Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 If it is easiest to establish cow protection in India -- then how has it come to pass that ISKCON Vrndavana appears to have absolutely the very worst record for cow protection of all ISKCON's projects around the world? It will take a lot more to convince me that India is better than any other place to start cow protection. Even with dozens of ISKCON sannyasis visiting Vrndavana every year -- not one single one of them would stand up at a GBC meeting in Mayapura and say, "The situation of the goshalla at ISKCON Vrndavana is scandalous. Dozens of bulls are missing over the years. After having been requested 4 years ago to provide even a simple list of all names of cows, bulls and their ages to the ISKCON minister of cow protection and agriculture, ISKCON Vrndavana dragged its feet for years -- I do not know if they have even complied yet. I believe that in defiance to ISKCON's Minimum Cow Protection Standards, ISKCON Vrndavana is still breeding cows primarily for milk and not with the plan of training resulting bull calves to work. This always means eventual slaughter of the bull calves. Any sannyasi who has overseen such a debacle should not even be allowed to initiate disciples, because he has no understanding of the importance of cow protection for spiritual advancement." I think Bhakti-tirtha Maharaja was the only sannyasi to at all speak up against the mess in Vrndavana. Maybe there were one or two others that I don't know about. Why don't sannyasis even speak up against blatant cases of abuse? If it was an instance of someone distributing competing religious literature at ISKCON Vrndavana -- all would have stood up and objected. But if it's a case of a sannyasi overseeing a project which practices blatant cow abuse -- all keep their mouths shut so as not to jeopadize Indian donations. A sannyasi should be an emblem of truth -- if he hushes up the truth because it is unpleasant, how is he qualified to wear saffron? Someone has mentioned a sannyasi who is living up at Saranagati as an advocate of cow protection. Saranagati seems like a very bad example. The last I heard, Saranagati was still accepting several thousand dollars worth of tax exemptions each year for grazing beef cattle. The last I heard, there were no working oxen in Saranagati. How does that equal a sannyasi who is an advocate of cow protection? Just because I live in a rural community and don't eat hamburger does not automatically make me an advocate of cow protection. An advocate of cow protection is someone who tries to protect the cows and engage the oxen in Krsna's service. An advocate of cow protection is someone who speaks up quite loudly when cows are being abused on other ISKCON projects. An advocate of cow protection would follow ISKCON's Minimum Cow Protection Standards. I know quite well that capitalism is the enemy of cow protection or even small-scale farming. But if we have the funds to build fantastic ornate temples, then we should have the funds to provide training and land to devotees who want to farm for Krsna. We should build a system which will shelter them from the market economy. It's definitely a matter of priorities. And it is our sannyasis who set the priorities for our society. How many of them even have a once-a-week reading from the Prabhupada varnasrama book in their temples? Someone who is not interested in Prabhupada's instructions on varnasrama will have a hard time being interested in cow protection. But finally, I must say that I have not kept up on everything that all sannyasis everywhere in the world are doing. Just because I'm not hearing things does not mean there are no loud voices opposing cow abuse in ISKCON, and advocating cow protection in ISKCON. Part of the reason why I'm writing this is just for that reason -- so that the Ministry of Cow Protection and Agriculture -- or any other devotee can say -- "No, you missed this sannyasi -- here is an ideal advocate against cow abuse and for practical cow protection." I *do* want to hear their names and activities. your servant, Hare Krsna dasi Rajaram Venkataramani wrote: > hare krishna. please accept my humble obeisances. > > economically it is easier to subsidize cow protection in india. even > politically, there is more votes in india for cow protection than the > rest of the world. as it is today, thanks to the efforts of > sankaracharyas, banning cow slaughter has become a hot political issue > in india. it is easier to win public support for cow protection in > india. instead of building farms all over the world, if the resources > are conserved and spent in india, it will be possible to create many > farms. it will also be possible to get government grants as the > vajpayee govt has this on its agenda. > > once these models are established, then the movement can spread to the > rest of the world as a model for animal protection with the help of > secular organizations. > > my 2 cents worth. > > yours humbly > > rajaram v > > > ----- > > Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site -- Noma Petroff Academic Department Coordinator BOWDOIN COLLEGE Department of Theater & Dance 9100 College Station