Guest guest Posted June 20, 2001 Report Share Posted June 20, 2001 Please accept my obiesances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada. What breed are you using to plow with? There maybe a breed that is more suited to that type of work, that can work at a faster pace or that maybe more economical to maintain. ys, Rohita dasa - Pancaratna ACBSP <Pancaratna.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net> Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net> Wednesday, June 20, 2001 3:50 AM Oxen plowing > Dandavad. Prabhupada kijaya! > > Here in Mayapur area, a team of bullocks can plow only a little more than > .36 acre per day at a cost of Rs. 450 per acre compared to a tractor which > can do about 13 acres a day at a cost of Rs. 180 per acre. > > The speed of the tractor is one of the major disincentives for using oxen on > the ISKCON land. THey say they just do not have the manpower and time to use > bullocks and get the large amount of land plowed in time. > > Can anyone here give me some similar numbers for western oxen? > > Your servant, > Pancaratna das > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2001 Report Share Posted June 21, 2001 What was the reason for the cost in plowing with the oxen?? a day ago I plowed a quarter of an acre with 2 holstines and it took about an hour and a half with long breaks. Derek-Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2001 Report Share Posted June 22, 2001 Dear Derek, Sorry your message was not clear. who are you addressing your question too and what exactly are you asking? ys syam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2001 Report Share Posted June 23, 2001 In New Talavan because of the sandy nature of our soil we normally disk, usually two or three times, when we do plow (usually only on land that has not been worked in a few seasons) a moldboard plow is used (three blades). Just prior to planting we harrow and cultipak (after seeding). Large acreages are done when establishing perennial pastures (50 - 100 acres), otherwise small acreages are done throughout the year according to crop. All this is very much suited to single teams or a solo animal. Unfortunately, we have many animals that could be trained and about eight persons with more than a years worth of experience each, a handful of people have worked animals for more than three years, but there are no teams working at present. We do have a Gyr/InduBrazil ox who is used to pull a manure sled occasionally. Everyone needs to support their families and have no time for oxen. We do have a vegetable garden (3 1/2 acres) but it is all done by tractor. - Taraka (das) ACBSP (Gita Nagari, PA - USA) <Taraka.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net> Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net> Friday, June 22, 2001 1:52 PM Oxen plowing > Pamho. AgtSP. > > A few weeks back Bhakta Derek and I were speaking to Sarva Sidhi Ratha dasa, > a teamster from many years back. He indicated that he used to easily plow > one acre per day with a walking plow and a single team of oxen. He didn't > mention which breed. For only one team of oxen to do the work, there would > have to be lots of breaks. > > Seems to me it's important to understand some things about plowing. There > are many different types of plowing and many different implements to plow > with. Depending upon the crop to be planted, plowing of a certain type is > necessary, or perhaps no plowing is necessary. In some cases simply > harrowing is sufficient. Implements for harrowing or shallow plowing > typically cover a wider track for a given ox-power than say a single bottom > plow that cuts deeply. There are various reasons for plowing such as: > turning under organic material to enrich the soil, aeration of the soil, > loosening compacted soil, elimination of weeds, etc. If you were planting a > deep rooted crop in compacted soil, you would need to plow deeply. If the > soil was regularly worked and relatively loose, it might not need plowing > and it might be sufficient to disc or harrow for weed control or to > establish planting furrows. Deep plowing is hard work for the oxen. A > multi-bottom plow might require several teams of oxen to pull, but it would > plow a wider swath. A disc or harrow which do not cut deeply, are easily > pulled by a single team and also cover a wide swath. So there are lots of > factors to take into account. You need to know about your crop and the soil. > Too often I see farmers who routinely plow deeply because they don't know > any better. Often it is unnecessary and sometimes counter-productive. If you > plow in such a way that organic matter is turned deeply into the soil but > your crop is shallow rooted, the plants will never be able to take advantage > of the material you turned into the soil. It will never get used until you > plant a deep rooted crop. Tilling the soil to loosen it and to control weeds > is often necessary before planting, but tilling does not necessarily mean > plowing. > > What are the soil conditions in Mayapura? Does it really require plowing? > What are the crops? What is the depth of their roots? I think in most cases > simply harrowing would be sufficient and this is easy work which does not > take nearly as long as plowing in most cases. > > Hare Krsna. > Your servant, > Taraka dasa > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2001 Report Share Posted June 24, 2001 > What breed are you using to plow with? I don;t know. THese are local farmers bullocks not mine. They look like the white "brahman" cows mostly. They also usae buffaloes, but I'm not sure if they get any better coverage. > There maybe a breed that is more suited to that type of work, that can > work at a faster pace or that maybe more economical to maintain. Ramanuja's experience seems to indicate this. When I return to Mayapur ( I am now enroute to the US) I'll explore this further. Your servant, Pancaratna das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2001 Report Share Posted June 25, 2001 Thankyou for those figures regarding your rice growing. What is the value of the straw and husk from your land? ys Syamasundara dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2001 Report Share Posted June 25, 2001 Pancaratna ACBSP wrote: > > Regarding the costs of tractor ploughing in mayapur land. Does that figure > > take into account purchase price, maintenance, loss of value etc. Is the > > cost of tractors subsidised in some way? > > No, the tractors are not subsidized, but the diesel fuel is cheaper than > petrol. It is not really subsidized, but it is not so heavily taxed. > > These are prices from local tractor owners who rent their services, so I > assume they have factored in all the purchase price, etc. > > > > > If the figures are a true comparison then what is the plan to give the > > oxen back their value. > > > > Is it possible for the mayapur management to buy into ox power by paying > > more for their food if produced from oxen. > > Everything is possible in this world, but there