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>Syam commented

>

> > Let us encourage the

> > vaisya's to get rich by cow protection just as

> > Krishna was rich by cow

> > protection. Of course the get rich is not at the

> > expense of the cows but by

> > following strict protection principles alongside the

> > economic development.

 

 

( show me a real vaisya)......

 

 

> > I do not share the idea of mark chatburn of leading

> > by milk production and

> > getting the ox farms to catch up. I do share the

> > concept completley that cow

> > protection farming must make economic sense in

> > giving its practitioners a

> > good living.

 

( The protection of cows makes complete economic sense When you are looking

a depending " personaly" on the the products that the cows produce; This is

the only way the system works and that is why it is recomended that this

goes hand in hand with simple natural vedic living.. It cannot be

incorperated with industrial means nor anything that isn't as natural as the

cows, or as Krsna, "God" intended.

Why must it make money? Money could help to start things off quicker

initialy, because of transforming from suburbia life and conditioning to

simple living will be a long educational matter. since everyone has not

grown up learning the arts that would normaly be passed down. You can

therefor purchase some simple equipment that could be remanufactured easily.

This way to perpechuate the simple way. And learn how to extract the means

naturaly to replicate without industrial means. So it doesn't require that

the cows make any money.

They are making milk and yogart and gee and butter and dung for so many

things and urea, and on and on.. They give us some things for susistence and

we in return protect them and keep them happily just as a family member.

 

 

(therefor simplify). Prabhupada had a phrase; " If you grow all your own

food, that is economic problem solved ".

Another factor in this which dictates everything is the contiousness in

which how this is gone about ( to get rich; or just simply live)

It is said that someone who is very materialy rich is actualy very poor in

the sense that attachments will haunt them. Many so called rich people are

very miserable because they strived so hard for something that was great to

them and still can't seem to be satisfied.

 

Some one who is Materialy poor you can see that they are simple and for the

most part happy. Some of the happiest countries in the world are the poorest

according to most standards.

One would have to think that happiness is what might say wether one is rich

or poor...

In vedic times, your wealth was measured by how many cows and stocks of

grains you had. (not gold or money). Much bartering was the system.

 

And highest of all- But some have lack of faith which is too damn bad,

because it realy matters and you can see the results by that faith by how

much one beleives that God; Krsna has a hand in on everything.

The Godhead where Krsna resides is called "Go-loka", This means "cow planet"

or "planet of the cows" Vrindavan...

So protecting cows main purpose is that they are worshipable, Just as much

as the Deity in the temple. Each cow is a deity. When you properly take care

of the cows by loving them and depending on them as much as the exchange of

them depending on you.... Then something significant happens. <Krsna

becomes pleased with this>... WHen God is pleased then he reciprocates to

that extent and brings well being for those who have pleased him to the

extent deserved.

 

And for those who don't believe and do the wrong things to his most beloved

cows, and piss him off, he has many hells to punish such individuals. All

this is stated in scripture.

 

 

 

 

> > If the oxen are taken care of the milk side will

> > make sense but not

> > neccessarily the other way, as we have seen many

> > times.

>

>Just a note here.

>

>If I remember rightly, Prabhupada said "if you do not

>work the oxen you will want to kill them".

>Now, I'm sure there are many reasons for this both

>gross and subtle.

>

>Now, let's take the grossest one - $ reason.

>

>Imagine a protected herd of cows growing to mature

>herd status, the oxen are minimally worked, their

>maintenace is paid for (accounting for herd maturinty)

>by the milk from the cows, the compost and the leather

>that will come. They are minimally worked as no way

>has been found as yet to make any profit from their

>work - in fact they make a loss. There is research

>going on into how to make a profit, but at the moment

>its viability is still lacking. If this were not the

>case, not only would the cow department be supporting

>the oxen it would also be subsidising a loss-making

>business of ox-powered crops. What a better reason to

>kill them, or not to work them.