Brunswick ME 04011-8491 Phone: (207) 725-3663 FAX: (207) 725-3372 http://academic.bowdoin.edu/theaterdance/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 Rajaram is not referring to an ISKCON situation. He is referring to the many, many projects in non ISKCON India that are protecting thousands upon thousands of cows. And the many Indian residents who have fought the attempt to legalize cow slaughter in India succesfully putting a stop to it. In other words there is much support for cow protection in India even though there exists atrocities to cows as exposed by PETA. As far as the ISKCON realm, I think I have given that a general description in my last letter. But by far there is a lack of understanding of what is cow protection. It is almost like it is a completely foreign subject. Whereas book distribution, Diety worship, seems to find its comfortable, recognizable place in the movement. Our personal feelings are that education through literature, training, classes, seminars, etc. will raise the awareness. But this takes organized effort and time is money. There has to be some support system to those who are doing this. Only a united force will have the potency. As far as the Vrndavana situation, it is quite complex with a change in management insituted ony recently. A work in progress. Of course the more leaders who speak their concern to the care of the cows in Vrndavana the more attention will be given. Your servant, Chayadevi - Noma T. Petroff <npetroff (AT) bowdoin (DOT) edu> Rajaram Venkataramani <v_raja_ram > Cc: Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; Prahladananda Swami <Prahladananda.Swami (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; Ananta <Ananta (AT) pamho (DOT) net> Thursday, November 14, 2002 10:36 AM Re: economics & politics of cow protection > If it is easiest to establish cow protection in India -- then how has it > come to pass that ISKCON Vrndavana appears to have absolutely the very > worst record for cow protection of all ISKCON's projects around the > world? > > It will take a lot more to convince me that India is better than any > other place to start cow protection. > > Even with dozens of ISKCON sannyasis visiting Vrndavana every year -- > not one single one of them would stand up at a GBC meeting in Mayapura > and say, "The situation of the goshalla at ISKCON Vrndavana is > scandalous. Dozens of bulls are missing over the years. After having > been requested 4 years ago to provide even a simple list of all names of > cows, bulls and their ages to the ISKCON minister of cow protection and > agriculture, ISKCON Vrndavana dragged its feet for years -- I do not > know if they have even complied yet. I believe that in defiance to > ISKCON's Minimum Cow Protection Standards, ISKCON Vrndavana is still > breeding cows primarily for milk and not with the plan of training > resulting bull calves to work. This always means eventual slaughter of > the bull calves. Any sannyasi who has overseen such a debacle should not > even be allowed to initiate disciples, because he has no understanding > of the importance of cow protection for spiritual advancement." I think > Bhakti-tirtha Maharaja was the only sannyasi to at all speak up against > the mess in Vrndavana. Maybe there were one or two others that I don't > know about. > > Why don't sannyasis even speak up against blatant cases of abuse? If it > was an instance of someone distributing competing religious literature > at ISKCON Vrndavana -- all would have stood up and objected. But if > it's a case of a sannyasi overseeing a project which practices blatant > cow abuse -- all keep their mouths shut so as not to jeopadize Indian > donations. A sannyasi should be an emblem of truth -- if he hushes up > the truth because it is unpleasant, how is he qualified to wear saffron? > > Someone has mentioned a sannyasi who is living up at Saranagati as an > advocate of cow protection. Saranagati seems like a very bad example. > The last I heard, Saranagati was still accepting several thousand > dollars worth of tax exemptions each year for grazing beef cattle. The > last I heard, there were no working oxen in Saranagati. How does that > equal a sannyasi who is an advocate of cow protection? Just because I > live in a rural community and don't eat hamburger does not automatically > make me an advocate of cow protection. > > An advocate of cow protection is someone who tries to protect the cows > and engage the oxen in Krsna's service. An advocate of cow protection > is someone who speaks up quite loudly when cows are being abused on > other ISKCON projects. An advocate of cow protection would follow > ISKCON's Minimum Cow Protection Standards. > > I know quite well that capitalism is the enemy of cow protection or even > small-scale farming. But if we have the funds to build fantastic ornate > temples, then we should have the funds to provide training and land to > devotees who want to farm for Krsna. We should build a system which > will shelter them from the market economy. It's definitely a matter of > priorities. And it is our sannyasis who set the priorities for our > society. > > How many of them even have a once-a-week