >the cows milk, the ox' crops, the agroforest, the >herd's compost and leather, the tourism, the cafè, the >added-value products - needs to survive as >independently from each other as possible. Otherwise >everything is being subsidised by everything else, >whilst none actually yield a profit and the system >collapses all together. > >So if we need to wait for enlightened Brahmans or for >ox' crops to yiels fruit, we could be waiting for the >cows to come home, which of course they won't do >´cause there won't be any. There is already instruction from the Krsna and from Prabhupada, your Ears and eyes are just closed, and mouth screaming that there is nothing.. >Still at it, though I could be way off the mark - >though at least I tried, >Mark Still at nothing and way off the mark - If you just ask there is lots of help from the experienced of how to do it properly right here on this conference and access to other who also know. best of luck on the right path.. Derek- __________ > >Get your free @.co.uk address at http://mail..co.uk >or your free @.ie address at http://mail..ie _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2001 Report Share Posted May 17, 2001 "You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider your. self to be the cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your duty. Be steadfast in yoga, 0 Arjuna Perform your duty and abandon all attachment to success or failure. Such evenness of mind is called yoga. Dhananjaya, rid yourself of all fruitive activities by devotional service, and surrender fully to that consciousness. Those who want to enjoy the fruits of their work are misers. A man engaged in devotional service rids himself of both good and bad actions even in this life. Therefore, strive for yoga 0 Arjuna which is the art of all work. The wise engaged in devotional service, take refuge in the Lord, and free themselves from the cycle of birth and death by renouncing the fruits of action in the material world. In this way they can attain that state beyond all miseries." 2: 47-51 - billy bob buckwheat <d_4h (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> <markjon11 >; Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net> Wednesday, May 16, 2001 12:51 PM Re: ox / crops need profit - otherwise? > > > > >Syam commented > > > > > Let us encourage the > > > vaisya's to get rich by cow protection just as > > > Krishna was rich by cow > > > protection. Of course the get rich is not at the > > > expense of the cows but by > > > following strict protection principles alongside the > > > economic development. > > > ( show me a real vaisya)...... > > > > > I do not share the idea of mark chatburn of leading > > > by milk production and > > > getting the ox farms to catch up. I do share the > > > concept completley that cow > > > protection farming must make economic sense in > > > giving its practitioners a > > > good living. > > ( The protection of cows makes complete economic sense When you are looking > a depending " personaly" on the the products that the cows produce; This is > the only way the system works and that is why it is recomended that this > goes hand in hand with simple natural vedic living.. It cannot be > incorperated with industrial means nor anything that isn't as natural as the > cows, or as Krsna, "God" intended. > Why must it make money? Money could help to start things off quicker > initialy, because of transforming from suburbia life and conditioning to > simple living will be a long educational matter. since everyone has not > grown up learning the arts that would normaly be passed down. You can > therefor purchase some simple equipment that could be remanufactured easily. > This way to perpechuate the simple way. And learn how to extract the means > naturaly to replicate without industrial means. So it doesn't require that > the cows make any money. > They are making milk and yogart and gee and butter and dung for so many > things and urea, and on and on.. They give us some things for susistence and > we in return protect them and keep them happily just as a family member. > > > (therefor simplify). Prabhupada had a phrase; " If you grow all your own > food, that is economic problem solved ". > Another factor in this which dictates everything is the contiousness in > which how this is gone about ( to get rich; or just simply live) > It is said that someone who is very materialy rich is actualy very poor in > the sense that attachments will haunt them. Many so called rich people are > very miserable because they strived so hard for something that was great to > them and still can't seem to be satisfied. > > Some one who is Materialy poor you can see that they are simple and for the > most part happy. Some of the happiest countries in the world are the poorest > according to most standards. > One would have to think that happiness is what might say wether one is rich > or poor... > In vedic times, your wealth was measured by how many cows and stocks of > grains you had. (not gold or money). Much bartering was the system. > > And highest of all- But some have lack