 

 

This is completely bogus... The cows for their requirements can feed

themselves from barter of what they produce and the oxen can feed themselves

by their work. The Oxen can easily work the feild and produce enough feed

for humans as well as for them selves. and when such feed for them is not

required by season, they can grase. all of this cost practicaly nothing when

done simply.

I logged all this winter with the oxen and they saved hundreds of dollars in

fire wood which would have laid in the forest rotting and the temple would

have payed to get wood from an outside sorce.

The oxen also cultivated the feild that brought in the majority of food "

boga " into the temple and fed all residence.

Extras, That were not endeavored for were sold to a few who gave more than

enough to cover cost of seeds. (which can be saved when the plant produces).

 

 

>As Syam knows, I am not against ox-powered cropping

>systems, in fact other than an agricultural systems

>analyist and designer I would love to work oxen again,

>as milking cows is not to my taste (having done both

>for a short period of time). The thing is that if ox'

>crops can not yield profit in the market place then

>they will only yield a loss - and somehow that loss

>has to be paid for.

 

 

This is called in the dark....no logic... no experince...no show.

 

 

 

 

>Now, as Protection Farms milk can

>or can not be viable, so can its ox-powered crops.

 

 

Which is being done already here.. Simply.. as well as other Iskcon farms.

Maybe not the ideal,(working on it) but a hell of alot futher than I've

heard from no show.

 

 

 

 

>It is only by research and ultimately doing it that the

>viability will be known, and if we fail then at least

>we tried and maybe in the ash of the failure is the

>seeds of true viability of what was missed before.

 

 

This is already been done also; Everyone on this conference can vow for

this..

 

 

 

>We have to watch the socialist ease that is slipt

>into, where everything needs a subsidy and support

>from everything else. As I see it, each department -

>the cows milk, the ox' crops, the agroforest, the

>herd's compost and leather, the tourism, the cafè, the

>added-value products - needs to survive as

>independently from each other as possible. Otherwise

>everything is being subsidised by everything else,

>whilst none actually yield a profit and the system

>collapses all together.

>

>So if we need to wait for enlightened Brahmans or for

>ox' crops to yiels fruit, we could be waiting for the

>cows to come home, which of course they won't do

>´cause there won't be any.

 

There is already instruction from the Krsna and from Prabhupada, your

Ears and eyes are just closed, and mouth screaming that there is nothing..

 

 

>Still at it, though I could be way off the mark -

>though at least I tried,

>Mark

 

 

 

Still at nothing and way off the mark -

If you just ask there is lots of help from the experienced of how to do it

properly right here on this conference and access to other who also know.

 

 

best of luck on the right path..

Derek-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

__________

>

>Get your free @.co.uk address at http://mail..co.uk

>or your free @.ie address at http://mail..ie

 

_______________

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"You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled

to the fruits of action. Never consider your. self to be the cause of the

results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your duty. Be

steadfast in yoga, 0 Arjuna Perform your duty and abandon all attachment to

success or failure. Such evenness of mind is called yoga. Dhananjaya, rid

yourself of all fruitive activities by devotional service, and surrender

fully to that consciousness. Those who want to enjoy the fruits of their

work are misers. A man engaged in devotional service rids himself of both

good and bad actions even in this life. Therefore, strive for yoga 0 Arjuna

which is the art of all work. The wise engaged in devotional service, take

refuge in the Lord, and free themselves from the cycle of birth and death by

renouncing the fruits of action in the material world. In this way they can

attain that state beyond all miseries." 2: 47-51

 

-

billy bob buckwheat <d_4h (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>

<markjon11 >; Cow (Protection and related issues)

<Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Wednesday, May 16, 2001 12:51 PM

Re: ox / crops need profit - otherwise?

 

 

>

>

>

> >Syam commented

> >

> > > Let us encourage the

> > > vaisya's to get rich by cow protection just as

> > > Krishna was rich by cow

> > > protection. Of course the get rich is not at the

> > > expense of the cows but by

> > > following strict protection principles alongside the

> > > economic development.

