Donation of a bull to a deserving place

[Guest guest]

Why did you bred a cow if you don't have facility to care for the offspring?

 

This is the same old mistake that has been made too many times on ISKCON

farms.

 

 

-

"S S" <sankar1 >

"Cow (Protection and related issues)" <Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "ISCOWP

(Balabhadra Dasa & Chaya Dasi - USA)" <ISCOWP (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Cc: <sankar1 >

Friday, December 20, 2002 10:05 AM

Donation of a bull to a deserving place

 

 

> We have a six month old bull called Labanga, who is

> mild mannered, well behaving and docile. Since we have

> 9 cows we are looking to donate him to some one who

> will guarantee that he will not be slaughtered and

> will be taken care of. As we know the bull stands for

> Dharma and if we take care of a bull, we take care of

> Dharma. Please contact me, if you are interested.

> Sankar Sastri, Manager

> Lakshmi Cow Sanctuary Inc.

> 1515. Ridge Road

> Bangor. Pa 18013

> 610 599 8824

> e-mail: sankar1

> --- "ISCOWP (Balabhadra Dasa & Chaya Dasi - USA)"

> <ISCOWP (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote:

> > SB 1.17.9

> > TRANSLATION

> > O son of Surabhi, you need lament no longer now.

> > There is no need to fear this

> > low-class südra. And, O mother cow, as long as I am

> > living as the ruler and

> > subduer of all envious men, there is no cause for

> > you to cry. Everything will

> > be good for you.

> >

> > PURPORT

> > Protection of bulls and cows and all other animals

> > can be possible only when

> > there is a state ruled by an executive head like

> > Mahäräja Pariksit. Mahäräja

> > Pariksit addresses the cow as mother, for he is a

> > cultured, twice-born,

> > ksatriya king. Surabhi is the name of the cows which

> > exist in the spiritual

> > planets and are especially reared by Lord Sri Krsna

> > Himself. As men are made

> > after the form and features of the Supreme Lord, so

> > also the cows are made

> > after the form and features of the surabhi cows in

> > the spiritual kingdom. In

> > the material world the human society gives all

> > protection to the human being,

> > but there is no law to protect the descendants of

> > Surabhi, who can give all

> > protection to men by supplying the miracle food,

> > milk. But Mahäräja Pariksit

> > and the Pandavas were fully conscious of the

> > importance of the cow and bull,

> > and they were prepared to punish the cow-killer with

> > all chastisement,

> > including death. There has sometimes been agitation

> > for the protection of the

> > cow, but for want of pious executive heads and

> > suitable laws, the cow and the

> > bull are not given protection. The human society

> > should recognize the

> > importance of the cow and the bull and thus give all

> > protection to these

> > important animals, following in the footsteps of

> > Mahäräja Pariksit. For

> > protecting the cows and brahminical culture, the

> > Lord, who is very kind to the

> > cow and the brähmanas (go-brähmana-hitäya), will be

> > pleased with us and will

> > bestow upon us real peace.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

> Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.

> http://mailplus.

>

[Guest guest]

I was expecting a nasty reply from you and I got it.

We saved the bull from slaughter and before he

impregnates the cows, I want to send him to a friendly

place which excludes you. We do not want to castrate

him before he is one year old and we will be happy to

take him back then. You are so eager to point mistakes

that every one commits. Atleast others are trying.

Sankar

--- Mark Middle Mountain <gourdmad (AT) ovnet (DOT) com> wrote:

> Why did you bred a cow if you don't have facility to

> care for the offspring?

>

> This is the same old mistake that has been made too

> many times on ISKCON

> farms.

>

>

> -

> "S S" <sankar1 >

> "Cow (Protection and related issues)"

> <Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "ISCOWP

> (Balabhadra Dasa & Chaya Dasi - USA)"

> <ISCOWP (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

> Cc: <sankar1 >

> Friday, December 20, 2002 10:05 AM

> Donation of a bull to a deserving place

>

>

> > We have a six month old bull called Labanga, who

> is

> > mild mannered, well behaving and docile. Since we

> have

> > 9 cows we are looking to donate him to some one

> who

> > will guarantee that he will not be slaughtered and

> > will be taken care of. As we know the bull stands

> for

> > Dharma and if we take care of a bull, we take care

> of

> > Dharma. Please contact me, if you are interested.