of faith which is too damn bad, > because it realy matters and you can see the results by that faith by how > much one beleives that God; Krsna has a hand in on everything. > The Godhead where Krsna resides is called "Go-loka", This means "cow planet" > or "planet of the cows" Vrindavan... > So protecting cows main purpose is that they are worshipable, Just as much > as the Deity in the temple. Each cow is a deity. When you properly take care > of the cows by loving them and depending on them as much as the exchange of > them depending on you.... Then something significant happens. <Krsna > becomes pleased with this>... WHen God is pleased then he reciprocates to > that extent and brings well being for those who have pleased him to the > extent deserved. > > And for those who don't believe and do the wrong things to his most beloved > cows, and piss him off, he has many hells to punish such individuals. All > this is stated in scripture. > > > > > > > If the oxen are taken care of the milk side will > > > make sense but not > > > neccessarily the other way, as we have seen many > > > times. > > > >Just a note here. > > > >If I remember rightly, Prabhupada said "if you do not > >work the oxen you will want to kill them". > >Now, I'm sure there are many reasons for this both > >gross and subtle. > > > >Now, let's take the grossest one - $ reason. > > > >Imagine a protected herd of cows growing to mature > >herd status, the oxen are minimally worked, their > >maintenace is paid for (accounting for herd maturinty) > >by the milk from the cows, the compost and the leather > >that will come. They are minimally worked as no way > >has been found as yet to make any profit from their > >work - in fact they make a loss. There is research > >going on into how to make a profit, but at the moment > >its viability is still lacking. If this were not the > >case, not only would the cow department be supporting > >the oxen it would also be subsidising a loss-making > >business of ox-powered crops. What a better reason to > >kill them, or not to work them. > > > This is completely bogus... The cows for their requirements can feed > themselves from barter of what they produce and the oxen can feed themselves > by their work. The Oxen can easily work the feild and produce enough feed > for humans as well as for them selves. and when such feed for them is not > required by season, they can grase. all of this cost practicaly nothing when > done simply. > I logged all this winter with the oxen and they saved hundreds of dollars in > fire wood which would have laid in the forest rotting and the temple would > have payed to get wood from an outside sorce. > The oxen also cultivated the feild that brought in the majority of food " > boga " into the temple and fed all residence. > Extras, That were not endeavored for were sold to a few who gave more than > enough to cover cost of seeds. (which can be saved when the plant produces). > > > >As Syam knows, I am not against ox-powered cropping > >systems, in fact other than an agricultural systems > >analyist and designer I would love to work oxen again, > >as milking cows is not to my taste (having done both > >for a short period of time). The thing is that if ox' > >crops can not yield profit in the market place then > >they will only yield a loss - and somehow that loss > >has to be paid for. > > > This is called in the dark....no logic... no experince...no show. > > > > > >Now, as Protection Farms milk can > >or can not be viable, so can its ox-powered crops. > > > Which is being done already here.. Simply.. as well as other Iskcon farms. > Maybe not the ideal,(working on it) but a hell of alot futher than I've > heard from no show. > > > > > >It is only by research and ultimately doing it that the > >viability will be known, and if we fail then at least > >we tried and maybe in the ash of the failure is the > >seeds of true viability of what was missed before. > > > This is already been done also; Everyone on this conference can vow for > this.. > > > > >We have to watch the socialist ease that is slipt > >into, where everything needs a subsidy and support > >from everything else. As I see it, each department - > >the cows milk, the ox' crops, the agroforest, the > >herd's compost and leather, the tourism, the cafè, the > >added-value products - needs to survive as > >independently from each other as possible. Otherwise > >everything is being subsidised by everything else, > >whilst none actually yield a profit and the system > >collapses all together. > > > >So if we need to wait for enlightened Brahmans or for > >ox' crops to yiels fruit, we could be waiting for the > >cows to come home, which of course they won't do > >´cause there won't be any. > > There is already instruction from the Krsna and from Prabhupada, your > Ears and eyes are just closed, and mouth screaming that there is nothing.. > > > >Still at it, though I could be way off the mark - > >though at least I tried, > >Mark > > > > Still at nothing and way off the mark - > If you just ask there is lots of help from the experienced of how to do it > properly right here on this conference and access to other who also know. > > > best of luck on the right path.. > Derek- > __________ > > > >Get your free @.co.uk address at http://mail..co.uk > >or your free @.ie address at http://mail..ie > > _______________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2001 Report Share Posted May 17, 2001 "Perform your prescribed duty, for action is better than inaction. A man cannot even maintain his physical body without work. Work done as a sacrifice to Vishnu has to be preformed, otherwise work binds one to this material world. Therefore, 0 son of Kunti, perform your prescribed duties for His satisfaction, and in that way you will always remain unattached and freed from bondage." 