Guest guest Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Hare Krishna, There were two main points in that article (also posted on Dipika). They are easily blended and positively support each other. One was that the land and the cows are the pariphinellia of the deity. Temple's and congregational devotees like to have the nicest deity worship. If a temple has land and cows (or unproductive land and facility for cows) and are not engaging them properly in their respective dharma/services (i.e. cows providing fresh milk/milk products and the bulls/oxen being trained to help the earth become productive in supplying grains and vegitables for the deities if not the whole community and beyond (if there is excess)) they should understand that this is a lesser standard of deity worship; it's not a very high standard regardless of the amount of opulence on the actual altar. Of course this would not apply to a city temple with no land or facility. To have land and facility for cows (or to actually have the cows) and to let them sit without engagement is like having nice silver cups, plates, etc. gathering dust in the cupboard while using disposable paper plates and plastic spoons on the altar out of sheer convenience and lazyness. It is offensive to not make a plan to utilize the land and cows properly in the service of the lord and instead continue to buy milk and produce from the city because it is more convenient for the worshipper(s). It would be like kicking the pujari out of the temple and having a non-devotee do the service because it is cheaper and eaier to support the non-devotee (just get him some beer). The other point in that article that supports the above view (again, they both compliment each other) was that engaging the cows and land in the service of the deity/Krishna is actually the service of brahmanas, not vaisyas. A vaisya would engage the cows and land in his or her own service in an attempt to become prosperous, for economic develompent (vaisyas are the marchantile class after all). If they were into karma-yoga, they might choose to offer some of the profit/produce to the temple or they may just choose to offer the results to their home deity. However, when a vaisya or ksatria donates some of their cows and land to the brahmanas (or a brahmana community as we find ISKCON to be), what do the brahmanas do with the donation? Do they simply find the next vaisya and sell them off to be free of the burden and reap some profit themselves (NOTE: We do find in sastra that brahmanas sometimes abandon gold and golden utensils by the side of the road to be free of such a burden - but we don't see *that* in our society, do we)? Anyway, actual brahmanas would certainly use such a gift in the Lord's service (and ksatrias, [leaders/managers/GBC's] would see that they have the facility to do so). We can see examples of this sort of understanding in the goshallas of Nathadvara which are used exclusively in the worship of the original Gopal deity of Govardhana (Srila Madhavendra Puri's little friend). It's no wonder that Gopal (the deity, not me) switched sampradayas. Anyway, that's my opinion. I believe that if ISKCON views or attempts cow protection, as a vaisya/brahminical society and the focus is on making the land and cows into a profitable business, it will, due to time, place, and circumstances (reality), be very uninspiring. It would be very difficult to make it profitable by Kali Yuga standards. Of course, we wouldn't want to execute this service in such a way that it's overly *unprofitable* either (such is the standard today with the cows/land being left idle and only taking from the deity). However, if, as a temple/community, the cows and land are used in the service of the temple and deities, they can become a great asset the that community and serve to inspire those who live outside of the temple community to follow. Thus we wouls have brahmanas teaching vaisyas how to do their dharma (we would have to figure out how to do this first though - how can we expect vaisyas to do this of brahmanas can't even figure it out???) The temple is naturally a place of education for the surrounding community (as is our movement). I believe that, rather than having individual householders (trying to be vaisyas) attempting to make a farm on their own home, there first should be some sort of co-op, community effort, preferrrably surrounding the temple and deities - thus keeping them and their pleasure first and formost in the center of the opertational goals. This sort of thinking may also lead so-called "brahminically inclined" devotees to take a more active role in protecting the cows and advancing this portion of Srila Prabhupada's mission (it would make them feel like better brahmanas). People who like to think of themselves as brahmanas (but may not be yet) should understand that it's our duty to do the needful, teach the benefits of engaging the cows and land in the service of Krishna (again if the community has land and cows sitting ilde), or, in the least, increase the standard of local deity worship by utilizing what we have (cows and land) in helping them fulfill their potential. Just some thoughts. Does anyone else have any ideas about it being the duty of brahmanas (and brahama movements) to first perfect and then teach cow proection to the people of this age? How about the deity thing? I had this realization while I was living in Alachua and they were considering never breeding again and using the land for a soccer field. Eager for your thoughts, Gopal Das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 >It would be like kicking the pujari out > of the temple and having a non-devotee do the service because it is cheaper and > eaier to support the non-devotee (just get him some beer). > Or a green card. > > Does anyone else have any ideas about it being the duty of brahmanas (and > brahama movements) to first perfect and then teach cow proection to the people > of this age? > We have talked in the past about the idea of having 2 fast days a month where anyone aspiring to be a brahmana would only take prasada raised by devotees. If you don't have anything, drink water. But no limit on what could be taken if devotee raised. That would create some incentive to facilitate the process, and create a premium market for devotees who are producing. > How about the deity thing? I had this realization while I was living in Alachua > and they were considering never breeding again and using the land for a soccer > field. I of course have abandoned all varieites of religiosity and taken up soccer as my spiritual quest, so I am sure the small amount of land a soccer field would take up would be compatibile with cow protection. A soccer field is not much over an acre. We could ahve small sided teams and take up even less area, like 7v7 instead of 11v11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 The black-and-white cow would be the referee then? -------------------- I of course have abandoned all varieites of religiosity and taken up soccer as my spiritual quest, so I am sure the small amount of land a soccer field would take up would be compatibile with cow protection. A soccer field is not much over an acre. We could ahve small sided teams and take up even less area, like 7v7 instead of 11v11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 > The black-and-white cow would be the referee then? The team mascot. It takes 4 classes of men to have a soccer match. Referee = ksatriya Coach = brahmana Player = vaisya Groundskeepers, ball manufacturers etc =sudra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 > Between Madhava Gosh Prabhu and Gopal, I think ISKCON could save the world > through sheer slapstick! > > > > Ok, back to business ... My guru used to say, "Chant Hare Krsna and be happy" Humor IS business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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