reading from the Prabhupada > varnasrama book in their temples? Someone who is not interested in > Prabhupada's instructions on varnasrama will have a hard time being > interested in cow protection. > > But finally, I must say that I have not kept up on everything that all > sannyasis everywhere in the world are doing. Just because I'm not > hearing things does not mean there are no loud voices opposing cow abuse > in ISKCON, and advocating cow protection in ISKCON. Part of the reason > why I'm writing this is just for that reason -- so that the Ministry of > Cow Protection and Agriculture -- or any other devotee can say -- "No, > you missed this sannyasi -- here is an ideal advocate against cow abuse > and for practical cow protection." I *do* want to hear their names and > activities. > > your servant, > > Hare Krsna dasi > > Rajaram Venkataramani wrote: > > > hare krishna. please accept my humble obeisances. > > > > economically it is easier to subsidize cow protection in india. even > > politically, there is more votes in india for cow protection than the > > rest of the world. as it is today, thanks to the efforts of > > sankaracharyas, banning cow slaughter has become a hot political issue > > in india. it is easier to win public support for cow protection in > > india. instead of building farms all over the world, if the resources > > are conserved and spent in india, it will be possible to create many > > farms. it will also be possible to get government grants as the > > vajpayee govt has this on its agenda. > > > > once these models are established, then the movement can spread to the > > rest of the world as a model for animal protection with the help of > > secular organizations. > > > > my 2 cents worth. > > > > yours humbly > > > > rajaram v > > > > > > ----- > > > > Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site > > -- > Noma Petroff > Academic Department Coordinator > BOWDOIN COLLEGE > Department of Theater & Dance > 9100 College Station > Brunswick ME 04011-8491 > > Phone: (207) 725-3663 > FAX: (207) 725-3372 > > http://academic.bowdoin.edu/theaterdance/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2002 Report Share Posted November 15, 2002 as chaya mataji put it i was referring to general public support. in the western countries there are more concerned about animal rights in general as is evident from support for peta etc. but there is little understanding of the value of cow protection. this is quite understandable as cow protection is considered more a religious duty. if people were economically dependant on cows as in farms, then it would be a moral responsibility which would attract wider audience. that is why it is important to build self sufficient villages with cow protection as the theme in india. but the problem in india is that people have less integrity on an average and they will kill the project. if westerners and indians together manage cow protection in india, we will get the benefit of western professionalism combined with indian cost advantages. what i have in mind is a rough plan like this. a western family (in the us/europe) and an indian family (settled in an indian village) should together manage a optimum no. of cows (and a few other domestic animals) in india. western family would get the support of animal rights activists in their country to support the project while the indian family may focus on preaching in india so that very soon there is sufficient local support. once there is enough models, this can be expanded to the rest of the third world and then the whole world. my initial idea is that the smallest unit can be 5000 $ per month, which can be raised easily in the us / europe through non-profit organizations. if more money is raised then more indian families would survive by protecting cows and preaching. "ISCOWP (Balabhadra Dasa & Chaya Dasi - USA)" <ISCOWP (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote:Rajaram is not referring to an ISKCON situation. He is referring to the many, many projects in non ISKCON India that are protecting thousands upon thousands of cows. And the many Indian residents who have fought the attempt to legalize cow slaughter in India succesfully putting a stop to it. In other words there is much support for cow protection in India even though there exists atrocities to cows as exposed by PETA. As far as the ISKCON realm, I think I have given that a general description in my last letter. But by far there is a lack of understanding of what is cow protection. It is almost like it is a completely foreign subject. Whereas book distribution, Diety worship, seems to find its comfortable, recognizable place in the movement. Our personal feelings are that education through literature, training, classes, seminars, etc. will raise the awareness. But this takes organized effort and time is money. There has to be some support system to those who are doing this. Only a united force will have the potency. As far as the Vrndavana situation, it is quite complex with a change in management insituted ony recently. A work in progress. Of course the more leaders who speak their concern to the care of the cows in Vrndavana the more attention