>

>

> ( show me a real vaisya)......

>

>

> > > I do not share the idea of mark chatburn of leading

> > > by milk production and

> > > getting the ox farms to catch up. I do share the

> > > concept completley that cow

> > > protection farming must make economic sense in

> > > giving its practitioners a

> > > good living.

>

> ( The protection of cows makes complete economic sense When you are

looking

> a depending " personaly" on the the products that the cows produce; This

is

> the only way the system works and that is why it is recomended that this

> goes hand in hand with simple natural vedic living.. It cannot be

> incorperated with industrial means nor anything that isn't as natural as

the

> cows, or as Krsna, "God" intended.

> Why must it make money? Money could help to start things off quicker

> initialy, because of transforming from suburbia life and conditioning to

> simple living will be a long educational matter. since everyone has not

> grown up learning the arts that would normaly be passed down. You can

> therefor purchase some simple equipment that could be remanufactured

easily.

> This way to perpechuate the simple way. And learn how to extract the means

> naturaly to replicate without industrial means. So it doesn't require that

> the cows make any money.

> They are making milk and yogart and gee and butter and dung for so many

> things and urea, and on and on.. They give us some things for susistence

and

> we in return protect them and keep them happily just as a family member.

>

>

> (therefor simplify). Prabhupada had a phrase; " If you grow all your own

> food, that is economic problem solved ".

> Another factor in this which dictates everything is the contiousness in

> which how this is gone about ( to get rich; or just simply live)

> It is said that someone who is very materialy rich is actualy very poor in

> the sense that attachments will haunt them. Many so called rich people are

> very miserable because they strived so hard for something that was great

to

> them and still can't seem to be satisfied.

>

> Some one who is Materialy poor you can see that they are simple and for

the

> most part happy. Some of the happiest countries in the world are the

poorest

> according to most standards.

> One would have to think that happiness is what might say wether one is

rich

> or poor...

> In vedic times, your wealth was measured by how many cows and stocks of

> grains you had. (not gold or money). Much bartering was the system.

>

> And highest of all- But some have lack of faith which is too damn bad,

> because it realy matters and you can see the results by that faith by how

> much one beleives that God; Krsna has a hand in on everything.

> The Godhead where Krsna resides is called "Go-loka", This means "cow

planet"

> or "planet of the cows" Vrindavan...

> So protecting cows main purpose is that they are worshipable, Just as much

> as the Deity in the temple. Each cow is a deity. When you properly take

care

> of the cows by loving them and depending on them as much as the exchange

of

> them depending on you.... Then something significant happens. <Krsna

> becomes pleased with this>... WHen God is pleased then he reciprocates to

> that extent and brings well being for those who have pleased him to the

> extent deserved.

>

> And for those who don't believe and do the wrong things to his most

beloved

> cows, and piss him off, he has many hells to punish such individuals. All

> this is stated in scripture.

>

>

>

>

> > > If the oxen are taken care of the milk side will

> > > make sense but not

> > > neccessarily the other way, as we have seen many

> > > times.

> >

> >Just a note here.

> >

> >If I remember rightly, Prabhupada said "if you do not

> >work the oxen you will want to kill them".

> >Now, I'm sure there are many reasons for this both

> >gross and subtle.

> >

> >Now, let's take the grossest one - $ reason.

> >

> >Imagine a protected herd of cows growing to mature

> >herd status, the oxen are minimally worked, their

> >maintenace is paid for (accounting for herd maturinty)

> >by the milk from the cows, the compost and the leather

> >that will come. They are minimally worked as no way

> >has been found as yet to make any profit from their

> >work - in fact they make a loss. There is research

> >going on into how to make a profit, but at the moment

> >its viability is still lacking. If this were not the

> >case, not only would the cow department be supporting

> >the oxen it would also be subsidising a loss-making

> >business of ox-powered crops. What a better reason to

> >kill them, or not to work them.