3: 8-9 "One is understood to be in full knowledge whose every act is devoid of desire for sense gratification. He is said by sages to be a worker whose fruitive action is burned up by the fire of perfect knowledge. Abandoning all attachment to the results of his activities, ever satisfied and independent, he performs no fruitive action, although engaged in all kinds of undertakings. Such a man of understanding acts with mind and intelligence perfectly controlled, gives up all sense of proprietorship over his possessions and acts only for the bare necessities of life. Thus working, he is not affected by sinful reactions." 4: 19-21 "The steadily devoted soul attains unadulterated peace because he offers the result of all activities to Me; whereas a person who is not in union with the Divine, who is greedy for the fruits of his labor, becomes entangled." 5: 12 "One who is beyond duality and doubt, whose mind is engaged within, who is always busy working for the welfare of all sentient beings and who is free from all sins, achieves liberation in the Supreme." 5: 25 - billy bob buckwheat <d_4h (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> <markjon11 >; Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net> Wednesday, May 16, 2001 12:51 PM Re: ox / crops need profit - otherwise? > > > > >Syam commented > > > > > Let us encourage the > > > vaisya's to get rich by cow protection just as > > > Krishna was rich by cow > > > protection. Of course the get rich is not at the > > > expense of the cows but by > > > following strict protection principles alongside the > > > economic development. > > > ( show me a real vaisya)...... > > > > > I do not share the idea of mark chatburn of leading > > > by milk production and > > > getting the ox farms to catch up. I do share the > > > concept completley that cow > > > protection farming must make economic sense in > > > giving its practitioners a > > > good living. > > ( The protection of cows makes complete economic sense When you are looking > a depending " personaly" on the the products that the cows produce; This is > the only way the system works and that is why it is recomended that this > goes hand in hand with simple natural vedic living.. It cannot be > incorperated with industrial means nor anything that isn't as natural as the > cows, or as Krsna, "God" intended. > Why must it make money? Money could help to start things off quicker > initialy, because of transforming from suburbia life and conditioning to > simple living will be a long educational matter. since everyone has not > grown up learning the arts that would normaly be passed down. You can > therefor purchase some simple equipment that could be remanufactured easily. > This way to perpechuate the simple way. And learn how to extract the means > naturaly to replicate without industrial means. So it doesn't require that > the cows make any money. > They are making milk and yogart and gee and butter and dung for so many > things and urea, and on and on.. They give us some things for susistence and > we in return protect them and keep them happily just as a family member. > > > (therefor simplify). Prabhupada had a phrase; " If you grow all your own > food, that is economic problem solved ". > Another factor in this which dictates everything is the contiousness in > which how this is gone about ( to get rich; or just simply live) > It is said that someone who is very materialy rich is actualy very poor in > the sense that attachments will haunt them. Many so called rich people are > very miserable because they strived so hard for something that was great to > them and still can't seem to be satisfied. > > Some one who is Materialy poor you can see that they are simple and for the > most part happy. Some of the happiest countries in the world are the poorest > according to most standards. > One would have to think that happiness is what might say wether one is rich > or poor... > In vedic times, your wealth was measured by how many cows and stocks of > grains you had. (not gold or money). Much bartering was the system. > > And highest of all- But some have lack of faith which is too damn bad, > because it realy matters and you can see the results by that faith by how > much one beleives that God; Krsna has a hand in on everything. > The Godhead where Krsna resides is called "Go-loka", This means "cow planet" > or "planet of the cows" Vrindavan... > So protecting cows main purpose is that they are worshipable, Just as much > as the Deity in the temple. Each cow is a deity. When you properly take care > of the cows by loving them and depending on them as much as the exchange of > them depending on you.... Then something significant happens. <Krsna > becomes pleased with this>... WHen God is pleased then he reciprocates to > that extent and brings well being for those who have pleased him to the > extent deserved. > > And for those who don't believe and do the wrong things to his most beloved > cows, and piss him off, he has many hells to punish such individuals. All > this is stated in scripture. > > > > > > > If the oxen are taken care of the milk side will > > > make sense but not > > > neccessarily the other way, as we have seen many > > > times. > > > >Just a note here. > > > >If I remember rightly, Prabhupada said "if you do not > >work the oxen you will want to kill them". > >Now, I'm sure there are many reasons for this both > >gross and subtle. > > > >Now, let's take the grossest one - $ reason. > > > >Imagine a protected herd of cows growing to mature > >herd status, the oxen are minimally worked, their > >maintenace is paid for (accounting for herd maturinty) > >by the milk from the cows, the compost and the leather > >that will come. They are minimally worked as no way > >has been found as yet to make any profit from their > >work - in fact they make a loss. There is research > >going on into how to make a profit, but at the moment > >its viability is still lacking. If this were not the > >case, not only would the cow department be supporting > >the oxen it would also be subsidising a loss-making > >business of ox-powered crops. What a better reason to > >kill them, or not to work them. > > > This is completely bogus... The cows for their requirements can feed > themselves from barter of what they produce and the oxen can feed themselves > by their work. The Oxen can easily work the feild and produce enough feed > for humans as well as for them selves. and when such feed for them is not > required by season, they can grase. all of this cost practicaly nothing when > done simply. > I logged all this winter with the oxen and they saved hundreds of dollars in > fire wood which would have laid in the forest rotting and the temple would > have payed to get wood from an outside sorce. > The oxen also cultivated the feild that brought in the majority of food " > boga " into the temple and fed all residence. > Extras, That were not endeavored for were sold to a few who gave more than > enough to cover cost of seeds. (which can be saved when the plant produces). > > > >As Syam knows, I am not against ox-powered cropping > >systems, in fact other than an agricultural systems > >analyist and designer I would love to work oxen again, > >as milking cows is not to my taste (having done both > >for a short period of time). The thing is that if ox' > >crops can not yield profit in the market place then > >they will only yield a loss - and somehow that loss > >has to be paid for. > > > This is called in the dark....no logic... no experince...no show. > > > > > >Now, as Protection Farms milk can > >or can not be viable, so can its ox-powered crops. > > > Which is being done already here.. Simply.. as well as other Iskcon farms. > Maybe not the ideal,(working on it) but a hell of alot futher than I've > heard from no show. > > > > > >It is only by research and ultimately doing it that the > >viability will be known, and if we fail then at least > >we tried and maybe in the ash of the failure is the > >seeds of true viability of what was missed before. > > > This is already been done also; Everyone on this conference can vow for > this.. > > > > >We have to watch the socialist ease that is slipt > >into, where everything needs a subsidy and support > >from everything else. As I see it, each department - > >the cows milk, the ox' crops, the agroforest, the > >herd's compost and leather, the tourism, the cafè, the > >added-value products - needs to survive as > >independently from each other as possible. Otherwise > >everything is being subsidised by everything else, > >whilst none actually yield a profit and the system > >collapses all together. > > > >So if we need to wait for enlightened Brahmans or for > >ox' crops to yiels fruit, we could be waiting for the > >cows to come home, which of course they won't do > >´cause there won't be any. > > There is already instruction from the Krsna and from Prabhupada, your > Ears and eyes are just closed, and mouth screaming that there is nothing.. > > > >Still at it, though I could be way off the mark - > >though at least I tried, > >Mark > > > > Still at nothing and way off the mark - > If you just ask there is lots of help from the experienced of how to do it > properly right here on this conference and access to other who also know. > > > best of luck on the right path.. > Derek- > __________ > > > >Get your free @.co.uk address at http://mail..co.uk > >or your free @.ie address at