Lamp Oil verses Castor oil and poisonious plants

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/12/99 11:50:10 AM US Mountain Standard Time,

tulasipriya (AT) com (DOT) org writes:

 

>

> 12/12/99 11:50:10 AM US Mountain Standard Time

> tulasipriya (AT) com (DOT) org (WWW: Tulasi-priya (Devi Dasi) SDG (?))

> Reply-to: <A HREF="tulasipriya (AT) com (DOT) org,">tulasipriya (AT) com (DOT) org,</A>

Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se, Practical.Varnasrama (AT) bbt (DOT) se

>

> On 11 Dec 1999, DGilsen (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

>

>

> > Now don't get all riled up in righteous rage, but I believe that

> the oil

> > they sell in India that Prabhupada said was the best may not have been

> the

>

> Maybe what SP called castor oil is in India something different.

Perhaps but the castor beans growing in Mayapur are the exact same in

appearance as grow in my land, they may be different but they seem identical

in appearance to me.

>

>

>

>

> > pure oil we are producing. And at the time he lived he had never to my

> > knowledge been a farmer. I think sometimes while Prabhupada is an

> elevated

> > enlightened being some time, he was talking about things he had heard

> about

> > but had no actual hands on knowledge.

>

>

> A first-class man learns by hearing. What do these editorial comments

> have to do with castor oil? Because of who he was Devotees believe that

every word that fell from Srila Prabhupada's mouth is gospel and to question

any word he spoke is heresy. So whenever I mention that I was unable to get

pure home grown caster bean oil to burn I did not want to be burned at the

stake by over zealous devotees. So either there is an additive or and

adulterant the castor oil that SP used because Three other devotees have told

me the same thing, they can't get castor oil to burn hardly at all. The

castor beans may come from different varieties of plants I grew both

varieties and the oil didn't burn form either pressing.

>

>

>

>

> Although caster plants seem

> > to grow world wide from the tropics of Cuba to northern Germany and

> beyond.

> > I don't think we should cultivate the plant at all, sense it is such a

> deadly

> > poison! Only the oil pressed from the seed is not poisonous.

> The entire

> > plant. Leaves, roots, bark and sap!

>

>

> Why is this not mentioned in the many seed catalogs that sell castor

> seeds? The seeds are always mentioned as toxic, but not the rest of the

> plant.

> That, I cannot answer, however it is nevertheless a fact!

>

>

> > The oil when

> > ingested by humans makes us have diarrhea.

>

> Castor oil is, when properly used, a traditional remedy for constipation.

> It has been used even for children (Fletcher's Castoria). You can take a

I know my mother used to dose us all the time with that stuff whether

we needed it or not!

> good thing and use it for evil, though. The Nazis would forcibly pour

> _quarts_ of castor oil down the throats of Jews, whose bowels would burst

> as a result, causing death.

>

>

>

> >It is toxic when burned and an

>

>

> I've never heard of this, what is the source of your information

 

One of the source's I have Is "Plants that poison" An illustrated guide for

the American Southwest By Ervin M. Schumutz and Lucretia Breazeale Hamilton

Northland press/Flagstaff, Arizona 1979 Page 38 and 39 "Toxic parts Entire

plant especially the seeds" Poisoning: "The seeds, pressed cake, and to a

lesser extent the foliage ( but not the oil) are extremely toxic when eaten.

The poisonous principal is Ricin, a Photoxin. One to three seeds can be

fatal to a child, 2 to 8 to an adult. Handling or swallowing the seeds may

induce bronchial asthma and dermatitis, and the flowers may cause respiratory

problems in sensitive individuals."

"SYMPTOMS; Burning of the mouth and throat, nausea, vomiting, severe

stomach pains bloody diarrhea, excessive thirst, prostration dullness of

vision, convulsions, kidney failure, and death in one to twelve days after

eating due to circulatory collapse."

Peace sister I did not mean to rile up the troops but I was at a weeny

roast as a small child and Was severely poisoned by the oleander stick I was

heating the weeny on and all of us got sick and one died. Poisoning is a

really awful way to die. I will take a bullet to the head any day.

Carol

[Guest guest]

Dear Prabhus;

 

PAMHO AGTSP

 

Carol I must say for someone who doesn't know a castor plant from Ginseng

you sure seem to come to a conclusion very quickly. First of all the point

where you say Srila Prabhupada didn't know, I say you don't know. If you

aren't careful you may never know. I myself don't know how to process the

oil, but am very familiar with the plant itself for medicinal uses. It is

used extensively both internally and externally. It is the same plant Srila

Prabhupada was discussing in using for burning. It is just some

technicality that we have not understood yet. I will find out. But in the

mean time, could you please not be so authoratative to jump to some

conclusion that is quite possibly incorrect. I know you don't mean to be

offensive, but it is unneccesary to say things about Srila Prabhupada that

you really don't even know if you are materially correct, much less

spiritually correct. What is the point. First as the Vedas state we should

accept the Authority of Sadhu and Sastra. Then we figure out how it works.