will be given. Your servant, Chayadevi - Noma T. Petroff Rajaram Venkataramani Cc: Cow (Protection and related issues) ; Prahladananda Swami ; Ananta Thursday, November 14, 2002 10:36 AM Re: economics & politics of cow protection > If it is easiest to establish cow protection in India -- then how has it > come to pass that ISKCON Vrndavana appears to have absolutely the very > worst record for cow protection of all ISKCON's projects around the > world? > > It will take a lot more to convince me that India is better than any > other place to start cow protection. > > Even with dozens of ISKCON sannyasis visiting Vrndavana every year -- > not one single one of them would stand up at a GBC meeting in Mayapura > and say, "The situation of the goshalla at ISKCON Vrndavana is > scandalous. Dozens of bulls are missing over the years. After having > been requested 4 years ago to provide even a simple list of all names of > cows, bulls and their ages to the ISKCON minister of cow protection and > agriculture, ISKCON Vrndavana dragged its feet for years -- I do not > know if they have even complied yet. I believe that in defiance to > ISKCON's Minimum Cow Protection Standards, ISKCON Vrndavana is still > breeding cows primarily for milk and not with the plan of training > resulting bull calves to work. This always means eventual slaughter of > the bull calves. Any sannyasi who has overseen such a debacle should not > even be allowed to initiate disciples, because he has no understanding > of the importance of cow protection for spiritual advancement." I think > Bhakti-tirtha Maharaja was the only sannyasi to at all speak up against > the mess in Vrndavana. Maybe there were one or two others that I don't > know about. > > Why don't sannyasis even speak up against blatant cases of abuse? If it > was an instance of someone distributing competing religious literature > at ISKCON Vrndavana -- all would have stood up and objected. But if > it's a case of a sannyasi overseeing a project which practices blatant > cow abuse -- all keep their mouths shut so as not to jeopadize Indian > donations. A sannyasi should be an emblem of truth -- if he hushes up > the truth because it is unpleasant, how is he qualified to wear saffron? > > Someone has mentioned a sannyasi who is living up at Saranagati as an > advocate of cow protection. Saranagati seems like a very bad example. > The last I heard, Saranagati was still accepting several thousand > dollars worth of tax exemptions each year for grazing beef cattle. The > last I heard, there were no working oxen in Saranagati. How does that > equal a sannyasi who is an advocate of cow protection? Just because I > live in a rural community and don't eat hamburger does not automatically > make me an advocate of cow protection. > > An advocate of cow protection is someone who tries to protect the cows > and engage the oxen in Krsna's service. An advocate of cow protection > is someone who speaks up quite loudly when cows are being abused on > other ISKCON projects. An advocate of cow protection would follow > ISKCON's Minimum Cow Protection Standards. > > I know quite well that capitalism is the enemy of cow protection or even > small-scale farming. But if we have the funds to build fantastic ornate > temples, then we should have the funds to provide training and land to > devotees who want to farm for Krsna. We should build a system which > will shelter them from the market economy. It's definitely a matter of > priorities. And it is our sannyasis who set the priorities for our > society. > > How many of them even have a once-a-week reading from the Prabhupada > varnasrama book in their temples? Someone who is not interested in > Prabhupada's instructions on varnasrama will have a hard time being > interested in cow protection. > > But finally, I must say that I have not kept up on everything that all > sannyasis everywhere in the world are doing. Just because I'm not > hearing things does not mean there are no loud voices opposing cow abuse > in ISKCON, and advocating cow protection in ISKCON. Part of the reason > why I'm writing this is just for that reason -- so that the Ministry of > Cow Protection and Agriculture -- or any other devotee can say -- "No, > you missed this sannyasi -- here is an ideal advocate against cow abuse > and for practical cow protection." I *do* want to hear their names and > activities. > > your servant, > > Hare Krsna dasi > > Rajaram Venkataramani wrote: > > > hare krishna. please accept my humble obeisances. > > > > economically it is easier to subsidize cow protection in india. even > > politically, there is more votes in india for cow protection than the > > rest of the world. as it is today, thanks to the efforts of > > sankaracharyas, banning cow slaughter has become a hot political issue > > in india. it is easier to win public support for cow protection in > > india. instead of building farms all over the world, if the resources > > are conserved and spent in india, it will be possible to create many > > farms. it will also be possible to get government grants as the > > vajpayee govt has this on its agenda. > > > > once these models are established, then the