What is Needed to Begin and Sustain a Rural Community?

[Guest guest]

Mark:

I can not agree more with Syams points, all of which I completely resonate

with.

 

I paricuarly think points 2,3 and 4 are relevant to someone like myself.

 

 

>Shyamasundara:

2. The participants are protected from victimization by dint of weakend

sadhana.

>

>3. Land holding is based on farming practices and not on Spiritual prowess.

>

>4. Back off zones are established to cushion the participants from

intolerant management groups.

>

>From my perspective, I could be called a liberal karmi, not a fixed-up

conservative devotee. But at the end of the day, I literally am a LIBERAL.

This may be word play, but to me to be liberal is to be atma, to be free. I

am a lifeform with freedom of choice, and if I choose to chant 16 and do 4

regs then that's my perogative, and if I choose to be a muslim, or a

christian of an athiest, that's my perogative.

 

Comment:

It is your prerogative to act that way, but when you associate with devotees

you must understand that they are bound by sastra not associate with you.

When they associate with you it is or should be only for preaching, they

should not take your association but should give theirs. If we do not behave

in this way it waters down our teachings, the example Srila Prabhupada has

given. When he came to America he did not adopt western dress and manners,

no he taught his ways to us. We did adopt his ways because we saw these

things as part of his message - they fostered the appropriate mentality that

was conducive to spiritual life. He would accommodate you like one would a

guest - you cannot live with us in our community - but come and chant with

us, take prasadam, render service and hear class.

 

Srila Prabhupada was very empathic that all who lived in the community of

devotees do at least the following:

1. Chant a prescribed number of rounds, minimum being sixteen.

2. That they follow the four regulative principles.

 

Now if someone was having difficulty with these they were not immediately

kicked out, first an attempt to have them reform their behavior was

attempted. Then if that did not work they were asked to live outside, visit

regularly and were encouraged to participate in hearing, chanting and

rendering service according to their capability. If they could not do this

then they were encouraged to visit and give some donation. That is the

system, if you have experience otherwise, then those whom you came in

contact with at the temple have done a great disservice to Srila Prabhupada.

Those persons are at fault not this system that Srila Prabhupada has

initiated.

 

Mark:

The perogative of a community must form a communalliberal stance, meaning to

make a collective choice of what to communally allow or not to allow. If

this choice brings forth standards of behaviour that are way above the

common ilk, then there can not be a house for all, no Madi or Gadi, or

whoever they were and are. I am not saying that there should be no standard

of communal choice, but ISKCON suffers, in my opinion, from a lack of

tolerance to diverse lifestyles and easily throws stones in glasshouses.

Others do the same, and it is in the lack of tolerance and critisism of

differences that conflict arises. Prabhupada was very careful of what,

where, when, with whom and how he critisised others, but many devotees are

not - for them all else are rascal animals. This type of mentality will only

lead to exclusion, not inclusion, no matter how true it may be.

 

Comment:

There should be no criticism, yet purity must be maintained, it is a

delicate balance. Everyone must be encouraged to come and render service and

in the process learn how to give up material things and mentalities so that

they can become cent percent absorbed in Krishna. This is a slow gradual

process. May I suggest that you thoughtfully read the Fifty Canto, just a

few texts every day. If there is some question then take it to a devotee

whom you respect and ask his understanding of this part of sastra. A devotee

(pure) lives in this material world and uses what is there, but his

mentality is not of this world it is always in relation to Krishna.

Ys, Rohita dasa

[Guest guest]

> >From my perspective, I could be called a liberal karmi, not a fixed-up

>conservative devotee. But at the end of the day, I literally am a LIBERAL.

>This may be word play, but to me to be liberal is to be atma, to be free. I

>am a lifeform with freedom of choice, and if I choose to chant 16 and do 4

>regs then that's my perogative, and if I choose to be a muslim, or a

>christian of an athiest, that's my perogative.

>

>Comment:

>It is your prerogative to act that way, but when you associate with

>devotees

>you must understand that they are bound by sastra not associate with you.

 

I find this small-minded fanatic sectarianism, scary. Are you going to have

cameras in their bedrooms, to make sure there is no illicit sex, or is there

going to be weekly confessionals?

 

 

 

_______________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

-

"Niscala Devidasi" <niscala89 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>

"Cow (Protection and related issues)" <Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Sunday, September 23, 2001 6:27 PM

Re: What is Needed to Begin and Sustain a Rural Community?

 

 

>

>

> > >From my perspective, I could be called a liberal karmi, not a fixed-up

> >conservative devotee. But at the end of the day, I literally am a

LIBERAL.

> >This may be word play, but to me to be liberal is to be atma, to be free.

I

> >am a lifeform with freedom of choice, and if I choose to chant 16 and do

4

> >regs then that's my perogative, and if I choose to be a muslim, or a

> >christian of an athiest, that's my perogative.

> >

> >Comment:

> >It is your prerogative to act that way, but when you associate with

> >devotees

> >you must understand that they are bound by sastra not associate with you.

>

> I find this small-minded fanatic sectarianism, scary. Are you going to

have

> cameras in their bedrooms, to make sure there is no illicit sex, or is

there

> going to be weekly confessionals?

 

Comment:

If you feel this way I can not understand what has drawn you to this

movement for that is what it's teachings are - that one of their own

volition

control their senses and remembers Krishna at the time of death - which can

come at any moment.