http://mail..ie > > _______________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2001 Report Share Posted May 17, 2001 2. A Description of Spiritual Economics Considering the verses above we note the following: a. These are instructions for production. A person must always be engaged in some activity. [never be attached to not doing your duty, (2.47); Perform your prescribed duty, (3.8); always busy working for the welfare of all sentient beings, (5.25)]. b. The results of our activity do not belong to us. [...you are not entitled to the fruits of action, (2.47); Those who want to enjoy the fruits of their work are misers, (2:49); The wise engaged in devotional service..., free themselves from the cycle of birth and death by renouncing the fruits of action in the material world, (2.50; Abandoning all attachment to the results of his activities, (4:20); gives up all sense of proprietorship over his possessions, (4.21)]. If we take this literally, it means that we give up all claims to the fruits of action as our possessions even for the purpose of selling or trading them. Where do they go then? c. These are instructions for distribution. The fruits of our actions are to be given freely to others. [One who is beyond duality and doubt...is always busy working for the welfare of all sentient beings, (5.25)] Just as in the temple we perform our service without consideration as to who receives the benefit, so it is within Spiritual Economics but in a different setting. d. These are the instructions for the consciousness of our activity. Our activities should be performed in the spirit of devotional service, for by working in such consciousness we will be satisfied. [Work done as a sacrifice for Vishnu has to be performed,...perform your prescribed duties for His satisfaction, (3.9); The steadily devoted soul attains unadulterated peace because he offers the result of all activities to Me, (5.12)]. e. We should act only for the bare necessities of life. [such a man of understanding acts with mind and intelligence perfectly controlled,.., acts only for the bare necessities of life. (4.21)] These verses describe an entire economic system which will lead to our perfection and qualify them to enter into Vaikuntha as described above. Beyond that, the characteristics of Spiritual Economics would have a wide influence over the quality of life on this planet. Let's see what that might be. 3. The Characteristics of Spiritual Economics a. The Concept of Abundance Just as material economics are based upon the material conceptions of life, Spiritual Economics is based upon spiritual conceptions of life. One of the wonderful qualities of spiritual activities is that there can be no material impediment to them, therefore, they are always available. As such in Spiritual Economics the conception of abundance replaces the concept of scarcity so there will never be problems of lack and scarcity which are so prevalent in the world today. Under Spiritual Economics the economic unit is not a producing / consuming machine, but an individual spiritually conscious living entity whose satisfaction is not derived from material sense gratification but from devotional service to the Lord. As such, consumption of earthly resources is 'minimized because more than the minimum is simply not desired or required by the humble Krishna conscious person as it is to fill the inflated ego of the materialist. Reducing the environmental impact of the human species upon the earth is thereby easily achieved without complex legislation or policing. b. The Concept of Giving In Spiritual Economics the main feature is that everything is achieved BY GIVING AND NOT BY GETTING: First of all there can be no "getting," as we understand that Krishna is the supreme proprietor. Without His consent what is our power of getting? However, every living being has something to give, which is their energy in devotional service. Giving finds its perfection in devotional service, which is reciprocated in loving relationships. This is demonstrated by the fact that Lord Krishna first of all gives to us all that is required for our sustenance - this earth and its elements, the air, sunshine, rain, even our ability, intelligence, and so on. In devotional service we reciprocate with the Lord by giving back to Him those same things transformed, as in food, clothing for the Deity, temples for his worship, and other things created in the spirit of devotional service. This reciprocal service culminates in the highest treasure of all- pure love of God. As this unalloyed devotional service matures, Lord Krishna gives Himself to His devotee and the devotee gives himself to the Lord. This loving exchange is the eternal activity of the spiritually perfected souls who reside in the spiritual world. Under Spiritual Economics this reciprocation goes on between the participants as well, each engaged in the service of their choice, but giving the results to others freely and accepting in return those things which they require for living. Life's real pleasure is giving and not getting, but our present economic structure