>

>

> This is completely bogus... The cows for their requirements can feed

> themselves from barter of what they produce and the oxen can feed

themselves

> by their work. The Oxen can easily work the feild and produce enough feed

> for humans as well as for them selves. and when such feed for them is not

> required by season, they can grase. all of this cost practicaly nothing

when

> done simply.

> I logged all this winter with the oxen and they saved hundreds of dollars

in

> fire wood which would have laid in the forest rotting and the temple would

> have payed to get wood from an outside sorce.

> The oxen also cultivated the feild that brought in the majority of food "

> boga " into the temple and fed all residence.

> Extras, That were not endeavored for were sold to a few who gave more than

> enough to cover cost of seeds. (which can be saved when the plant

produces).

>

>

> >As Syam knows, I am not against ox-powered cropping

> >systems, in fact other than an agricultural systems

> >analyist and designer I would love to work oxen again,

> >as milking cows is not to my taste (having done both

> >for a short period of time). The thing is that if ox'

> >crops can not yield profit in the market place then

> >they will only yield a loss - and somehow that loss

> >has to be paid for.

>

>

> This is called in the dark....no logic... no experince...no show.

>

>

>

>

> >Now, as Protection Farms milk can

> >or can not be viable, so can its ox-powered crops.

>

>

> Which is being done already here.. Simply.. as well as other Iskcon farms.

> Maybe not the ideal,(working on it) but a hell of alot futher than I've

> heard from no show.

>

>

>

>

> >It is only by research and ultimately doing it that the

> >viability will be known, and if we fail then at least

> >we tried and maybe in the ash of the failure is the

> >seeds of true viability of what was missed before.

>

>

> This is already been done also; Everyone on this conference can vow for

> this..

>

>

>

> >We have to watch the socialist ease that is slipt

> >into, where everything needs a subsidy and support

> >from everything else. As I see it, each department -

> >the cows milk, the ox' crops, the agroforest, the

> >herd's compost and leather, the tourism, the cafè, the

> >added-value products - needs to survive as

> >independently from each other as possible. Otherwise

> >everything is being subsidised by everything else,

> >whilst none actually yield a profit and the system

> >collapses all together.

> >

> >So if we need to wait for enlightened Brahmans or for

> >ox' crops to yiels fruit, we could be waiting for the

> >cows to come home, which of course they won't do

> >´cause there won't be any.

>

> There is already instruction from the Krsna and from Prabhupada, your

> Ears and eyes are just closed, and mouth screaming that there is nothing..

>

>

> >Still at it, though I could be way off the mark -

> >though at least I tried,

> >Mark

>

>

>

> Still at nothing and way off the mark -

> If you just ask there is lots of help from the experienced of how to do it

> properly right here on this conference and access to other who also know.

>

>

> best of luck on the right path..

> Derek-

>

__________

> >

> >Get your free @.co.uk address at http://mail..co.uk

> >or your free @.ie address at http://mail..ie

>

> _______________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

>

>

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"Perform your prescribed duty, for action is better than inaction. A man

cannot even maintain his physical body without work. Work done as a

sacrifice to Vishnu has to be preformed, otherwise work binds one to this

material world. Therefore, 0 son of Kunti, perform your prescribed duties

for His satisfaction, and in that way you will always remain unattached and

freed from bondage." 3: 8-9

 

"One is understood to be in full knowledge whose every act is devoid of

desire for sense gratification. He is said by sages to be a worker whose

fruitive action is burned up by the fire of perfect knowledge. Abandoning

all attachment to the results of his activities, ever satisfied and

independent, he performs no fruitive action, although engaged in all kinds

of undertakings. Such a man of understanding acts with mind and intelligence

perfectly controlled, gives up all sense of proprietorship over his

possessions and acts only for the bare necessities of life. Thus working, he

is not affected by sinful reactions." 4: 19-21

 

"The steadily devoted soul attains unadulterated peace because he offers the

result of all activities to Me; whereas a person who is not in union with

the Divine, who is greedy for the fruits of his labor, becomes entangled."