movement can spread to the > > rest of the world as a model for animal protection with the help of > > secular organizations. > > > > my 2 cents worth. > > > > yours humbly > > > > rajaram v > > > > > > ----- > > > > Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site > > -- > Noma Petroff > Academic Department Coordinator > BOWDOIN COLLEGE > Department of Theater & Dance > 9100 College Station > Brunswick ME 04011-8491 > > Phone: (207) 725-3663 > FAX: (207) 725-3372 > > http://academic.bowdoin.edu/theaterdance/ > > Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2002 Report Share Posted November 15, 2002 Dear prabhus This discussion caused me to revisit Pancaratna prabhus report about his community supported agricultural (CSA) project he is now running in alachua. Without a financial base there cannot be a working ox programme. To be really sustainable the ox work must bring income to support the ox workers and there families in a realistic way. In the CSA model this seams to be achievable. We should give all encouragement to Pancaratna Prabhu and the devotees at Alachua in the success for this project. Surely in its success many more farming projects will be able to be inspired to be developed from its success. When oxen are used for growing vegetables there seams to be a good enough profit to pay the ox worker and to have products that are priced at a rate that customers can afford. When oxen are used for growing cerials the costs are very high and are vastly uncompetetive with conventionaly grown tractor and chemical crops. For an example one can currently buy one tonne of wheat for about 75 pounds sterling ($100). To grow wheat by oxen using intermediate technology would cost at least 300 pounds sterling ($450) which seams to be quite difficult to make a living from. Just some thoughts ys syam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2002 Report Share Posted November 15, 2002 "Syamasundara (das) (Bhaktivedanta Manor - UK)" wrote: > When oxen are used for growing vegetables there seams to be a good enough > profit to pay the ox worker and to have products that are priced at a rate > that customers can afford. When oxen are used for growing cerials the costs > are very high and are vastly uncompetetive with conventionaly grown tractor > and chemical crops. For an example one can currently buy one tonne of wheat > for about 75 pounds sterling ($100). To grow wheat by oxen using > intermediate technology would cost at least 300 pounds sterling ($450) which > seams to be quite difficult to make a living from. > > Just some thoughts > > ys syam My Uncle Mike was an agribusiness hog farmer when he visited Gita-nagari in the late 1980's, when most of the work there was still done by oxen. He was very impressed with the oxen and with the 5 acre vegetable garden. But, he made approximately the same assessment that you have presented above. He said, "How can you compete, growing grain? I can plant an acre of grain in one hour. With the oxen it might take you most of a day. I think the devotees would do best to follow a plan like the Amish [another group he admired] and plant vegetables. That's your best chance of being competitive on the market -- not grains." I both agree with him and disagree with him. If a certain amount of the produce must be market-oriented -- then he's right, vegetables are the way to go. On the other hand, when Srila Prabhupada told the devotees to become self-sufficient, he always said, "Grow your own grains, produce your own cloth." Neither one of these items could compete in a capitalistic market -- but there is a different goal in mind: self-sufficiency. Thus the farming that Srila Prabhupada envisioned was not market-oriented, but subsistence-oriented, with only the surplus (beyond what was required for the family) being sold. Prabhupada's model was a whole different life-style, not the market-oriented lifestyle we have all been indoctrinated in. To set it up initially, the start-up costs of land and buildings must be covered by donations from the conventional, capitalist economy. When it's so cheap to buy flour at the store, we have a hard time seeing the value of having oxen produce grains as advocated by Srila Prabhupada. But I'm thinking that if Bush imposes an oil war on the global economy, the cost of industrialized, petroleum-based farming will sky-rocket. At that time we'll be able to gain a better appreciation of Srila Prabhupada's vision of ox-powered farming. In the long-term, it would be best to go for small family subsistence farms which produce both ox-power grains and vegetables, as well as milk products. But in the short-term, it may be more feasible to de-emphasize the grain and increase the emphasis on producing ox-power vegetables for a specialized market. Such vegetables should be sold at a slightly higher price that in the grocery store, and should be highy valued offerings for any temple festival. The sannyasis for their part should encourage such production by facilitating the training needed and encouraging business people to support training and land and equipment purchases, etc. Their attitude should typically be something like this, "For my next vyasapuja