is no indication they are > eager to do this. But there is also the problem of getting all the ISKCON > land plowed quickly. At sowing time, the local teamsters are all working, so > unless ISKCON develops its own large crew of teamsters and also keeps > sufficient oxen, it is difficult to plow the ISKCON land by oxen. > > > I remember in mayapur this year the goshalla manager informed me that they > > were breeding 60 cows per year and as you know this means over 20 years > > there will probably be about 600 male oxen of which about 400 will be > > workeable. > > > > How does mayapur plan to utilise all these oxen if the land is being > > farmed by tractors?. > > They don't. THe only plan right now is to give them away. If they do not carefully follow the regulations of ISKCON law 507 when they give these bull calves away, how can we avoid the conclusion that they are God damned cheaters? How can we avoid that conclusion? Perhaps, somehow, they are determined to break with their past shameful record and make certain, and very carefully make certain that each bull calf they give away will be trained, worked and properly cared for, for many long productive years. Perhaps that dramatic change is coming. That would be a lot to ask, given their bad record so far. But it would be a remarkable sign of hope, a remarkable example for other temples. But, on the other hand, there is a great possibility that if such determination is weak or non-existent, the bull calves will be abused and many of them possibly killed within a couple years. If that happens, if the 30 bulls produced in the coming year -- those 30 bulls representing Dharma, the Personality of Religion -- if those animals are abused, then it is certain that the Mayapur project will undergo a period of great infamy, at least as bad as that undergone by New Vrndavana. When Krsna's bulls and cows are abused, how is it possible that there will be peace, prosperity and fame to the institution responsible for that abuse? Where, in all of Srila Prabhupada's writings, is there anything that says that neglectful abuse of the cow and the bull will bring good fortune? your servant, Hare Krsna dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2001 Report Share Posted June 25, 2001 Dear Prabhu, I am taking the liberty to write you directly. I wrote Chayadevi in detail about what I have seen during an investigation with Peta ,as to what happens to milk producing cows. ( what to speak of bulls) Also attaching a story/ view by a well known columnist in India about how necessary it is to give farmers tractors,. A poor farmer can get a few thousand rupees for a cow. 30, 00 heads of cattle are marched into Bangladesh- illegally every day. Mayapur is so close to the border area It is revolting ,as you said too,that the establishment is so callous. I guarantee you - your conclusion that these bulls are sold off for leather or meat is absolutely correct. Recently the border agencies confirmed this figure which animal rights people have been putting forth for many years. And this is happening in the dham. You are a well respected authority on cow protection -its good that you continue to write strongly. I just got in the cow conference and don't want to come out on the open because my husband Adri is public enemy no 1. ( as you probably know) Myself I am too turned off- and have been so for many years before the genesis of this whole issue- to be involved within the society. At least in this part of the world. But I feel strongly that this sort of hypocrisy must stop or at least those of us who remain committed to Srila Prabhupada's legacy should work towards ensuring some standard of cow protection . Ys Nirguna Dasi. - Noma T. Petroff <npetroff (AT) bowdoin (DOT) edu> Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net> Monday, June 25, 2001 8:03 PM Re: Oxen plowing > > > Pancaratna ACBSP wrote: > > > > Regarding the costs of tractor ploughing in mayapur land. Does that figure > > > take into account purchase price, maintenance, loss of value etc. Is the > > > cost of tractors subsidised in some way? > > > > No, the tractors are not subsidized, but the diesel fuel is cheaper than > > petrol. It is not really subsidized, but it is not so heavily taxed. > > > > These are prices from local tractor owners who rent their services, so I > > assume they have factored in all the purchase price, etc. > > > > > > > > If the figures are a true comparison then what is the plan to give the > > > oxen back their value. > > > > > > Is it possible for the mayapur management to buy into ox power by paying > > > more for their food if produced from oxen. > > > > Everything is possible in this world, but there is no indication they are > > eager to do this. But there is also the problem of getting all the ISKCON > > land plowed quickly. At sowing time, the local teamsters are all working, so > > unless ISKCON develops its own large crew of teamsters and also keeps > > sufficient oxen, it is difficult to plow the ISKCON land by oxen. > > > > > I remember in mayapur this year the goshalla manager informed me that they > > > were breeding 60 cows per year and as you know this means over 20 years > > > there will probably be about 600 male oxen of which about 400 will be > > > workeable. > > > > > > How does mayapur plan to utilise all these oxen if the land is being > > > farmed by tractors?. > > > > They don't. THe only plan right now is to give them away. > > If they do not carefully follow the regulations of ISKCON law 507 when they > give > these bull calves away, how can we avoid the conclusion that they are God > damned > cheaters? How can we avoid that conclusion? > > Perhaps, somehow, they are determined to break with their past shameful record > and make certain, and very carefully make certain that each bull calf they give > away will be trained, worked and properly cared for, for many long productive > years. Perhaps that dramatic change is coming. That would be a lot to ask, > given their bad record so far. But it would be a remarkable sign of hope, a > remarkable example for other temples. > > But, on the other hand, there is a great possibility that if such determination > is weak or non-existent, the bull calves will be abused and many of them > possibly killed within a couple years. If that happens, if the 30 bulls > produced in the coming year -- those 30 bulls representing Dharma, the > Personality of Religion -- if those animals are abused, then it is certain that > the Mayapur project will undergo a period of great infamy, at least as bad as > that undergone by New Vrndavana. When Krsna's bulls and cows are abused, how > is > it possible that there will be peace, prosperity and fame to the institution > responsible for that abuse? Where, in all of Srila Prabhupada's writings, is > there anything that says that neglectful abuse of the cow and the bull will > bring good fortune? > > your servant, > > Hare Krsna dasi > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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