Protection Farms -- quality of milk over time

[Guest guest]

New Talavan wrote:

 

> > Mark wrote:

> >

> > I am confused by your math. The new calves would not all be female so they

> > could not replace the female cows. I assume therefore that there are

> > actually six animals born of which three are female. Also, since your

> three

> > cows are milking for four years and the heifers are generally not bred

> until

> > they are 3 years old, how can you add 3 calves each year? I would like to

> > see a a spreadsheet showing the actual development of the herd over time.

> I

> > made my own (see attached). By my calculation, based on the following:

> >

> > a) Start with 3 cows (3 years old), 2 heifers, 1 bull calf, 1 bull

> > b) Breed heifers when they are 3 years old

> > c) Breed milking cows every 5th year (4 year lactation)

> > d) retire cows after 12 years

> > e) cows die after 20 years

>

> Comment:

> Assumptions:

> 1. That we have proper (willing to take on the responsibility) well trained

> persons (who have worked with animals on a day to day basis for at least

> three years and who have shown they are capable) to act as milkers and

> teamsters to care for the animals produced.

> 2. We are dealing with a breed of cow that matures at six years. Bos taurus

> breeds mature at this age, Bos indicus and its first generation crosses do

> not mature until nine years.

> 3. That the breed we are dealing with has a sex ratio of 1::1. Young bulls

> give a ratio 6 females :: 1 male, as the bull reaches maturity the ratio

> approaches 1::1. This fits the Bos taurus breeds the Bos indicus and first

> generation crosses have a ratio of male to female of 3:1.

 

>

> 4. That the breed in question is capable, given the proper feeding of forage

> from highly productive land, of milking for a lactation period of four

> years.

 

I'd like to comment on this last issue. In my experience, it is quite common

that cows do not give much milk after 18 months. To find a cow who will

continue to give milk for 4 years seems unusual in my experience.

 

Three factors should be considered:

 

A. Breed -- Large taurean breeds, such as Brown Swiss and Holstein, may give

more milk for a much longer period than smaller breeds, especially some of the

smaller Indica breeds, but also other smaller taurean breeds such as Gurnsey

and

milking Devons.

 

B. Quantity of Milk Yield over Tme: Generally cows give a lot when they are

first fresh and much less when they have been milking for a long time. Once we

had a cow named Luglu who gave me 10 gallons of milk in one day at Gita-nagari.

About a year later, I think she was giving only about 3 gallons a day. Milk

increases on something like fresh alfalfa pasture and decreases on drier feed,

such as hay.

 

C. Quality of Milk over Time: Generally the milk cows give earlier in the

lactation is better than what they give later in lactation. I was milking

Prema

Vivhala for two years, but after about a year, devotees in the kitchen informed

me that her milk was no longer suitable for hot milk, but could only be used

for

burfi or curd.

 

So these are some important variables to be factored in to this kind of

consideration.

 

I'd be interested if others have had similar experiences.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

[Guest guest]

Since 1993 I have been keeping detailed records of the milk yields of the

cows at bhaktivedaanta manor. These records show that a cow in most cases

can produce significant milk for easily 3 years and more.

 

It is known that the yield does drop practically month by month and

especially in the winter season. Howeever as we maintain all our cows in any

circumstance it seams to make some seense to allow the cows to continue

giving milk as long as they can.

 

We had a cow that gave milk for 8 years and was giving 5 litres per day in

its last year. We had a couple of cows that milked into their sixth year.

One of them may still have been milking a further two years but we dried her

up because we thought she was going to have a calf but in the end didn't.

 

Accepting that the quality may be a little different after a few years as

the milk will be part of the churn it will be inconsequential.

 

just to share some more experiences

 

 

ys syam

[Guest guest]

"Syamasundara (das) (Bhaktivedanta Manor - UK)" wrote:

 

> Since 1993 I have been keeping detailed records of the milk yields of the

> cows at bhaktivedaanta manor. These records show that a cow in most cases

> can produce significant milk for easily 3 years and more.

>

> It is known that the yield does drop practically month by month and

> especially in the winter season. Howeever as we maintain all our cows in any

> circumstance it seams to make some seense to allow the cows to continue

> giving milk as long as they can.