Just because we don't know we don't say they must be wrong. After all I

daresay Carol you might just be ignorant of how to do it. I know that may

come as a shock, but maybe I would rather think Srila Prabhupada is making a

point being a chemist and not to mention a extremely intelligent person. So

maybe before you even bring the subject, maybe just maybe you should

research as if He is corrrect and then if it comes out that there is some

clarification, then we are all understanding that Srila Prabhupada did so

many things that are meant to purify us, so we can then listen to your

dissertation about castor oil. Until then I give him the benifit of the

doubt as I have been where you are with other situations and came out with

my foot in my mouth. So before engaging mouth maybe mind should be in gear.

 

I WILL GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THE CASTOR OIL THING.

 

YS

Dvibhuja das

 

DGilsen (AT) aol (DOT) com <DGilsen (AT) aol (DOT) com>

tulasipriya (AT) com (DOT) org <tulasipriya (AT) com (DOT) org>; COM: Cow (Protection and

related issues) <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Practical Varnasrama

<Practical.Varnasrama (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

Monday, December 13, 1999 12:00 AM

Re: Lamp Oil verses Castor oil and poisonious plants

 

 

>[Text 2853957 from COM]

>

>In a message dated 12/12/99 11:50:10 AM US Mountain Standard Time,

>tulasipriya (AT) com (DOT) org writes:

>

>>

>> 12/12/99 11:50:10 AM US Mountain Standard Time

>> tulasipriya (AT) com (DOT) org (WWW: Tulasi-priya (Devi Dasi) SDG (?))

>> Reply-to: <A

HREF="tulasipriya (AT) com (DOT) org,">tulasipriya (AT) com (DOT) org,</A>

> Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se, Practical.Varnasrama (AT) bbt (DOT) se

>>

>> On 11 Dec 1999, DGilsen (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

>>

>>

>> > Now don't get all riled up in righteous rage, but I believe that

>> the oil

>> > they sell in India that Prabhupada said was the best may not have been

>> the

>>

>> Maybe what SP called castor oil is in India something different.

> Perhaps but the castor beans growing in Mayapur are the exact same in

>appearance as grow in my land, they may be different but they seem

identical

>in appearance to me.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> > pure oil we are producing. And at the time he lived he had never to my

>> > knowledge been a farmer. I think sometimes while Prabhupada is an

>> elevated

>> > enlightened being some time, he was talking about things he had heard

>> about

>> > but had no actual hands on knowledge.

>>

>>

>> A first-class man learns by hearing. What do these editorial comments

>> have to do with castor oil? Because of who he was Devotees believe that

>every word that fell from Srila Prabhupada's mouth is gospel and to

question

>any word he spoke is heresy. So whenever I mention that I was unable to

get

>pure home grown caster bean oil to burn I did not want to be burned at the

>stake by over zealous devotees. So either there is an additive or and

>adulterant the castor oil that SP used because Three other devotees have

told

>me the same thing, they can't get castor oil to burn hardly at all. The

>castor beans may come from different varieties of plants I grew both

>varieties and the oil didn't burn form either pressing.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> Although caster plants seem

>> > to grow world wide from the tropics of Cuba to northern Germany and

>> beyond.

>> > I don't think we should cultivate the plant at all, sense it is such a

>> deadly

>> > poison! Only the oil pressed from the seed is not poisonous.

>> The entire

>> > plant. Leaves, roots, bark and sap!

>>

>>

>> Why is this not mentioned in the many seed catalogs that sell castor

>> seeds? The seeds are always mentioned as toxic, but not the rest of the

>> plant.

>> That, I cannot answer, however it is nevertheless a fact!

>>

>>

>> > The oil when

>> > ingested by humans makes us have diarrhea.

>>

>> Castor oil is, when properly used, a traditional remedy for constipation.

>> It has been used even for children (Fletcher's Castoria). You can take a

> I know my mother used to dose us all the time with that stuff whether

>we needed it or not!

>> good thing and use it for evil, though. The Nazis would forcibly pour

>> _quarts_ of castor oil down the throats of Jews, whose bowels would

burst

>> as a result, causing death.

>>

>>

>>

>> >It is toxic when burned and an

>>

>>

>> I've never heard of this, what is the source of your information

>

>One of the source's I have Is "Plants that poison" An illustrated guide for

>the American Southwest By Ervin M. Schumutz and Lucretia Breazeale Hamilton

>Northland press/Flagstaff, Arizona 1979 Page 38 and 39 "Toxic parts

Entire

>plant especially the seeds" Poisoning: "The seeds, pressed cake, and to a

>lesser extent the foliage ( but not the oil) are extremely toxic when

eaten.

>The poisonous principal is Ricin, a Photoxin. One to three seeds can be

>fatal to a child, 2 to 8 to an adult. Handling or swallowing the seeds may

>induce bronchial asthma and dermatitis, and the flowers may cause

respiratory

>problems in sensitive individuals."

> "SYMPTOMS; Burning of the mouth and throat, nausea, vomiting, severe

>stomach pains bloody diarrhea, excessive thirst, prostration dullness of

>vision, convulsions, kidney failure, and death in one to twelve days after

>eating due to circulatory collapse."