> > Sankar Sastri, Manager

> > Lakshmi Cow Sanctuary Inc.

> > 1515. Ridge Road

> > Bangor. Pa 18013

> > 610 599 8824

> > e-mail: sankar1

> > --- "ISCOWP (Balabhadra Dasa & Chaya Dasi - USA)"

> > <ISCOWP (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote:

> > > SB 1.17.9

> > > TRANSLATION

> > > O son of Surabhi, you need lament no longer now.

> > > There is no need to fear this

> > > low-class südra. And, O mother cow, as long as I

> am

> > > living as the ruler and

> > > subduer of all envious men, there is no cause

> for

> > > you to cry. Everything will

> > > be good for you.

> > >

> > > PURPORT

> > > Protection of bulls and cows and all other

> animals

> > > can be possible only when

> > > there is a state ruled by an executive head like

> > > Mahäräja Pariksit. Mahäräja

> > > Pariksit addresses the cow as mother, for he is

> a

> > > cultured, twice-born,

> > > ksatriya king. Surabhi is the name of the cows

> which

> > > exist in the spiritual

> > > planets and are especially reared by Lord Sri

> Krsna

> > > Himself. As men are made

> > > after the form and features of the Supreme Lord,

> so

> > > also the cows are made

> > > after the form and features of the surabhi cows

> in

> > > the spiritual kingdom. In

> > > the material world the human society gives all

> > > protection to the human being,

> > > but there is no law to protect the descendants

> of

> > > Surabhi, who can give all

> > > protection to men by supplying the miracle food,

> > > milk. But Mahäräja Pariksit

> > > and the Pandavas were fully conscious of the

> > > importance of the cow and bull,

> > > and they were prepared to punish the cow-killer

> with

> > > all chastisement,

> > > including death. There has sometimes been

> agitation

> > > for the protection of the

> > > cow, but for want of pious executive heads and

> > > suitable laws, the cow and the

> > > bull are not given protection. The human society

> > > should recognize the

> > > importance of the cow and the bull and thus give

> all

> > > protection to these

> > > important animals, following in the footsteps of

> > > Mahäräja Pariksit. For

> > > protecting the cows and brahminical culture, the

> > > Lord, who is very kind to the

> > > cow and the brähmanas (go-brähmana-hitäya), will

> be

> > > pleased with us and will

> > > bestow upon us real peace.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up

> now.

> > http://mailplus.

> >

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

> I was expecting a nasty reply from you and I got it.

> We saved the bull from slaughter and before he

> impregnates the cows, I want to send him to a friendly

> place which excludes you.

 

The Universe is a mirror

 

>We do not want to castrate

> him before he is one year old and we will be happy to

> take him back then.

 

Same point - don't take on resposnibility you can't handle and then blame

others for not helping you.

 

>You are so eager to point mistakes

> that every one commits.

 

Since you didn't mention the taking back part in your offer, I can only

conclude it wasn't made in good faith, except to provoke an expected

response, just to have an opportunity to make the above statement

 

>Atleast others are trying.

> Sankar

 

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

 

Believe it or not - I have more to offer you than you have to offer me, so

provoke or befriend, your option, makes me no difference. Easier for me

if you provoke, then I feel no obligation.

[Guest guest]

What a patetic discussion provoked by this person!

Why to cause all this mess in other people's minds? If he knows our stance

about this subject, why to present such a crazy proposal? What does he

think, that we're all playing farmers, with "invisible calfs" or something

like that? Or maybe he ignores all suffering that unwanted breeds brought

to cows in ISKCON's farms...

 

Ys

KJdd

[Guest guest]

>Or maybe he ignores all suffering that unwanted breeds brought

> to cows in ISKCON's farms...

>

> Ys

> KJdd

>

 

Some learn by hearing, some learn by making their own mistakes.

 

It is understandible what he thinks he is doing - every ISKCON farm that

did the same thing fell into the same trap, Maya is extraordinary that way,

everyone thought they would be able to avoid the hole those who went before

fell into.