5: 12

 

"One who is beyond duality and doubt, whose mind is engaged within, who is

always busy working for the welfare of all sentient beings and who is free

from all sins, achieves liberation in the Supreme." 5: 25

 

-

billy bob buckwheat <d_4h (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>

<markjon11 >; Cow (Protection and related issues)

<Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Wednesday, May 16, 2001 12:51 PM

Re: ox / crops need profit - otherwise?

 

 

>

>

>

> >Syam commented

> >

> > > Let us encourage the

> > > vaisya's to get rich by cow protection just as

> > > Krishna was rich by cow

> > > protection. Of course the get rich is not at the

> > > expense of the cows but by

> > > following strict protection principles alongside the

> > > economic development.

>

>

> ( show me a real vaisya)......

>

>

> > > I do not share the idea of mark chatburn of leading

> > > by milk production and

> > > getting the ox farms to catch up. I do share the

> > > concept completley that cow

> > > protection farming must make economic sense in

> > > giving its practitioners a

> > > good living.

>

> ( The protection of cows makes complete economic sense When you are

looking

> a depending " personaly" on the the products that the cows produce; This

is

> the only way the system works and that is why it is recomended that this

> goes hand in hand with simple natural vedic living.. It cannot be

> incorperated with industrial means nor anything that isn't as natural as

the

> cows, or as Krsna, "God" intended.

> Why must it make money? Money could help to start things off quicker

> initialy, because of transforming from suburbia life and conditioning to

> simple living will be a long educational matter. since everyone has not

> grown up learning the arts that would normaly be passed down. You can

> therefor purchase some simple equipment that could be remanufactured

easily.

> This way to perpechuate the simple way. And learn how to extract the means

> naturaly to replicate without industrial means. So it doesn't require that

> the cows make any money.

> They are making milk and yogart and gee and butter and dung for so many

> things and urea, and on and on.. They give us some things for susistence

and

> we in return protect them and keep them happily just as a family member.

>

>

> (therefor simplify). Prabhupada had a phrase; " If you grow all your own

> food, that is economic problem solved ".

> Another factor in this which dictates everything is the contiousness in

> which how this is gone about ( to get rich; or just simply live)

> It is said that someone who is very materialy rich is actualy very poor in

> the sense that attachments will haunt them. Many so called rich people are

> very miserable because they strived so hard for something that was great

to

> them and still can't seem to be satisfied.

>

> Some one who is Materialy poor you can see that they are simple and for

the

> most part happy. Some of the happiest countries in the world are the

poorest

> according to most standards.

> One would have to think that happiness is what might say wether one is

rich

> or poor...

> In vedic times, your wealth was measured by how many cows and stocks of

> grains you had. (not gold or money). Much bartering was the system.

>

> And highest of all- But some have lack of faith which is too damn bad,

> because it realy matters and you can see the results by that faith by how

> much one beleives that God; Krsna has a hand in on everything.

> The Godhead where Krsna resides is called "Go-loka", This means "cow

planet"

> or "planet of the cows" Vrindavan...

> So protecting cows main purpose is that they are worshipable, Just as much

> as the Deity in the temple. Each cow is a deity. When you properly take

care

> of the cows by loving them and depending on them as much as the exchange

of

> them depending on you.... Then something significant happens. <Krsna

> becomes pleased with this>... WHen God is pleased then he reciprocates to

> that extent and brings well being for those who have pleased him to the

> extent deserved.

>

> And for those who don't believe and do the wrong things to his most

beloved

> cows, and piss him off, he has many hells to punish such individuals. All

> this is stated in scripture.

>

>

>

>

> > > If the oxen are taken care of the milk side will

> > > make sense but not

> > > neccessarily the other way, as we have seen many

> > > times.

> >

> >Just a note here.

> >

> >If I remember rightly, Prabhupada said "if you do not

> >work the oxen you will want to kill them".