> Peace sister I did not mean to rile up the troops but I was at a weeny

>roast as a small child and Was severely poisoned by the oleander stick I

was

>heating the weeny on and all of us got sick and one died. Poisoning is a

>really awful way to die. I will take a bullet to the head any day.

>Carol

[Guest guest]

On 13 Dec 1999, DGilsen (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

 

> In a message dated 12/12/99 11:50:10 AM US Mountain Standard Time,

> tulasipriya (AT) com (DOT) org writes:

> > On 11 Dec 1999, DGilsen (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

 

> > the oil

> > > they sell in India that Prabhupada said was the best may not have

been

 

> > Maybe what SP called castor oil is in India something different.

 

 

> Perhaps but the castor beans growing in Mayapur are the exact same

> in appearance as grow in my land, they may be different but they seem

> identical in appearance to me.

 

 

I've been doing some research and it seems that India is the major

commercial producer and exporter of castor oil for the world.

 

 

 

> > > pure oil we are producing. And at the time he lived he had never

to my

> > > knowledge been a farmer. I think sometimes while Prabhupada is an

> > elevated

> > > enlightened being some time, he was talking about things he had

heard

> > about

> > > but had no actual hands on knowledge.

> >

> >

> > A first-class man learns by hearing. What do these editorial comments

> > have to do with castor oil?

 

> Because of who he was Devotees believe that

> every word that fell from Srila Prabhupada's mouth is gospel

 

 

Some of us do feel that way, and I can personally say it's never steered

me wrong, materially or spiritually.

 

 

> and to question

> any word he spoke is heresy.

 

 

 

I don't have any problems with questioning, but you did not question. You

made a solid statement with some serious implications attached. How do

you know that Prabhupada never had any first hand experience with burning

castor oil?

 

 

> So whenever I mention that I was unable to get

> pure home grown caster bean oil to burn I did not want to be burned at

the

> stake by over zealous devotees. So either there is an additive or and

> adulterant the castor oil

 

That may be, so why not research what would make home-made castor oil

burn properly before you say that it can't be done? For all we know, it

could be something very simple, and we'll all be enriched for the

knowledge.

 

 

> that SP used because Three other devotees have told

> me the same thing, they can't get castor oil to burn hardly at all.

 

 

Faith, be it in the words of the acarya, or simply confidence in one's

own abilities, is the foundation for any endeavor. I managed to burn

castor oil in a dipa lamp for over two hours last night, with no smoke,

no fumes, no problem. It was quite nice, especially since I got a lot of

satisfaction from knowing that Prabhupada was right.

 

 

> castor beans may come from different varieties of plants I grew both

> varieties and the oil didn't burn form either pressing.

 

 

Did it ever occur to you that maybe Prabhupada is right, perhaps you were

doing something wrong?

 

 

> > Although caster plants seem

> > > to grow world wide from the tropics of Cuba to northern Germany and

> > beyond.

> > > I don't think we should cultivate the plant at all, sense it is

such a

> > deadly

> > > poison!

 

I can choose to accept your authority (when you say what people should or

shouldn't do, you automatically appoint yourself as an authority), or I

can accept Prabhupada's instruction and have a wonderful, renewable

energy source, which is also an effective laxative and skin emollient.

It's also used as a treament for tumors.

 

Lots of beneficial substances can be poisonous, if you're ignorant of the

dangers or just careless. Electricity, anyone? I'd be willing to bet more

people have been killed in accidents involving kerosene lamps or electric

light than by castor beans.

 

 

 

 

>Only the oil pressed from the seed is not poisonous.

 

If our founder-acarya told us to ingest any other part of the plant, I'd

think twice about following that instruction. But all he said was to burn

the oil in a lamp for light.

 

 

> > Castor oil is, when properly used, a traditional remedy for

constipation.

> > It has been used even for children (Fletcher's Castoria). You can

take a

> I know my mother used to dose us all the time with that stuff

whether

> we needed it or not!

 

So maybe you're having some kind of prejudice against castor oil because

of unpleasant childhood memories? Can't say I blame you!

 

> > >It is toxic when burned and an

 

> > I've never heard of this, what is the source of your information

 

> One of the source's I have Is "Plants that poison" An illustrated guide

for

> the American Southwest By Ervin M. Schumutz and Lucretia Breazeale

Hamilton

> Northland press/Flagstaff, Arizona 1979 Page 38 and 39 "Toxic parts

Entire

> plant especially the seeds" Poisoning: "The seeds, pressed cake, and

to a

> lesser extent the foliage ( but not the oil) are extremely toxic when

eaten.

> The poisonous principal is Ricin, a Photoxin. One to three seeds can

be

> fatal to a child, 2 to 8 to an adult. Handling or swallowing the seeds

may

> induce bronchial asthma and dermatitis, and the flowers may cause

respiratory

> problems in sensitive individuals."

> "SYMPTOMS; Burning of the mouth and throat, nausea, vomiting,

severe

> stomach pains bloody diarrhea, excessive thirst, prostration dullness

of

> vision, convulsions, kidney failure, and death in one to twelve days

after

> eating due to circulatory collapse."