 

If the presentation is that all nine cows on the farm were saved from

slaughter, that is one thing. Then even if someone weren't able to protect

them until death, at least to give them some pleasant time and extend their

lives, that is a good thing.

 

I believe the person who takes the decision to bred a cow does have the

responsibility to care for the calf lifetime, so if any of the cows of the

nine are born on the farm, then that is a more serious situation.

[Guest guest]

You wrotedon't take on resposnibility you can't

> handle and then blame

> others for not helping you.

We are taking responsibility and that is why we sent a

mail to find a deservung place either permanently or

for 5 months so that the bull can be castrated. Vet

says it is not good to castrate now and we should wait

one year. at the same time we do not want the bull to

impregnate the cows.

Easier for me

> if you provoke, then I feel no obligation

no body is provoking you and we do not want any one's

blood to boil. If you have a helpful suggestion, pl.

let us know. I am surprised that you wrote that you

can be provoked. Another person wrote that her blood

is boilng.

Boling your blood will give only heart attack. Instead

one can give a good suggestion, but please do not send

nasty reply.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

We don't care whether we go to hell because that is

not in our hand. We want to save cows even if it is

only for a short time. We are trying hard to save them

till death and there is always God to help us. Any way

may God bless you and all. Sankar

--- Mark Middle Mountain <gourdmad (AT) ovnet (DOT) com> wrote:

>

>

>

> > I was expecting a nasty reply from you and I got

> it.

> > We saved the bull from slaughter and before he

> > impregnates the cows, I want to send him to a

> friendly

> > place which excludes you.

>

> The Universe is a mirror

>

> >We do not want to castrate

> > him before he is one year old and we will be happy

> to

> > take him back then.

>

> Same point - don't take on resposnibility you can't

> handle and then blame

> others for not helping you.

>

> >You are so eager to point mistakes

> > that every one commits.

>

> Since you didn't mention the taking back part in

> your offer, I can only

> conclude it wasn't made in good faith, except to

> provoke an expected

> response, just to have an opportunity to make the

> above statement

>

> >Atleast others are trying.

> > Sankar

>

> The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

>

> Believe it or not - I have more to offer you than

> you have to offer me, so

> provoke or befriend, your option, makes me no

> difference. Easier for me

> if you provoke, then I feel no obligation.

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Sankar, I have a suggestion.. I know an old devotee who would babysit for a

year in order to give his old ox some company... he had two but one guy got

old and bit the dust.. now this ox is pushing 18 years and I think he might

have another year still in him.. so anyway, I will ask, but I would need to

know to propose, that since, we or he would be watching your child for a

year, would you be providing his winter feed, and salt, transport...ect...

 

I'm not making a promise, but I think you could just keep the bull until the

time is ready to castrate him.. most normaly he should be not able to mount,

(reach),.. in order to make connection to proginate.. instead, IF, he gets

some urge... Then he will have to pull up a chair or just hump the air.....

ys, Derek-

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

A good suggestion - actually we need him to care of

the bull only for 5 months. We can pay for the winter

feed. Thank you. Sankar

--- billy bob buckwheat <d_4h (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

>

>

>

> Sankar, I have a suggestion.. I know an old devotee

> who would babysit for a

> year in order to give his old ox some company... he

> had two but one guy got

> old and bit the dust.. now this ox is pushing 18

> years and I think he might

> have another year still in him.. so anyway, I will

> ask, but I would need to

> know to propose, that since, we or he would be

> watching your child for a

> year, would you be providing his winter feed, and

> salt, transport...ect...

>

> I'm not making a promise, but I think you could just

> keep the bull until the

> time is ready to castrate him.. most normaly he

> should be not able to mount,

> (reach),.. in order to make connection to

> proginate.. instead, IF, he gets

> some urge... Then he will have to pull up a chair or

> just hump the air.....