> >Now, I'm sure there are many reasons for this both

> >gross and subtle.

> >

> >Now, let's take the grossest one - $ reason.

> >

> >Imagine a protected herd of cows growing to mature

> >herd status, the oxen are minimally worked, their

> >maintenace is paid for (accounting for herd maturinty)

> >by the milk from the cows, the compost and the leather

> >that will come. They are minimally worked as no way

> >has been found as yet to make any profit from their

> >work - in fact they make a loss. There is research

> >going on into how to make a profit, but at the moment

> >its viability is still lacking. If this were not the

> >case, not only would the cow department be supporting

> >the oxen it would also be subsidising a loss-making

> >business of ox-powered crops. What a better reason to

> >kill them, or not to work them.

>

>

> This is completely bogus... The cows for their requirements can feed

> themselves from barter of what they produce and the oxen can feed

themselves

> by their work. The Oxen can easily work the feild and produce enough feed

> for humans as well as for them selves. and when such feed for them is not

> required by season, they can grase. all of this cost practicaly nothing

when

> done simply.

> I logged all this winter with the oxen and they saved hundreds of dollars

in

> fire wood which would have laid in the forest rotting and the temple would

> have payed to get wood from an outside sorce.

> The oxen also cultivated the feild that brought in the majority of food "

> boga " into the temple and fed all residence.

> Extras, That were not endeavored for were sold to a few who gave more than

> enough to cover cost of seeds. (which can be saved when the plant

produces).

>

>

> >As Syam knows, I am not against ox-powered cropping

> >systems, in fact other than an agricultural systems

> >analyist and designer I would love to work oxen again,

> >as milking cows is not to my taste (having done both

> >for a short period of time). The thing is that if ox'

> >crops can not yield profit in the market place then

> >they will only yield a loss - and somehow that loss

> >has to be paid for.

>

>

> This is called in the dark....no logic... no experince...no show.

>

>

>

>

> >Now, as Protection Farms milk can

> >or can not be viable, so can its ox-powered crops.

>

>

> Which is being done already here.. Simply.. as well as other Iskcon farms.

> Maybe not the ideal,(working on it) but a hell of alot futher than I've

> heard from no show.

>

>

>

>

> >It is only by research and ultimately doing it that the

> >viability will be known, and if we fail then at least

> >we tried and maybe in the ash of the failure is the

> >seeds of true viability of what was missed before.

>

>

> This is already been done also; Everyone on this conference can vow for

> this..

>

>

>

> >We have to watch the socialist ease that is slipt

> >into, where everything needs a subsidy and support

> >from everything else. As I see it, each department -

> >the cows milk, the ox' crops, the agroforest, the

> >herd's compost and leather, the tourism, the cafè, the

> >added-value products - needs to survive as

> >independently from each other as possible. Otherwise

> >everything is being subsidised by everything else,

> >whilst none actually yield a profit and the system

> >collapses all together.

> >

> >So if we need to wait for enlightened Brahmans or for

> >ox' crops to yiels fruit, we could be waiting for the

> >cows to come home, which of course they won't do

> >´cause there won't be any.

>

> There is already instruction from the Krsna and from Prabhupada, your

> Ears and eyes are just closed, and mouth screaming that there is nothing..

>

>

> >Still at it, though I could be way off the mark -

> >though at least I tried,

> >Mark

>

>

>

> Still at nothing and way off the mark -

> If you just ask there is lots of help from the experienced of how to do it

> properly right here on this conference and access to other who also know.

>

>

> best of luck on the right path..

> Derek-

>

__________

> >

> >Get your free @.co.uk address at http://mail..co.uk

> >or your free @.ie address at http://mail..ie

>

> _______________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

>

>

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Share on other sites

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2. A Description of Spiritual Economics

Considering the verses above we note the following:

a. These are instructions for production.

A person must always be engaged in some activity.

[never be attached to not doing your duty, (2.47); Perform your

prescribed duty, (3.8); always busy working for the welfare of all sentient

beings, (5.25)].