 

 

Where does it say "it is toxic when burned"?

 

 

 

> Peace sister I did not mean to rile up the troops but I was at a

weeny

> roast as a small child and Was severely poisoned by the oleander stick

I was

> heating the weeny on and all of us got sick and one died. Poisoning is

a

> really awful way to die. I will take a bullet to the head any day.

> Carol

 

Peace to you, and Hare Krishna. I hope you never have to experience

either inglorious way to go. Prabhupada is not telling us to eat castor

beans or plants. There's no substitute for intelligence and being

careful. Anyone who can't burn castor oil should ask themselves what

_they_ are doing wrong before insinuating the founder-acarya may not know

what he's talking about.

 

Your servant,

 

Tulasi-priya dasi

[Guest guest]

>

> On 13 Dec 1999, DGilsen (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

>

> > In a message dated 12/12/99 11:50:10 AM US Mountain Standard Time,

> > tulasipriya (AT) com (DOT) org writes:

>

> > > On 11 Dec 1999, DGilsen (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

>

> > > the oil

> > > > they sell in India that Prabhupada said was the best may not have

> been

>

> > > Maybe what SP called castor oil is in India something different.

>

>

> > Perhaps but the castor beans growing in Mayapur are the exact same

> > in appearance as grow in my land, they may be different but they seem

> > identical in appearance to me.

>

>

> I've been doing some research and it seems that India is the major

> commercial producer and exporter of castor oil for the world.

>

>

>

> > > > pure oil we are producing. And at the time he lived he had never

> to my

> > > > knowledge been a farmer. I think sometimes while Prabhupada is an

> > > elevated

> > > > enlightened being some time, he was talking about things he had

> heard

> > > about

> > > > but had no actual hands on knowledge.

> > >

> > > I mente that SP had never made the lamp oil he spoke of !

> > > A first-class man learns by hearing. What do these editorial comments

> > > have to do with castor oil?

>

> > Because of who he was Devotees believe that

> > every word that fell from Srila Prabhupada mouth is gospel

>

>

> Some of us do feel that way, and I can personally say it's never steered

> me wrong, materially or spiritually.

>

>

> > and to question

> > any word he spoke is heresy.

>

>

>

> I don't have any problems with questioning, but you did not question. You

> made a solid statement with some serious implications attached. How do

> you know that Prabhupada never had any first hand experience with burning

> castor oil?

> I said that HE had to the best of my knowledge made any lamp oil from

castor oil.

>

> > So whenever I mention that I was unable to get

> > pure home grown caster bean oil to burn I did not want to be burned at

> the

> > stake by over zealous devotees. So either there is an additive or and

> > adulterant the castor oil

>

> That may be, so why not research what would make homemade castor oil

> burn properly before you say that it can't be done? For all we know, it

> could be something very simple, and we'll all be enriched for the

> knowledge.

>

>

> > that SP used because Three other devotees have told

> > me the same thing, they can't get castor oil to burn hardly at all.

>

>

> Faith, be it in the words of the aquaria, or simply confidence in one's

> own abilities, is the foundation for any endeavor. I managed to burn

> castor oil in a dipa lamp for over two hours last night, with no smoke,

> no fumes, no problem. It was quite nice, especially since I got a lot of

> satisfaction from knowing that Prabhupada was right.

> Fantastic what kind of oil did you use? was it pure? What is a Dipa

lamp? Where could I get one? I can make one if Someone describes it to me.

 

>

> > castor beans may come from different varieties of plants I grew both

> > varieties and the oil didn't burn form either pressing.

>

>

> Did it ever occur to you that maybe Prabhupada is right, perhaps you were

> doing something wrong?

> Of course, thetas why I ask if any one knew what we needed to do to get

the oil to burn!

>

> > > Although caster plants seem

> > > > to grow world wide from the tropics of Cuba to northern Germany and

> > > beyond.

> > > > I don't think we should cultivate the plant at all, sense it is

> such a

> > > deadly

> > > > poison!

>

> I can choose to accept your authority (when you say what people should or

> shouldn't do, you automatically appoint yourself as an authority), or I

> can accept Prabhupada instruction and have a wonderful, renewable

> energy source, which is also an effective laxative and skin emollient.

> It's also used as a treatment for tumors.

>

> Lots of beneficial substances can be poisonous, if you're ignorant of the

> dangers or just careless. Electricity, anyone? I'd be willing to bet more

> people have been killed in accidents involving kerosene lamps or electric

> light than by castor beans.

>

>

>

>

> >Only the oil pressed from the seed is not poisonous.

>

> If our founder-acarya told us to ingest any other part of the plant, I'd

> think twice about following that instruction. But all he said was to burn

> the oil in a lamp for light.

> My concern is, that the plant is so toxic that children and live stock

could eat it and die. I am not attacking SP BUT HOW TO GET THE CASTOR OIL TO

BURN! THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL OR RELIGIOUS ISSUE IT IS A TECHNICAL ISSUE.