> ys, Derek-

>

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

What is his breed?... Where did you get him (exactly) how old is he

exactly?.... does he have any obviouse disease or wounds..? is he loosing

any hair? is he weened yet? what are you feeding him now and how much..? he

would need his winter grass. would also need a salt block here and there in

time, and transportation.. from where would he be comming? what is the exact

reason that you want him to go on another property..? If its cause of the

posibility of empregnation, he is too inmature and wont be big enough to

mount a cow and get her pregnant..

and if your still scared why don't you make a separate area just for him?

hope you don't mind all the questions but could you answer them all. thanks,

Derek-

 

 

 

 

 

 

>A good suggestion - actually we need him to care of

>the bull only for 5 months. We can pay for the winter

>feed. Thank you. Sankar

>--- billy bob buckwheat <d_4h (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Sankar, I have a suggestion.. I know an old devotee

> > who would babysit for a

> > year in order to give his old ox some company... he

> > had two but one guy got

> > old and bit the dust.. now this ox is pushing 18

> > years and I think he might

> > have another year still in him.. so anyway, I will

> > ask, but I would need to

> > know to propose, that since, we or he would be

> > watching your child for a

> > year, would you be providing his winter feed, and

> > salt, transport...ect...

> >

> > I'm not making a promise, but I think you could just

> > keep the bull until the

> > time is ready to castrate him.. most normaly he

> > should be not able to mount,

> > (reach),.. in order to make connection to

> > proginate.. instead, IF, he gets

> > some urge... Then he will have to pull up a chair or

> > just hump the air.....

> > ys, Derek-

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>_______________

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> > FREE*.

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> >

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

-

"billy bob buckwheat" <d_4h (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>

Friday, December 27, 2002 10:00 am

Re: Donation of a bull to a deserving place

 

> What is the exact reason that you want him to go on another

>property..? If its cause of the posibility of empregnation,

>he is too immature and won't be big enough to mount a cow

>and get her pregnant..

 

For the record, a 6 month old bull calf *can impregnate a cow.*

 

In the 1990's while Kamra prabhu was at ISKCON's Murari-Sevaka farm in

Tennessee, she told me that they had a 6 month old bull calf, which they

though was safe. Unfortunately, the calf impregnated several cows,

resulting in unwanted calves.

 

Most participants on this conference probably remember that

Murari-Sevaka was the farm where the acting temple president sold 12

cows and oxen to slaughter in 1998.

 

That is one reason why many of the participants on this conference are

extremely sensitive about the idea of breeding unwanted bull calves. We

have seen the hellish results of irresponsible acts.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

[Guest guest]

> > What is the exact reason that you want him to go on another

> >property..? If its cause of the posibility of empregnation,

> >he is too immature and won't be big enough to mount a cow

> >and get her pregnant..

>

>For the record, a 6 month old bull calf *can impregnate a cow.*

>

>In the 1990's while Kamra prabhu was at ISKCON's Murari-Sevaka farm in

>Tennessee, she told me that they had a 6 month old bull calf, which they

>though was safe. Unfortunately, the calf impregnated several cows,

>resulting in unwanted calves.

>

>Most participants on this conference probably remember that

>Murari-Sevaka was the farm where the acting temple president sold 12

>cows and oxen to slaughter in 1998.

>

>That is one reason why many of the participants on this conference are

>extremely sensitive about the idea of breeding unwanted bull calves. We

>have seen the hellish results of irresponsible acts.

>

>your servant,

>

>Hare Krsna dasi

 

THis is the reason I'm asking soo many questions... at Marari Sevak they had

different breeds of cows when I went there in a couple occasions and so that

means one kind of cow (who would be larger) could possilby reach a (young)

heifer. SOOOOO, Its doubtful in my opinion that he would be able to reach at

1 year old, being around the same breed as himself.. If I could scan a

picture of Sri Kanta who is now massive, but when he was 1 year old he

couldn't do anything even if he had a step ladder... I'm kind of suspicious

of the 6 month old calf getting multiple cows pregnant, that should be on

thats incredible or believe it or not...

WHen he was 2 years old he looked as if he would still have trouble except

in the right circumctance...

anyway take it as you will this is just one opinion.

I still think you should keep him. If you make a simple private situation he

will be of absolute, 100%, no problem, or threat of impregnating any cow. At

the age of 1 you can still shove him any which way you want him to go, like

a paper weight...

ys Derek-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

> >

> > For the record, a 6 month old bull calf *can impregnate a cow.*

>

>Can't say I know for sure a 6 month old calf will impregnate a cow, but I

>can say I have seen them trying :-)

 

 

 

Yea, I seen'em too.....Humping air...

ys, D.