celebration, I do not want any jeweled rings or any gold watches or any fancy cars. What will please me is to see that funding go to train and support some devotee families who develop ox-powered farming. I will consider any vegetables or other products that are produced by these devotee families to be a joint offering of our devotee business professionals and the young devotee farmers. I will prize being able to offer such products to Prabhupada and Krsna, above any amount of gold and jewels." your servant, Hare Krsna dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2002 Report Share Posted November 16, 2002 Thank you for your encouragement. We need the blessings of the devotees, especially those on this conference. > When oxen are used for growing vegetables there seams to be a good enough > profit to pay the ox worker and to have products that are priced at a rate > that customers can afford. When oxen are used for growing cerials the > costs are very high and are vastly uncompetetive with conventionaly grown > tractor and chemical crops. For an example one can currently buy one tonne > of wheat for about 75 pounds sterling ($100). To grow wheat by oxen using > intermediate technology would cost at least 300 pounds sterling ($450) > which seams to be quite difficult to make a living from. Our conclusion is that the bulk of the farm income must come from vegetables and fruits. Next comes milk and milk products. We hope to eventually grow just enough grains to feed the cows and oxen. As you have pointed out growing grains for commercial sale would be the most difficult to compete with on a small family farm. Corn meal in our area, though, is somewhat feasible. Wheat becomes a bit more feasible if you grind it yourself and sell direct to the consumer. If your figures are correct we might be able to do this at $0.60 a kg which is an attractive price. I'ld like to see your calculations. Direct from farm to consumer, without lot's of middle men, etc. is the way. We believe it is very, very difficult to succeed with dairy products alone - not enough work for the oxen and not enough income with a small sustainable herd unless your prices are really, really high. In this model we are targeting a milk price of about $5-6 / gallon which is still 50% more than local organic milk. The organic milk guy buys freshened heifers, without the calves, milks them for a year or bit more than sells them back to the breeder. He has no involvement in their protection, what to speak of the calves. Still his milk is $3.90 / gallon. YS Pancharatna DAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2002 Report Share Posted November 16, 2002 if it is possible to run a profitable venture in the us, nothing like it. is there any feasibility report ? "Syamasundara (das) (Bhaktivedanta Manor - UK)" <Syamasundara (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote:Dear prabhus This discussion caused me to revisit Pancaratna prabhus report about his community supported agricultural (CSA) project he is now running in alachua. Without a financial base there cannot be a working ox programme. To be really sustainable the ox work must bring income to support the ox workers and there families in a realistic way. In the CSA model this seams to be achievable. We should give all encouragement to Pancaratna Prabhu and the devotees at Alachua in the success for this project. Surely in its success many more farming projects will be able to be inspired to be developed from its success. When oxen are used for growing vegetables there seams to be a good enough profit to pay the ox worker and to have products that are priced at a rate that customers can afford. When oxen are used for growing cerials the costs are very high and are vastly uncompetetive with conventionaly grown tractor and chemical crops. For an example one can currently buy one tonne of wheat for about 75 pounds sterling ($100). To grow wheat by oxen using intermediate technology would cost at least 300 pounds sterling ($450) which seams to be quite difficult to make a living from. Just some thoughts ys syam Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 > > if it is possible to run a profitable venture in the us, nothing like it. > is there any feasibility report ? We are working on it. Still getting info on equipment costs, etc. Your servant, Pancaratna das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 would appreciate it if you can send a copy of it when you are done. Pancaratna ACBSP <Pancaratna.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote:> > if it is possible to run a profitable venture in the us, nothing like it. > is there any feasibility report ? We are working on it. Still getting info on equipment costs, etc. Your servant, Pancaratna das Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 > > We are working on it. Still getting info on equipment costs, etc. > > Your servant, > Pancaratna das > Don't buy new equipment, in most cases. So many smaller dairies have gone out of business there is an ocean of used still serviceable equipment available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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