 

b. The results of our activity do not belong to us.

[...you are not entitled to the fruits of action, (2.47); Those who want to

enjoy the fruits of their work are misers, (2:49); The wise engaged in

devotional service..., free themselves from the cycle of birth and death by

renouncing the fruits of action in the material world, (2.50; Abandoning all

attachment to the results of his activities, (4:20); gives up all sense of

proprietorship over his possessions, (4.21)].

 

If we take this literally, it means that we give up all claims to the fruits

of action as our possessions even for the purpose of selling or trading

them. Where do they go then?

 

c. These are instructions for distribution.

The fruits of our actions are to be given freely to others.

 

[One who is beyond duality and doubt...is always busy working for the

welfare of all sentient beings, (5.25)]

 

Just as in the temple we perform our service without consideration as to who

receives the benefit, so it is within Spiritual Economics but in a different

setting.

 

 

d. These are the instructions for the consciousness of our activity.

Our activities should be performed in the spirit of devotional service,

for by working in such consciousness we will be satisfied.

 

[Work done as a sacrifice for Vishnu has to be performed,...perform your

prescribed duties for His satisfaction, (3.9); The steadily devoted soul

attains unadulterated peace because he offers the result of all activities

to Me, (5.12)].

 

e. We should act only for the bare necessities of life. [such a man of

understanding acts with mind and intelligence perfectly controlled,.., acts

only for the bare necessities of life. (4.21)]

 

These verses describe an entire economic system which will lead to our

perfection and qualify them to enter into Vaikuntha as described above.

Beyond that, the characteristics of Spiritual Economics would have a wide

influence over the quality of life on this planet. Let's see what that might

be.

 

3. The Characteristics of Spiritual Economics

a. The Concept of Abundance

Just as material economics are based upon the material conceptions of life,

Spiritual Economics is based upon spiritual conceptions of life. One of the

wonderful qualities of spiritual activities is that there can be no material

impediment to them, therefore, they are always available. As such in

Spiritual Economics the conception of abundance replaces the concept of

scarcity so there will never be problems of lack and scarcity which are so

prevalent in the world today.

 

Under Spiritual Economics the economic unit is not a producing / consuming

machine, but an individual spiritually conscious living entity whose

satisfaction is not derived from material sense gratification but from

devotional service to the Lord. As such, consumption of earthly resources is

'minimized because more than the minimum is simply not desired or required

by the humble Krishna conscious person as it is to fill the inflated ego of

the materialist. Reducing the environmental impact of the human species upon

the earth is thereby easily achieved without complex legislation or

policing.

 

b. The Concept of Giving

In Spiritual Economics the main feature is that everything is achieved BY

GIVING AND NOT BY GETTING: First of all there can be no "getting," as we

understand that Krishna is the supreme proprietor. Without His consent what

is our power of getting? However, every living being has something to give,

which is their energy in devotional service. Giving finds its perfection in

devotional service, which is reciprocated in loving relationships.

 

This is demonstrated by the fact that Lord Krishna first of all gives to us

all that is required for our sustenance - this earth and its elements, the

air, sunshine, rain, even our ability, intelligence, and so on. In

devotional service we reciprocate with the Lord by giving back to Him those

same things transformed, as in food, clothing for the Deity, temples for his

worship, and other things created in the spirit of devotional service. This

reciprocal service culminates in the highest treasure of all- pure love of

God. As this unalloyed devotional service matures, Lord Krishna gives

Himself to His devotee and the devotee gives himself to the Lord. This

loving exchange is the eternal activity of the spiritually perfected souls

who reside in the spiritual world.

 

Under Spiritual Economics this reciprocation goes on between the

participants as well, each engaged in the service of their choice, but

giving the results to others freely and accepting in return those things

which they require for living.