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

>

> For the record, a 6 month old bull calf *can impregnate a cow.*

 

Can't say I know for sure a 6 month old calf will impregnate a cow, but I

can say I have seen them trying :-)

[Guest guest]

The story of the calf Labanga is very interesting. I

went with one devotee Rob Royce, a friend of yours to

a slaughter hoise auction and we saw about 100 to 150

very young and tender calves packed in a small room.

One young calf wearing an auction tag # 427 came to

see Rob stepping over the bodies of other calves which

were lying in the ground. Rob's birth day is April 27

and he took it as divine calling and he wanted to save

him at any price. Luckily he bought him in the auction

for $ 30 and named him Labanga after Lord Krishna's

class mate. Labanga came to lakshmi cow sanctuary in

Jul and he took our cow Qyo Chung ( name of l0rd

Buddha) as his step mother. Qyo Chung was saved by a

Buddhist monk in China town, NYC. The monk saves

animals from the gateway of death. Labanga as I said

is mild mannered and a little shy.He gets along well

with other animals in the herd. Labang a Holstein bull

is healthy and responds well to his name. He has thick

lush hair and no wounds and he is 6 months old. He

still drinks milk from Qyo Chung. He eats a little

grain and hay with other cows and calves. I hope I

have answered all questions and before I can amke any

decision, I have to get permission from Rob

Royce(Raghunath Das). We are in Bangor, Pa 70 miles

from NYC and I am exploring the possibility of

relocation either on a temporary or permanent basis to

avoid pregnancy to the 4 cows. Thank you and May god

bless us all. Sankar sastri

--- billy bob buckwheat <d_4h (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

>

>

> What is his breed?... Where did you get him

> (exactly) how old is he

> exactly?.... does he have any obviouse disease or

> wounds..? is he loosing

> any hair? is he weened yet? what are you feeding him

> now and how much..? he

> would need his winter grass. would also need a salt

> block here and there in

> time, and transportation.. from where would he be

> comming? what is the exact

> reason that you want him to go on another

> property..? If its cause of the

> posibility of empregnation, he is too inmature and

> wont be big enough to

> mount a cow and get her pregnant..

> and if your still scared why don't you make a

> separate area just for him?

> hope you don't mind all the questions but could you

> answer them all. thanks,

> Derek-

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >A good suggestion - actually we need him to care of

> >the bull only for 5 months. We can pay for the

> winter

> >feed. Thank you. Sankar

> >--- billy bob buckwheat <d_4h (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Sankar, I have a suggestion.. I know an old

> devotee

> > > who would babysit for a

> > > year in order to give his old ox some company...

> he

> > > had two but one guy got

> > > old and bit the dust.. now this ox is pushing 18

> > > years and I think he might

> > > have another year still in him.. so anyway, I

> will

> > > ask, but I would need to

> > > know to propose, that since, we or he would be

> > > watching your child for a

> > > year, would you be providing his winter feed,

> and

> > > salt, transport...ect...

> > >

> > > I'm not making a promise, but I think you could

> just

> > > keep the bull until the

> > > time is ready to castrate him.. most normaly he

> > > should be not able to mount,

> > > (reach),.. in order to make connection to

> > > proginate.. instead, IF, he gets

> > > some urge... Then he will have to pull up a

> chair or

> > > just hump the air.....

> > > ys, Derek-

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

>

>_______________

> > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3

> months

> > > FREE*.

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> > >

> >

> >

> >

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[Guest guest]

My local vet says 7 months they are no longer shooting blanks. I didn't ask

him about any earlier.

 

Commercial beef herds seperate their calves before seven months?

 

ys syam

[Guest guest]

> Commercial beef herds seperate their calves before seven months?

>

> ys syam

>

 

Raised with commercial beef, I can say we castrated at about 6 months. We

did it as a group, rounding up the whole herd, cutting out the calves,

and doing them all at the same time, so the age would vary a bit, but we

timed the calving to all come in late winter, so not more than a month or

so difference in the ages. We would castrate, brand, dehorn, and

inoculate all at once.

 

My understanding for oxen it is better to wait a bit longer.