[Guest guest]

Dear Rohita dasa,

 

 

> If you feel this way I can not understand what has

> drawn you to this

> movement for that is what it's teachings are - that

> one of their own

> volition

> control their senses and remembers Krishna at the

> time of death - which can

> come at any moment.

 

What has drawn people to the movement are myriad

things, and the Vedic teachings and Prabhupada's

writings can be seen on many levels. I think it is

best to look at Bhagavad Gita Chapter 2 to see how

Krsna himself shows tolerance to varied paths all that

eventually lead to him. It is such tolerance that

allows for the "whole house" model to be applied.

 

Also, admitted that I need to control my sences more

to be happier, but I do not go around thinking of

Krsna so that when I die I will still have him on my

mind to go back to Him. No, I live my life in the best

accordance to Absolute Knowledge that I can

momentarily take. Whilst a disliking of birth and

death are wise things to have, I do not think it wise

to be eternally waiting for death so as to cry for

Krsna. Obviously, I have speculative tendancies, but

my philosophy in life is:

 

Love Life - Live Love

 

And if that takes me to simple rurual life with

protected farm animals, and even to the devotees, so

be it. But is it not strange that so many people like

me who have been through the temple no longer

associate freely with devotees because of sectarian

dogma that does not allow differences to be accepted

and whole-house mentality to breed? Whilst you may

have the Absolute Truth, if you do not attract me to

it what is the point in remembering Krsna at the time

of death. I have read somewhere that he would prefer

you to meditate on attracting people like me to Him,

not on your own personal salvation.

 

 

Mark

 

 

 

Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Messenger.

http://im.

[Guest guest]

> Comment:

When he came to America he did not adopt

> western dress and manners, no he taught his ways to us. We did adopt his

> ways because we saw these things as part of his message - they fostered

> the appropriate mentality that was conducive to spiritual life. He would

> accommodate you like one would a guest - you cannot live with us in our

> community - but come and chant with us, take prasadam, render service and

> hear clas

 

Srila Prabhupada did say at one point that we could have grihamedhis living

on our farms. I got the impression that by this he meant persons who are

attracted to Krsna Consciousness but who cannot immediately take to all the

rules and regulations, and may not immediately understand the devotees being

so fixed in Sastra.

 

I feel that if we do end up with many people coming to our farms due to

social collapse there may be many who fit into this catogory.

 

When I was researching the masterplan for Mayapur, I discovered that it was

reccomended that persons of different natures/varnas be seperated by good

boundaries. Brahmins will not appreciate the close association of Sudras on

a day to day basis. Good fences make good neighbors as they say. Originaly

the different races of people were bounded by seas rivers or mountains, and

they all lived very happily.

 

As was mentioned before, we have to give association and not take it from

materialists. Some devotees have argued that we have failed as a society

because we have not become good farmers. But it struck me that farming skill

is not so rare, but devotees with a good vision of how society should be

run, for the ultimate Krsna Conscious benefit of all, they are rare. Best

would be if the Krsna Conscious persons also know how to manage rural

communities, but a little Krsna Consciousness and sincerity can go a long

way.

>

> Srila Prabhupada was very empathic that all who lived in the community of

> devotees do at least the following:

> 1. Chant a prescribed number of rounds, minimum being sixteen.

> 2. That they follow the four regulative principles.

>

> Now if someone was having difficulty with these they were not immediately

> kicked out, first an attempt to have them reform their behavior was

> attempted. Then if that did not work they were asked to live outside,

> visit regularly and were encouraged to participate in hearing, chanting

> and rendering service according to their capability. If they could not do

> this then they were encouraged to visit and give some donation.

 

What about creating rings? People who are very serious about Krsna

Consciousness are right in the middle next to the Temple, and then in

concentric rings you have areas of less dedication, with the outside ring

being people who are favourable, but who need a lot of good association.

 

I was surprised to come accross a letter where Prabhupada was insisting that

our Grihastas be allowed to live within the Temple, even if they were

breaking the principles, rather than pushing them out from the Temple and

run the risk of loosing them altogether. To me this showed a side of

Prabhupada that was most compassionate. He understood that many disciples

were weak, but did not want to waste all the energy we put into making them

devotees in the first place. Better we tolerate their faults in the hopes

that they will come round eventualy.

 

Your servant

Samba das

[Guest guest]

>What about creating rings? People who are very serious about Krsna

>Consciousness are right in the middle next to the Temple, and then in

>concentric rings you have areas of less dedication, with the outside ring

>being people who are favourable, but who need a lot of good association.

 

Not a good idea. We already have enough status symbols, dandas, saffron etc.

External is of no consideration, one simply looks for good qualities in a

person, the internal things, and associates accordingly.

 

For example I just got a letter from a newly joined bhaktin who is far more

adavnced in her realizations than any sannyasi I have met.

 

ys, Niscala

 

 

_______________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

> >What about creating rings? People who are very serious about Krsna

> >Consciousness are right in the middle next to the Temple, and then in

> >concentric rings you have areas of less dedication, with the outside ring

> >being people who are favourable, but who need a lot of good association.

>

> Not a good idea. We already have enough status symbols, dandas, saffron

> etc. External is of no consideration, one simply looks for good qualities

> in a person, the internal things, and associates accordingly.

>

> For example I just got a letter from a newly joined bhaktin who is far

> more adavnced in her realizations than any sannyasi I have met.

 

I know what you mean. It would only work if there was an inspirational

spiritual leader whom everyone respected.

 

YS