>

> We had a cow that gave milk for 8 years and was giving 5 litres per day in

> its last year. We had a couple of cows that milked into their sixth year.

> One of them may still have been milking a further two years but we dried her

> up because we thought she was going to have a calf but in the end didn't.

>

> Accepting that the quality may be a little different after a few years as

> the milk will be part of the churn it will be inconsequential.

>

> just to share some more experiences

>

> ys syam

 

This is informative. I know that the last I heard, Visaka cow at Gita-nagari

(Brown Swiss) is still producing at least 3 gallons after 6 years, but I

considered that exceptional.

 

I was wondering what breeds you milk at Bhaktivedanta Manor -- do you have

smaller taurean breeds like Jersey or milking Devons? Also, I have heard that

the small Indian breeds generally don't give milk after 12-18 months. Do you

have direct experience with them? Do you think that is the nature of the

breed, or is it rather the poor quality of feed and even housing conditions

[e.g., too much stress because of overcrowding and not enough good grazing

opportunity]?

 

I wonder if you could comment on these?

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

[Guest guest]

The eight year lactation was from a pure holstein freisan

The two at six years were also pure holstein freisan. i was just checking

today my records and in most cases you can get 4 years (plus) of milking

from one calf.

 

The herd base is freisan but over the past 7 years we impregnate with a

european duel purpose breed called Meusse-rhine-issel. Visually our herd is

a mixture of black and whites, brown and whites and whites. The breed is

quite large. a bit heavier than holstein but a bit shorter and stockier.

 

Regarding the delima of short lactations in India. The devotees I spoke to

their in India say it is a matter of the nature of Indian cows. They do not

give along lactation sometimes only as long as 8 months, even less. i think

even the figure of 18 months would be a very rare cow.

 

The generl diet throughout the north of India is straw and grass chopped.

the main part of it being straw. I do not know if the lactation would

increase if they had better or more green grass.

 

Perhaps Rohita may know more.

 

ys syam

[Guest guest]

-

Syamasundara (das) (Bhaktivedanta Manor - UK) <Syamasundara (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Noma T. Petroff <npetroff (AT) bowdoin (DOT) edu>; Cow (Protection and related

issues) <Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Friday, March 16, 2001 12:32 PM

Re: Protection Farms -- quality of milk over time

 

 

> The eight year lactation was from a pure holstein freisan

> The two at six years were also pure holstein freisan. i was just checking

> today my records and in most cases you can get 4 years (plus) of milking

> from one calf.

>

Comment:

I believe this maybe true for the Swiss, based on what Hare Krsna dasi has

said about the cows in Gita Nagari (remember however this herd is made up of

animals comming from a commercial herd and the quality was maintained by

breeding wisely by the devotees who were there in the seventies and

eighties). There is very little about long lactations in the scientific

journals so we are exploring or rather re-exploring what was common

knowledge in the eighteen hundreds.

 

The larger frame Guernseys may also be able to meet this standard. We once

had a large Guernsey here, Mahadevi, she calved just after I arrived and

died a couple of years later, she was I believe about twelve. That year I

arrived (1976), she give birth to a calf that weighted 100 lb. and was

giving 6 gallons in the morning and 4 in the evening about a month into her

lactation. She had a bout with mastitis prior to that and was milking on

three quarters, one heavily scarred inside. We had to dry her up after about

ten months, because of problems with mastitis.

 

> The herd base is freisan but over the past 7 years we impregnate with a

> european duel purpose breed called Meusse-rhine-issel. Visually our herd

is

> a mixture of black and whites, brown and whites and whites. The breed is

> quite large. a bit heavier than holstein but a bit shorter and stockier.

 

Comment:

I believe they are related to the Dutch Pied and the Munster (German), the

size coming from the Munster.

 

Also diet, an animal can not show its potential unless it has good quality

forage, whether grass, silage, etc.. We here in New Talavan are on marginal

land, no fertilization program (green manure, chemical etc.) gives stocking

rate of 10 acres per cow (1,000 lb animal) per season with perennial grasses

(for us the is May thru October). What feeding system do you have at the

Manor, how long is the grazing season and is it annuals or perennials you

are grazing?

>

> Regarding the delima of short lactations in India. The devotees I spoke to

> their in India say it is a matter of the nature of Indian cows. They do

not

> give along lactation sometimes only as long as 8 months, even less. i

think

> even the figure of 18 months would be a very rare cow.