As far as to weather the smoke is toxic I am not sure, but Oleander smoke and

poison Ivy, Poison oak and poison sumac smoke is toxic also I will do more

research. I haven't been able to find the book I originally read it in. I

do read more than the Gita. One self sufficiency book one for my soul (the

gita) the rest for my body.

>

>

> > > Castor oil is, when properly used, a traditional remedy for

> constipation.

> > > It has been used even for children (Fletcher's Castoria). You can

> take a

> > I know my mother used to dose us all the time with that stuff

> whether

> > we needed it or not!

>

> So maybe you're having some kind of prejudice against castor oil because

> of unpleasant childhood memories? Can't say I blame you!

>

>

> > > >It is toxic when burned and an

>

> > > I've never heard of this, what is the source of your information

> I can't find it but I Beleive it was the US Marine survival field manual.

> > One of the source's I have Is "Plants that poison" An illustrated guide

> for

> > the American Southwest By Ervin M. Schumutz and Lucretia Breazeale

> Hamilton

> > Northland press/Flagstaff, Arizona 1979 Page 38 and 39 "Toxic parts

> Entire

> > plant especially the seeds" Poisoning: "The seeds, pressed cake, and

> to a

> > lesser extent the foliage ( but not the oil) are extremely toxic when

> eaten.

> > The poisonous principal is Ricin, a Photoxin. One to three seeds can

> be

> > fatal to a child, 2 to 8 to an adult. Handling or swallowing the seeds

> may

> > induce bronchial asthma and dermatitis, and the flowers may cause

> respiratory Perhaps the smoke would also cause bronchial ashma.

> > problems in sensitive individuals."

> > "SYMPTOMS; Burning of the mouth and throat, nausea, vomiting,

> severe

> > stomach pains bloody diarrhea, excessive thirst, prostration dullness

> of

> > vision, convulsions, kidney failure, and death in one to twelve days

> after

> > eating due to circulatory collapse."

>

>

> Where does it say "it is toxic when burned"? All directly inhaled smoke

is bad for you. Cigarette any one?

>

>

>

> > Peace sister I did not mean to rile up the troops but I was at a

> weeny

> > roast as a small child and Was severely poisoned by the oleander stick

> I was

> > heating the weeny on and all of us got sick and one died. Poisoning is

> a

> > really awful way to die. I will take a bullet to the head any day.

> > Carol

>

> Peace to you, and Hare Krishna. I hope you never have to experience

> either inglorious way to go. Prabhupada is not telling us to eat castor

> beans or plants. There's no substitute for intelligence and being

> careful. Anyone who can't burn castor oil should ask themselves what

> _they_ are doing wrong before insinuating the founder-acarya may not know

> what he's talking about.

>

> Your servant,

>

> Tulasi-priya dasi

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

"WWW: Tulasi-priya (Devi Dasi) SDG (?)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2858344 from COM]

>

> On 14 Dec 1999, DGilsen (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

>

> > > My concern is, that the plant is so toxic that children and live

> stock

> > could eat it and die. I am not attacking SP BUT HOW TO GET THE CASTOR

> OIL TO

> > BURN! THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL OR RELIGIOUS ISSUE IT IS A TECHNICAL

> ISSUE.

>

> Prabhu, you made some comments that had to do with whether Prabhupada

> factually knew what he was talking about when he told us to burn castor

> oil. You are the one who made it an issue. If a person has doubts about

> things SP said, that's natural, but you expressed opinions based on

> insufficient knowledge and so I am taking it upon myself to question the

> validity of those opinions. Spirit is the basis of everything, including

> castor oil, so when you question the guru's authority on matters

> "apparently" material, you leave yourself open to doubting or denying

> everything he says, and then your spiritual life is finished.

 

> ...Your servant, Tulasi-priya dasi

 

It looks to me that this harsh critique is one way of making sure that the

spiritual life of a neophyte devotee is finished. What is your goal here,

Prabhu? Is your goal to help a neophyte devotee in her progression towards

Krsna consciousness -- or is it simply to make sure that you don't miss an

opportunity to win an argument?

 

There are certainly more gracious and productive ways of making your point

than this.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

[Guest guest]

Dear Mother Tulasi Priya Prabhu

 

PAMHO AGTSP

 

I was wondering if you might describle this lap you used to burn the castor

olil and perhaps tell us more of the oil you used. I am growing this spring

castor beans and intend to make oil. Srila Prabhupada instructed us here to

use this oil for lighting and that it would create a very healthy

atmosphere. Please share your experience in this regard as I have studied

the toxicity and it definiely is in the seed.

In india the oil is pressed and I have a book describing the method. I

intend to do it if Krishna allows this sinful soul to remain around long

enough. I will be very satisfied the day I accomplish this.