has made this natural pleasure so difficult to perform that we see ourselves developing into selfish people. So if we consciously reform the economic system in such a way to produce the environment which promotes the pleasure of giving, naturally this will awaken the spiritual values in the hearts of men, ultimately finding fulfillment in giving to Krishna, and to all around us. b. Service as Spiritual Currency Just as material economics has a currency, so does Spiritual Economics. But the currency in Spiritual Economics is of a spiritual character. The currency is service. It is not something separate from the economic unit, therefore there is no anxiety in acquiring it. Nor is it at all limited in supply. Quite the contrary it is unlimited. In fact, the more one uses spiritual currency, the more one will have, as demonstrated by Lord Chaitanya and His associates: "Although the members of the Pancha-tattva plundered the storehouse of love of Godhead and ate and distributed its contents, there was no scarcity, for this wonderful storehouse is so complete that as the love is distributed, the supply increases hundreds of times." Cc, Adi 7.24 c. Happiness is a Result of Maximized Service The individual economic units are most happy and satisfied when they are able to maximize their level of devotional service. Free from the influence of the deluding potency, maya, it is natural to do so, and they as individuals and society as a collective whole will both achieve maximum benefit by orienting the economy toward this understanding. People can be peaceful and secure when they know that they will be taken care of, and can then focus on giving their service. d. Krishna is the Supreme Proprietor Further, since Krishna is the Supreme Proprietor of everything, in Spiritual Economics the participants do not claim proprietorship over anything. Therefore, intense competition to become the biggest enjoyer, artificially increasing lust and envy is eliminated, and all persons who participate in such an economic system can live in cooperation, free from envy, strife, class struggle and political upheaval. Considering that the main feature of all families who live under one roof is that there is no buying and selling between them, but sharing according to the need of each, then in showing the way of devotional service which includes Spiritual Economics, Srila Prabhupada has made us all one family that can dwell peacefully in one house a house in which the whole world can live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2001 Report Share Posted May 17, 2001 Dear Prabhu's Hare Krishna. PAMHO AGTSP. There are many spriritualy pointing comments beingmade on this topic. Thankyou all. It is natural that if one does not have a wife with family needs the world will be seen in a very different way than if one has a householder viewpoint. Householder dharma is to support the family. Brahmana cow protectors will should be able to live the simpler model. We as conference participants are meant I preswume to discuss and come to understanding or even many understandings how people of the world can take our message of cow protection seriously. For a moment let us all accept that it is understood by members on this conference that the goal of life is to GBH BTG and not to grow a potato by an ox. Let us not insult intelligence by assuming a different understanding. Now for the benefit of the greater world who read are books about simple living what is our practical contribution to a married man who has to support his family. Do we only have a batchelor or brahmacari farm model. So far it seams that is all we have, or at least that is what is predominantly prsented by many of the major contributers. For a moment put aside the idealistic dreams. Put your realistic hat on and ask yourself how much monetary requirement would I have if I am a householder. Now if you are mainly a cow protector then the money you need must come from your cows somehow, otherwise you are a pet keeper who has an alternative means of income. When Krishna lost his cows he was lamenting that he had lost his very means of livelihood. A practical point for us is that until we can establish a system of cow protection that the adherents are economically dependant on the cows and oxen for their livelihoods it will not be taken up by householders. This we can see is the present scenario. Realisticaly and practically we must be able to present a model of cow protection and Ox farming that family men can do. This is a society meant to make o contribution to the world. That contribution for us on this conference means we must be able to help people to make a livelihood by utilising the cow and ox in a devotional and realistic financial sustainable way. So far we have many examples of dedicated devotional devotees. Yet we need dedicated devotional economically bouyent cow protectors and ox famers. Thankyou Pancaratna for focusing our minds on these very important and fundamental issues. ys syam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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