 

Comment:

The majority of Indian breeds are poor milkers, some only giving enough to

feed their calf (Killnar, Nellore etc.) the best milking breeds are

concentrated in the northwest. The top milking breeds are the Sindhi, Gyr

and Sahwali. These three breeds do not exceed 3,000 litres and a fat content

similar to the Guernseys, with about a lactation of a year. When these

animals have been brought to Australia and Brazil they grow larger in size

and increase in production. There are three new breeds (Girolando,

Australian Sahwali Friesland (ASF) and the Australian Milking Zebu (AMZ),

which carry these bloodlines and are the result of crosses with the European

Dairy breeds

 

Most Indian breeds are highly specialized draft animals, for example the

selection of breeding stock in the Killnar of Maharastra is based on the

animal beginnning at a slow run and maintaining that pace for up towards 6.2

miles (ten kilometres). These animals are used to take carts to market,

rarely are they used for field work. They are the size of a small Jersey not

very deep in the barrel, with long legs and large head. They are off white

in colour with orange horns and hoofs, nose is black.

 

Another breed, the Dangi is used in hilly land with heavy black soils where

it rains heavily. They are about the size of a large Swiss but with shorter

legs, hugh feet and a small head. These animals have special sweat glands in

their skin that produces an oil that keeps them dry (similar to a duck).

They have to be bathed daily same as water buffalo, but they will work were

no other animal can. When the fields are flooded from the monsoon rains they

are taken out to work the soil using crude single blade ploughs. The animals

ability to work in a heavy rain and not being bothered by heavy mucky soil

helps their owners get in rice crops before the land is dry enough to take

in another team. In their geographic region they may never be replaced by

the tractor, unless they figure out someway to work the land with hoover

craft! They are also used for logging and can move on level terrain at about

3 miles and hour for 24 miles.

 

>From what I have seen most of the animals in Mayapur appear to be of the

European Holstein Friesland breeding but are unable to produce due to a

shortage of feed and grazing land. Vrndavan possess a more Indian type

(Harana and related breeds) of animal showing a little mixture of Holstein

and Jersey, they also have a poor quality of feed with not much land for

grazing. Ahmedabad have some Kankrej (Indian Padayatra party have animals of

this type) and Gyr (called bubble heads in Texas) animals with a slightly

better feed situation.

>

> The generl diet throughout the north of India is straw and grass chopped.

> the main part of it being straw. I do not know if the lactation would

> increase if they had better or more green grass.

 

Comment:

Very little grazing is done except by the nomadic peoples of Gujarat, most

North Indians feed their cows by harvesting rice straw by hand and feeding

it in bunkers. What grazing they get is mainly 'darba' (second most sacred

grass after kusa) in the west it's called bermuda and is only available for

a few months after rainly season. I have been there between January and June

but never saw grass higher than four inches even in the areas where

livestock was restricted from! I am not familar what happens south of line

running from Southern Maharastra to Calcutta. The best grazing land appeared

to be south of Mumbai along the coast, this is Killnar country but some

Sindhi and Gyr are found in this area.

ys, Rohita dasa

[Guest guest]

Regarding the question of what and how we feed the cows at Bhaktivedanta

Manor.

 

 

The cows have a very long grazing period of usually March through to xmas

time (as long as the land holds-very wet). If the grass is not doing very

well then we will supplement with hay so in effect they can graze as they

want and then fill up on hay if they want.

 

The milking cows are given vegetables and grain according to yield (about

..4kg per litre). Working oxen are also given grain according to work.

Usually about 1,5 kg each for half a days work. Growing calves are given

grains when they are ready as well as vegetables.

 

At xmas or thereabouts the cows are brought in and are winter housed.

Usually we give good hay to all the cows (so far most of this hay has been

bought in and a bit made), the oxen are usually fed with Barley straw and

the working oxen supplemented with hay and of course their grains.

 

All the grass fields are permanent pasture or hay making fields.

 

This year we are able to attempt to grow all the hay that the cows need,

about 30 acres. Straw will be bought in as usual. Are intention is that as

we are growing our own hay we will give all the animals hay in the winter.

 

ys syam