 

YS

Dvibhuja das

 

WWW: Tulasi-priya (Devi Dasi) SDG (?) <tulasipriya (AT) com (DOT) org>

COM: Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Practical

Varnasrama <Practical.Varnasrama (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; DGilsen (AT) aol (DOT) com <DGilsen (AT) aol (DOT) com>

Tuesday, December 14, 1999 7:00 AM

Re: Lamp Oil verses Castor oil and poisonious plants

 

 

>[Text 2857485 from COM]

>

>On 13 Dec 1999, DGilsen (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

>

>> In a message dated 12/12/99 11:50:10 AM US Mountain Standard Time,

>> tulasipriya (AT) com (DOT) org writes:

>

>> > On 11 Dec 1999, DGilsen (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

>

>> > the oil

>> > > they sell in India that Prabhupada said was the best may not have

>been

>

>> > Maybe what SP called castor oil is in India something different.

>

>

>> Perhaps but the castor beans growing in Mayapur are the exact same

>> in appearance as grow in my land, they may be different but they seem

>> identical in appearance to me.

>

>

>I've been doing some research and it seems that India is the major

>commercial producer and exporter of castor oil for the world.

>

>

>

>> > > pure oil we are producing. And at the time he lived he had never

>to my

>> > > knowledge been a farmer. I think sometimes while Prabhupada is an

>> > elevated

>> > > enlightened being some time, he was talking about things he had

>heard

>> > about

>> > > but had no actual hands on knowledge.

>> >

>> >

>> > A first-class man learns by hearing. What do these editorial comments

>> > have to do with castor oil?

>

>> Because of who he was Devotees believe that

>> every word that fell from Srila Prabhupada's mouth is gospel

>

>

>Some of us do feel that way, and I can personally say it's never steered

>me wrong, materially or spiritually.

>

>

>> and to question

>> any word he spoke is heresy.

>

>

>

>I don't have any problems with questioning, but you did not question. You

>made a solid statement with some serious implications attached. How do

>you know that Prabhupada never had any first hand experience with burning

>castor oil?

>

>

>> So whenever I mention that I was unable to get

>> pure home grown caster bean oil to burn I did not want to be burned at

>the

>> stake by over zealous devotees. So either there is an additive or and

>> adulterant the castor oil

>

>That may be, so why not research what would make home-made castor oil

>burn properly before you say that it can't be done? For all we know, it

>could be something very simple, and we'll all be enriched for the

>knowledge.

>

>

>> that SP used because Three other devotees have told

>> me the same thing, they can't get castor oil to burn hardly at all.

>

>

>Faith, be it in the words of the acarya, or simply confidence in one's

>own abilities, is the foundation for any endeavor. I managed to burn

>castor oil in a dipa lamp for over two hours last night, with no smoke,

>no fumes, no problem. It was quite nice, especially since I got a lot of

>satisfaction from knowing that Prabhupada was right.

>

>

>> castor beans may come from different varieties of plants I grew both

>> varieties and the oil didn't burn form either pressing.

>

>

>Did it ever occur to you that maybe Prabhupada is right, perhaps you were

>doing something wrong?

>

>

>> > Although caster plants seem

>> > > to grow world wide from the tropics of Cuba to northern Germany and

>> > beyond.

>> > > I don't think we should cultivate the plant at all, sense it is

>such a

>> > deadly

>> > > poison!

>

>I can choose to accept your authority (when you say what people should or

>shouldn't do, you automatically appoint yourself as an authority), or I

>can accept Prabhupada's instruction and have a wonderful, renewable

>energy source, which is also an effective laxative and skin emollient.

>It's also used as a treament for tumors.

>

>Lots of beneficial substances can be poisonous, if you're ignorant of the

>dangers or just careless. Electricity, anyone? I'd be willing to bet more

>people have been killed in accidents involving kerosene lamps or electric

>light than by castor beans.

>

>

>

>

>>Only the oil pressed from the seed is not poisonous.

>

>If our founder-acarya told us to ingest any other part of the plant, I'd

>think twice about following that instruction. But all he said was to burn

>the oil in a lamp for light.

>

>

>

>> > Castor oil is, when properly used, a traditional remedy for

>constipation.

>> > It has been used even for children (Fletcher's Castoria). You can

>take a

>> I know my mother used to dose us all the time with that stuff

>whether

>> we needed it or not!

>

>So maybe you're having some kind of prejudice against castor oil because

>of unpleasant childhood memories? Can't say I blame you!

>

>

>> > >It is toxic when burned and an

>

>> > I've never heard of this, what is the source of your information

>

>> One of the source's I have Is "Plants that poison" An illustrated guide

>for

>> the American Southwest By Ervin M. Schumutz and Lucretia Breazeale

>Hamilton

>> Northland press/Flagstaff, Arizona 1979 Page 38 and 39 "Toxic parts

>Entire

>> plant especially the seeds" Poisoning: "The seeds, pressed cake, and

>to a

>> lesser extent the foliage ( but not the oil) are extremely toxic when

>eaten.

>> The poisonous principal is Ricin, a Photoxin. One to three seeds can

>be

>> fatal to a child, 2 to 8 to an adult. Handling or swallowing the seeds

>may

>> induce bronchial asthma and dermatitis, and the flowers may cause

>respiratory

>> problems in sensitive individuals."