 

Life's real pleasure is giving and not getting, but our present economic

structure has made this natural pleasure so difficult to perform that we see

ourselves developing into selfish people. So if we consciously reform the

economic system in such a way to produce the environment which promotes the

pleasure of giving, naturally this will awaken the spiritual values in the

hearts of men, ultimately finding fulfillment in giving to Krishna, and to

all around us.

 

b. Service as Spiritual Currency

Just as material economics has a currency, so does Spiritual Economics. But

the currency in Spiritual Economics is of a spiritual character. The

currency is service. It is not something separate from the economic unit,

therefore there is no anxiety in acquiring it. Nor is it at all limited in

supply. Quite the contrary it is unlimited. In fact, the more one uses

spiritual currency, the more one will have, as demonstrated by Lord

Chaitanya and His associates: "Although the members of the Pancha-tattva

plundered the storehouse of love of Godhead and ate and distributed its

contents, there was no scarcity, for this wonderful storehouse is so

complete that as the love is distributed, the supply increases hundreds of

times." Cc, Adi 7.24

 

c. Happiness is a Result of Maximized Service

The individual economic units are most happy and satisfied when they are

able to maximize their level of devotional service. Free from the influence

of the deluding potency, maya, it is natural to do so, and they as

individuals and society as a collective whole will both achieve maximum

benefit by orienting the economy toward this understanding. People can be

peaceful and secure when they know that they will be taken care of, and can

then focus on giving their service.

 

d. Krishna is the Supreme Proprietor

Further, since Krishna is the Supreme Proprietor of everything, in Spiritual

Economics the participants do not claim proprietorship over anything.

Therefore, intense competition to become the biggest enjoyer, artificially

increasing lust and envy is eliminated, and all persons who participate in

such an economic system can live in cooperation, free from envy, strife,

class struggle and political upheaval.

 

Considering that the main feature of all families who live under one roof is

that there is no buying and selling between them, but sharing according to

the need of each, then in showing the way of devotional service which

includes Spiritual Economics, Srila Prabhupada has made us all one family

that can dwell peacefully in one house a house in which the whole world can

live.

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Dear Prabhu's

 

Hare Krishna. PAMHO AGTSP.

 

There are many spriritualy pointing comments beingmade on this topic.

Thankyou all.

 

It is natural that if one does not have a wife with family needs the world

will be seen in a very different way than if one has a householder

viewpoint.

 

Householder dharma is to support the family.

 

Brahmana cow protectors will should be able to live the simpler model.

 

We as conference participants are meant I preswume to discuss and come to

understanding or even many understandings how people of the world can take

our message of cow protection seriously.

 

For a moment let us all accept that it is understood by members on this

conference that the goal of life is to GBH BTG and not to grow a potato by

an ox. Let us not insult intelligence by assuming a different understanding.

 

Now for the benefit of the greater world who read are books about simple

living what is our practical contribution to a married man who has to

support his family. Do we only have a batchelor or brahmacari farm model. So

far it seams that is all we have, or at least that is what is predominantly

prsented by many of the major contributers.

 

For a moment put aside the idealistic dreams. Put your realistic hat on and

ask yourself how much monetary requirement would I have if I am a

householder. Now if you are mainly a cow protector then the money you need

must come from your cows somehow, otherwise you are a pet keeper who has an

alternative means of income. When Krishna lost his cows he was lamenting

that he had lost his very means of livelihood. A practical point for us is

that until we can establish a system of cow protection that the adherents

are economically dependant on the cows and oxen for their livelihoods it

will not be taken up by householders. This we can see is the present

scenario.

 

Realisticaly and practically we must be able to present a model of cow

protection and Ox farming that family men can do. This is a society meant to

make o contribution to the world. That contribution for us on this

conference means we must be able to help people to make a livelihood by

utilising the cow and ox in a devotional and realistic financial sustainable

way.

 

So far we have many examples of dedicated devotional devotees. Yet we need

dedicated devotional economically bouyent cow protectors and ox famers.

 

Thankyou Pancaratna for focusing our minds on these very important and

fundamental issues.

 

ys syam

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