>> "SYMPTOMS; Burning of the mouth and throat, nausea, vomiting,

>severe

>> stomach pains bloody diarrhea, excessive thirst, prostration dullness

>of

>> vision, convulsions, kidney failure, and death in one to twelve days

>after

>> eating due to circulatory collapse."

>

>

>Where does it say "it is toxic when burned"?

>

>

>

>> Peace sister I did not mean to rile up the troops but I was at a

>weeny

>> roast as a small child and Was severely poisoned by the oleander stick

>I was

>> heating the weeny on and all of us got sick and one died. Poisoning is

>a

>> really awful way to die. I will take a bullet to the head any day.

>> Carol

>

>Peace to you, and Hare Krishna. I hope you never have to experience

>either inglorious way to go. Prabhupada is not telling us to eat castor

>beans or plants. There's no substitute for intelligence and being

>careful. Anyone who can't burn castor oil should ask themselves what

>_they_ are doing wrong before insinuating the founder-acarya may not know

>what he's talking about.

>

>Your servant,

>

>Tulasi-priya dasi

>

[Guest guest]

On 14 Dec 1999, DGilsen (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

 

 

> > > > > pure oil we are producing. And at the time he lived he had

never

> > to my

> > > > > knowledge been a farmer. I think sometimes while Prabhupada is

an

> > > > elevated

> > > > > enlightened being some time, he was talking about things he had

> > heard

> > > > about

> > > > > but had no actual hands on knowledge.

> > > >

> > > > I mente that SP had never made the lamp oil he spoke of !

 

 

You don't know that for a fact. Besides that, he was not an "elevated and

enlightened being some time" as you put it, but _all_ the time. And as

far as I am concerned, no one is "materially" more intelligent than he.

So again, what do your statements about SP's hands-on knowledge (or his

supposed lack of it) have to do with you or anyone else not being able to

burn castor oil? I would really like to know the answer to that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

> > > > A first-class man learns by hearing. What do these editorial

comments

> > > > have to do with castor oil?

> >

> > > Because of who he was Devotees believe that

> > > every word that fell from Srila Prabhupada mouth is gospel

 

 

Again, what does this comment have to do with castor oil?

 

 

 

 

> >

> > > and to question

> > > any word he spoke is heresy.

 

 

 

 

> > I don't have any problems with questioning, but you did not question.

You

> > made a solid statement with some serious implications attached. How

do

> > you know that Prabhupada never had any first hand experience with

burning

> > castor oil?

 

 

> > I said that HE had to the best of my knowledge made any lamp oil

from

> castor oil.

 

 

On what do you base that assumption? What knowledge is that statement

referring to?

 

 

 

> >

> > > So whenever I mention that I was unable to get

> > > pure home grown caster bean oil to burn I did not want to be

burned at

> > the

> > > stake by over zealous devotees. So either there is an additive or

and

> > > adulterant the castor oil

> >

> > That may be, so why not research what would make homemade castor oil

> > burn properly before you say that it can't be done? For all we know,

it

> > could be something very simple, and we'll all be enriched for the

> > knowledge.

> > > Three other devotees have told

> > > me the same thing, they can't get castor oil to burn hardly at

all.

 

 

> > Faith, be it in the words of the aquaria, or simply confidence in

one's

> > own abilities, is the foundation for any endeavor. I managed to burn

> > castor oil in a dipa lamp for over two hours last night, with no

smoke,

> > no fumes, no problem. It was quite nice, especially since I got a

lot of

> > satisfaction from knowing that Prabhupada was right.

 

 

 

 

> > Fantastic what kind of oil did you use? was it pure? What is a

Dipa

> lamp? Where could I get one? I can make one if Someone describes it

to me.

 

 

All you need is a very shallow dish or saucer. I suppose it needs to be

heat proof. Soak the wick first, let about a half inch hang off the edge

of the dish and light it. Keep the dish full enough of oil so that the

flame doesn't need to travel down the wick into the dish in order to keep

burning. I've seen dipas made of clay and metal, but I just used a metal

saucer. My oil was pure cosmetic grade.

 

 

 

 

 

>

> >

> > > castor beans may come from different varieties of plants I grew

both

> > > varieties and the oil didn't burn form either pressing.

> >

> >

> > Did it ever occur to you that maybe Prabhupada is right, perhaps you

were

> > doing something wrong?

> > Of course, thetas why I ask if any one knew what we needed to do to

get

> the oil to burn!

 

 

 

Then why are you making comments about whether or not he has first-hand

knowledge about something?

 

 

 

 

> > >Only the oil pressed from the seed is not poisonous.

 

> > My concern is, that the plant is so toxic that children and live

stock

> could eat it and die. I am not attacking SP BUT HOW TO GET THE CASTOR

OIL TO

> BURN! THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL OR RELIGIOUS ISSUE IT IS A TECHNICAL

ISSUE.

 

 

Prabhu, you made some comments that had to do with whether Prabhupada

factually knew what he was talking about when he told us to burn castor

oil. You are the one who made it an issue. If a person has doubts about

things SP said, that's natural, but you expressed opinions based on

insufficient knowledge and so I am taking it upon myself to question the

validity of those opinions. Spirit is the basis of everything, including

castor oil, so when you question the guru's authority on matters

"apparently" material, you leave yourself open to doubting or denying

everything he says, and then your spiritual life is finished.

 

 

> As far as to weather the smoke is toxic I am not sure, but Oleander

smoke and

 

 

 

 

But you definitively stated it was toxic in your last post. Why did you

do that?

 

 

> >

> > > > >It is toxic when burned and an

> >

> > > > I've never heard of this, what is the source of your

information

> > I can't find it but I Beleive it was the US Marine survival field

manual.

 

 

 

 

> >Handling or swallowing the seeds

> > may

> > > induce bronchial asthma and dermatitis, and the flowers may cause

> > respiratory

 

 

> Perhaps the smoke would also cause bronchial ashma.

 

 

 

And perhaps it wouldn't.

 

 

 

 

> > > problems in sensitive individuals."

> > > "SYMPTOMS; Burning of the mouth and throat, nausea, vomiting,

> > severe

> > > stomach pains bloody diarrhea, excessive thirst, prostration

dullness

> > of

> > > vision, convulsions, kidney failure, and death in one to twelve

days

 

 

 

> > Where does it say "it is toxic when burned"?

 

 

> All directly inhaled smoke

> is bad for you. Cigarette any one?

 

 

As I said before, when I burned the oil, there was no smoke (which

generally has to to with the size of the wick——the bigger the wick, the

smokier the flame.), but even if there were some, I wouldn't place my

nose above the lamp and "directly" inhale the smoke. I don't recommend

rolling and smoking any part of the plant either.

 

Please excuse me if I have said anything to offend you, but I am getting

more than a little fatigued and frustrated from hearing people airing

their doubts about Prabhupada's instructions in public. It's really the

sort of thing which should be done in a very submissive and humble

manner, privately, and in confidence revealed to a Vaisnava who has

strong faith in SP and can explain things in a way that bolsters faith.

 

Most of the time, I suspect such "open" discussions are simply attempts

to discredit SP on some small point so that we can then feel free to

disregard his instructions on more important issues. ("He was wrong about

castor oil/sex/the moon/the sun . . ." [and so on, ad nauseaum] "so what

else is he wrong about?")

 

That's not disciple, that's dilettante.

 

Anyone who wants to play that game has got the whole material world and

8,400,000 species of life to play in.

 

 

 

 

 

Your servant, Tulasi-priya dasi

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Please excuse me if I have said anything to offend you, but I am getting

> more than a little fatigued and frustrated from hearing people airing

> their doubts about Prabhupada's instructions in public. It's really the

> sort of thing which should be done in a very submissive and humble

> manner, privately, and in confidence revealed to a Vaisnava who has

> strong faith in SP and can explain things in a way that bolsters faith.

 

COM is private. Joe Websurfer can't access it.

 

>

>

> Most of the time, I suspect such "open" discussions are simply attempts

> to discredit SP on some small point so that we can then feel free to

> disregard his instructions on more important issues. ("He was wrong about

> castor oil/sex/the moon/the sun . . ." [and so on, ad nauseaum] "so what

> else is he wrong about?")

>

> That's not disciple, that's dilettante.

 

That is one way to see it. Another is that not every disagreement has to be

automatically construed as an attempt to discredit. It could simply be an

effort to make Krsna consciousness inclusive rather than exclusive. Krsna

consciousness is not dependent on whether castor oil can be burned or not.

Srila Prabhupada was not God. He was a man. To think it is necessary for

him to be correct all the time about all material things is to judge him by a

material standard. If he was always right, faith doesn't even enter into

it. It would require zero faith to accept everything if it was always

correct. The real test of faith is to see an apparent material

inconsistency and not have it disturb you, and still be able to accept him

as a spiritual teacher.

[Guest guest]

Gopinatha Acarya has successfully burnt castor

> oil, he BOUGHT.If you can burn bought castor oil, then what are we doing

> wrong in the refinement that makes the home-made stuff unburnable?

> Where in India do they burn castor oil for lighting and how do they refine

> it there?

 

I also succesfully used the castor oil I bought to light a dipa lamp, it

works nicely. It will not work however in a larger 'hurricane' lamp. My

theory for this is that either the wick in such lamps is too tight, or the

oil is too thick to rise up from the well to the burning end at a rate

sufficient to feed the flame.

 

When I tried it in my lamp, I first soaked the wick in the oil. At first it

burned nicely but within a minute or two the flame died. I attributed that

to a lack of oil at the burning end of the wick.

 

In a dipa, the flame is never more than a few millimeters from the oil, and

the wick can be very porous and soft, like twisted cotton.

 

So the problem for me is to make a light that one can take outside on a

windy night, if the cow is having some trouble, or for a million other

reasons. A light that will not easily spill the fuel, and can be carried

without too much care and attention.

 

> What particular type of castor oil plant do they use- a local strain?

 

It maybe that that the oil is thinner for use in lamps, or maybe another

type is used, or maybe a different wick is needed. It seems no one has ready

answers, and that the problem needs to be tackled on a practical level.

 

YS Samba das